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Grady
04-14-2004, 12:34 PM
I confess that Iím very disappointed that with the popularity and success of Ring Ten Ball,
I havenít received even one dayís work. The concept of ring games wasnít my creation but Greg Sullivan and I came up with a way to make it really shine. Now Charlie Williams and his UPA friends are advertising for sponsors for a Florida ring game. I just made a few phone calls to quality people and raised $60,000 for two ring games.
When several room owners and assorted folks asked me for everything I had on ring games I cheerfully and freely gave them all that I had. As I did this I would mention that I do awfully reasonable exhibitions and clinics and I could also take care of their particular ring game. Then, again, not a single dayís work. I donít want to make a crusade or issue out of this. It just hurts that when my services and products are the best on the market I get overlooked.
Grady

ceebee
04-14-2004, 12:56 PM
Grady, in my earlier days, the older Players were revered for their achievements & most of all their knowledge. Today is different. Since you aren't in the "League of Extroadinary Gentlemen" anymore... you may not garner as much respect as you once did.

It's a new world we live in, it's not necessarily nicer. Maybe you should setup a Website for your Consulting Services & do business in a business way, instead of the "good ol' Boy" way.

I'm a 62 year old goat, that's a good Player (8Ball, 9Ball, One Pocket, Snooker & Golf)) & an Instructor. Do I get any respect at my local Pool Room... Hell No.

The owner/manager is 28 & the 2 best players (9-10 Speeds) are in his peer group. Most of the time, he doesn't even say hello to me. It's just the way things are anymore...
cb

Popcorn
04-14-2004, 01:01 PM
It is tough to lay claim to the ring game. I did ring game tournaments 25 years ago. It may have been even a little better format then you are doing. We had 16 players on four tables with four players on each table. I used poker chips for the money and the bet went up every two hour. We played money on the 5 and 9 and the player that busted the game won. On day two the four winners were put on one table and played till someone won. it was not winner take all but was very top heavy money wise, but at least the last guy got something. When I had these tournaments the place would be packed. I was told by many spectators they were the best tournaments they had ever watched. Also, on day one, players that went bust could buy back in once pumping up the pot. Any pool room can run tournaments like these and they won't believe how much fun they are.

daviddjmp
04-14-2004, 01:02 PM
Grady-

It perhaps is time to start charging for your consulting services and materials. You have spent your whole career making this industry better and playing killer pool as well (I have some of your Accu-Stats Straight Pool Matches). I am not a professional (far from it) by I love the game and just keeping a local pool hall alive seems like a tough business. That being said, there is no reason why anyone with that type of business should not be willing to pay for your experience and expertise-

ace895
04-14-2004, 01:05 PM
I have the utmost respect for you and your career Grady. I have seen you play a few times and your legend speaks for itself. However, i have to agree with the gentleman from Oklahoma. Pool is changing. The older crowd is not getting the reverance that it used and the young crowd is looking for youthful sponsors, workers, players, etc... If I had to pick a person to host a Ring Game type tourney, I might look to you unless I wanted cross-cultural exposure. Most people, even casual players, wont know the Grady Mathews name. They only know the guys they see on ESPN, Willie Mosconi, and Steve Mizerak just to name it few. It is a shame however.

Chris Cass
04-14-2004, 01:14 PM
Hi grady,

Welcome to the new generation. That's messed up for sure. It's them out for themselves and forget the old ways of respect and paying for those who paid their dues. One day they'll all be in the same position and guess what? They won't like it one bit. Hang in there Grady, they'll need you one day for sure. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

A bit off subject but when I was at Valley Forge I seen the next generation shooting balls 90 miles an hr in. They let whitey go and luckly they never paid for it. One guy asked, well, what do you think of that? I said, they haven't a clue. They also couldn't put whitey on a quarter if they wanted. They also took the game to a level that I've never seen. It was nothing short of sickening. It's like they've never seen it shot in a way that the beauty of position play was like music. I told one kid, "Your position play was excellent." He replied, "Thank you." In front of everyone I replied, "Sorry, I was only kidding." Everyone was dieing of laughter and the free wheeling kid turned beat red. I can see this kid losing every dime he had. The sad thing was he really thought he was the [censored].

Regards,

C.C.~~never forgets the old school kids.

recoveryjones
04-14-2004, 01:29 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Grady:</font><hr> I confess that Iím very disappointed that with the popularity and success of Ring Ten Ball,
I havenít received even one dayís work. The concept of ring games wasnít my creation but Greg Sullivan and I came up with a way to make it really shine. Now Charlie Williams and his UPA friends are advertising for sponsors for a Florida ring game. I just made a few phone calls to quality people and raised $60,000 for two ring games.
When several room owners and assorted folks asked me for everything I had on ring games I cheerfully and freely gave them all that I had. As I did this I would mention that I do awfully reasonable exhibitions and clinics and I could also take care of their particular ring game. Then, again, not a single dayís work. I donít want to make a crusade or issue out of this. It just hurts that when my services and products are the best on the market I get overlooked.
Grady <hr /></blockquote>

Hi Grady, I own four of your videos and I must say that you, are an unbelievable shot maker. Your knowledge of the game is outstanding and your videos are among the best, no question.From what I've seen on the four videos I own, I'd love to see you put on an exibition or a clinic, that is for sure.When you say your services and products are the best on the market, I sincerley believe, you speak the truth.

If I could afford it I love to spend a week or so taking lessons from you.You truly are "The Professer."

As far as todays society goes, SOMETIMES there's no respect given, when respect is due.People will scan you for information they can get and then push you by the wayside.To me, that's rather unfortunate.RJ

Wally_in_Cincy
04-14-2004, 01:32 PM
Grady,

That sucks. I can say first-hand that you do very worthwhile and entertaining clinics and exhibitions.

Wally in Cincy

eg8r
04-14-2004, 02:11 PM
I have not read any of the other posts, but I thought I would comment first. Can anyone ever remember a time when Grady came to this board to tell us about how WELL something was going, other than to sell himself? This gets real old. I am growing weary of the cries from Grady, and this probably does not mean much at all, but it gets old to only hear negative stuff from him. Who cares if the UPA decides to do a ring game and not ask Grady for help or services? Is a ring game something ONLY Grady can run successfully?

I was wondering why Grady only mentions the 2 good ring games that happened, but he does not mention the one that never materialized after being advertised on the net and kept viewers sitting by their computers waiting for it to happen? No mention at all that it was not going to happen, is the best services on the market?

I would rather Grady quit worrying about what is happening everywhere else. Would it be so bad for Grady to come on the board once in awhile and tell us of some of the good happening in pool?

eg8r &lt;~~~am I the only one that feels this way

mike_in_iowa
04-14-2004, 02:26 PM
wow what a great post. If you listen to Grady you would think that he invented the ring game. Does he think he is the only one who can run the game? What a joke.
Ring games have been around forever. If his is special he should have trademarked it or copyrighted or whatever else he could have done. Somehow I do not think this was possible.
Now let me say I do respect Grady. I too have 3-4 of his videos and I have bought his book and I have a large Accu-stats library with tapes that are more enjoyable with his voice. But the idea that the public owes him something is getting old. Grady loves to get on the boards and tell how he deserved this and that and how he didn't get his fair shake. Does anybody remember the open telecast, how about the accu-stats dismissal? Nobody likes a complainer.

mike in iowa

Ralph S.
04-14-2004, 06:39 PM
I see both positive and negative in your post Grady. I understand that you may feel a little jilted after having enormous success with the first two ring games at DCC. It seems that you feel that CW is trying to mimmick the popularity of the events by you and Greg at DCC.

While you do have the credentials of a truly great player and instructor and almost limitless knowledge of the game, it does seem that you mainly seem to post when Grady is not getting what Grady wants. Have you considered calling Charlie and telling him that you already have established connections and that maybe the two of you could work together on this. Should you present yourself to him and offer your assistance, it would make you look like the good guy and could possibly help your ventures as well as Charlie's ventures at the same time.

It seems that there might be some animosity between you and CW. Infighting and animosity led to the demise of mens pool in the past. Does anyone want to see this repeated. I sure don't.

cueball1950
04-14-2004, 06:41 PM
I guess i do have to agree with several people on here. Alot of the posts on here by him are when he degrades something or someone. Grady, YOU HAVE A VAST WEALTH OF KNOWLEDGE THAT PEOPLE WOULD LOVE FOR YOU TO SHARE ON HERE.Please do not come on here just to bash someone or something else. You bashed the Joss Tour and Mike Zuglan, not only on here and other boards, but also in your book. You bashed accustats about not doing the live telecast even though they announced who their commentators would be weeks in advance. Did you not read the press releases to see that. Alot of people on here have a great deal of respect for you Grady and for your vast knowledge. Please do this for your fans and for yourself, Try to be more helpful. Like someone said, start your own web site for doig this type of business. Talk to Brady Berhman, He can help you build a site at a reasonable cost............please share your knowledge.............................mike

Ross
04-14-2004, 08:40 PM
What Mike said, except the part about using Brady's services. Go to the Fantasy 9-ball Forum to see what people think of Brady's shoddy web enterprises. All start and no finish.

Grady, it sounds like Charlie is being an entrepreneur. He sees a good idea and is trying to make money off of it. That opportunity is available to you as well. Call up your connections, get a big ring game going, charge admission or get it filmed with great production values for a showing on ESPN (hell, create a series, with winners qualifying over time for a big "World Series of Pool" finale ring game, now THAT is a money-making idea, take it for free if you want). Just knock off the "poor-me" routine. You've been doing it for years on both RSB and CCB.

BTW, thanks to you and Greg for your efforts at getting the ring games going at the DCC. Those were definitely the highlight of the tournament.

LBBill
04-15-2004, 06:46 AM
When playing in the McDermott Tour awhile back, they used to have the "Gomez" ring game challenge, McChesney didn't seem to be bothered by the DCC ring game being promoted with out his blessing.

Scott Lee
04-15-2004, 07:48 AM
Grady...I have known you, and we've been friends for 30 yrs., ever since you had the poolroom on Platte in Colorado Springs. Our paths have crossed many times, especially in the past 10 yrs., since I started my own tour. I told you sincerely EIGHT YEARS AGO how to successfully market your talents and services. Do what I do...teach and entertain in the college and military markets. You have done that to some degree (you even did an exhibition and clinic where I live, at Montana State years ago), but you seem to want to wait for others to call you. That is a lost proposition in a competitive world. Do not expect poolroom owners to pay you anything more than a pittance to do something in their rooms. You are NOT Mike Massey, and as has been mentioned before, are no longer at the top of your competitive game (and therefore have less 'name recognition'). You DO have incredible knowledge, and perform reasonable and popular exhibitions. Either hire yourself a booking agent, or get off your ass and get on the phone!

I have said this many times before...there is enough work out there (just in THIS country), to keep a HUNDRED people like you and me as busy as they want to be...and ALL of them making a six figure income annually. Sadly (but truly), this is the REAL avenue to making money playing pool. Tournament pool is a dead end...only the top 3-4 make any money. Gambling is a dead end...you win one day, but lose the next. Take this as a sincere suggestion of how you can still make a living playing pool (and a fine one at that)!

Your friend and colleague,

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com (http://www.poolknowledge.com)

SpiderMan
04-15-2004, 08:35 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> I have not read any of the other posts, but I thought I would comment first. Can anyone ever remember a time when Grady came to this board to tell us about how WELL something was going, other than to sell himself? eg8r &lt;~~~am I the only one that feels this way <hr /></blockquote>

Ed,

You're part right and part wrong. This one is pretty positive and upbeat, but there is some selling:

http://www.billiardsdigest.com/ccboard/showthreaded.php?Cat=&amp;Board=ccb&amp;Number=132441&amp;page =0&amp;view=collapsed&amp;sb=5&amp;o=&amp;fpart=1

SpiderMan

Popcorn
04-15-2004, 08:40 AM
A lot of people, seems to have never been able to grasp the fact that the world does not owe them a living, or anything else for that matter. It may be one of the most important lessons of life a person can learn and the younger they learn it the better. I myself, as I am sure do you, takes full responsibility for all my failures and in the same respect have no problem taking credit for my successes. Successful people do not spend their day complaining, they spend it doing. You have offered him a real fair and honest criticism, based on just plain common sense, sometimes the hardest thing for some people to hear.

Eric.
04-15-2004, 09:16 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Grady:</font><hr> I confess that Iím very disappointed that with the popularity and success of Ring Ten Ball,
I havenít received even one dayís work. The concept of ring games wasnít my creation but Greg Sullivan and I came up with a way to make it really shine. Now Charlie Williams and his UPA friends are advertising for sponsors for a Florida ring game. I just made a few phone calls to quality people and raised $60,000 for two ring games.
When several room owners and assorted folks asked me for everything I had on ring games I cheerfully and freely gave them all that I had. As I did this I would mention that I do awfully reasonable exhibitions and clinics and I could also take care of their particular ring game. Then, again, not a single dayís work. I donít want to make a crusade or issue out of this. It just hurts that when my services and products are the best on the market I get overlooked.
Grady <hr /></blockquote>

Scott and Popcorn make some good points. There is no secret to success. You need to be persistant. You have to work it constantly instead of expecting it to fall in your lap.

There is an inspirational plaque/picture I have hanging on my wall. It says:

"Everyday when the sun comes up in Africa, the Gazelle knows it must run faster than the fastest Lion or it will be eaten.

Everyday, the Lion knows that it must run faster than the slowest Gazelle or it will not eat."

The moral is that either way, when the sun comes up, you had better be running.

Now, I'm not trying to preach to you, just offering some thoughts.

I hope you persevere with your promotions and hope you're successful. Good luck.


Eric

Vicki
04-15-2004, 09:58 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> I have not read any of the other posts, but I thought I would comment first. Can anyone ever remember a time when Grady came to this board to tell us about how WELL something was going, other than to sell himself? This gets real old. I am growing weary of the cries from Grady, and this probably does not mean much at all, but it gets old to only hear negative stuff from him. Who cares if the UPA decides to do a ring game and not ask Grady for help or services? Is a ring game something ONLY Grady can run successfully?

I was wondering why Grady only mentions the 2 good ring games that happened, but he does not mention the one that never materialized after being advertised on the net and kept viewers sitting by their computers waiting for it to happen? No mention at all that it was not going to happen, is the best services on the market?

I would rather Grady quit worrying about what is happening everywhere else. Would it be so bad for Grady to come on the board once in awhile and tell us of some of the good happening in pool?

eg8r &lt;~~~am I the only one that feels this way <hr /></blockquote>

No, Eg8r, you are not the only one who feels that way. Grady is one of those old fools who thinks everyone owes him something, YET swears in one breath that he will not profit from something, then in the next breath appologizes to everyone that today he needs to make money for his work. Now that people are taking his ideas about the ring game and using the ideas to make money for themselves he feels he is entitled to something. He is bitter toward anyone who makes money in pool, in my opinion, because he has never been successful enough to make two nickles to rub. If Grady had any sense at all he would have gotten some kind of patent or trademark on the Ring Game concept and rules BEFORE he gave them away for free at Derby City.

It's like I always say, once you give it away, no one will ever be willing to pay for it again. Too bad Grady, you should have thought about it all the way to the end. You are so short sighted that all you care about is the little bit of cash in front of you and not the jackpot down the line.

I, too, am tired of hearing it. No one is going to jump up and give you money. You've been too willing to work for free all these years. I also have no patience for this good old boy crap. I don't care what generation you are - there was never a time that you didn't need to get it in writing.

Vicki

Chris Cass
04-15-2004, 12:57 PM
Hi Grady,

I have to agree with Popcorn on this one. I respect and care about you. These people aren't going to come knocking on your door. You can't claim credit for something that has been already invented.

Your a smart man. You can easily get promotors to invest in you. Why don't you side with someone and get something going. You mention how Scott Lee tells you this and that. Scott is a go getter. He doesn't wait for anything or anyone. You could do the same.

Firing at these people won't get money in your pocket. It's just going to close doors for you. Beat them to the punch and start doing things. Get funded, get a project going and make them see what you can do. They'll bang on your door then. What basically is happening is your sounding grumpy. Make these poeple say, I wish I thought of that. You can do this Grady.

When someone is complaining to you. Do you not hear anything but sour grapes? I do and then I realize I'm really not listening. I think it's from childhood. When I yell at my son it all seems like it's a waist of time. But, I can tell him calmly and he listens and gets the point.

Ther's this guy at my ph. He works there and everyone calls him Grumpy. He never has anything nice to say about anyone. Everything that comes out of his mouth is a smart comment or a complaint. Even the customers can't stand him. I asked my boss, Why would you keep the guy under your employ? He told me he would die.

I tried so hard to be friends with him. He got dead in my ear and yelled at me one day while I was taking over the shift. That for me is grounds for murder. However, now I don't even want to look at him. Nothing he says interests me in the least. Matter of fact, I go out of my way to avoid talking to him. That's sad too because, I believe everyone needs a friend.

With all the boards you post on. Do you think anything gets back to these people? Do you think they might consider avoiding you? Do you think in all fairness they would think of bringing you in on a project and reconsider because of the negative press they might receive on the net? Don't ruin your twilight yrs with all this.

Regards,

C.C.

Brady_Behrman
04-15-2004, 05:08 PM
First of all, I have appologized about my issues with fantasy9ball. People in forums love to talk, thats life. You live and you learn and we try to work things out.

I finish EVERYTHING I start, if i didnt I am sure I wouldnt be getting more and more sites done, I typically finish a site in less then a week.

Fantasy9ball is fun and a good experience at times.

Ross, You dont know ME! You know fantasy9ball and its not fair for you to say that i am "All Start NO Finish". I dont have full control of fantasy9ball. You making statements like you did only makes matters worse.

Look at my portfolio and see how many sites are unfinished or feal free to contact ANY of my clients and see if you can get ONE of my 40+ clients to say What you say..Good Luck!

http://www.poolsites.net/portfolio.php

Vicki
04-16-2004, 09:39 AM
I AM one of Brady's clients.

His work FAR exceeded our expectations. He has been easy to reach when we've had questions. Our calls have always been returned promptly. Given the scope of the work that was performed there have been surprisingly few glitches, any of which have been resolved quickly without any further problem. I would highly recommend him to anyone.

Brady, please feel free to give my or Mike's name and number to anyone who asks for references.

Vicki

Frank_Glenn
04-16-2004, 04:11 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Vicki:</font><hr> I AM one of Brady's clients.

His work FAR exceeded our expectations. He has been easy to reach when we've had questions. Our calls have always been returned promptly. Given the scope of the work that was performed there have been surprisingly few glitches, any of which have been resolved quickly without any further problem. I would highly recommend him to anyone.

Brady, please feel free to give my or Mike's name and number to anyone who asks for references.

Vicki <hr /></blockquote>

I'll second that.

OnePocketChamp
04-17-2004, 09:16 AM
Since Grady believes he invented the "ring game" and we all know that Al Gore invented the "internet"-----I believe I see a possible can't miss winning parnership here!!!! They need to get together and form a LLC, maybe called "Ring-A-Net".

Bob
04-17-2004, 10:50 AM
Got to ditto the comments on Brady. He does our websites and is EXCELLENT! I can always get in touch with him and my changes are done in a flash!

Eydie

cycopath
04-17-2004, 05:37 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote OnePocketChamp:</font><hr> Since Grady believes he invented the "ring game" <hr /></blockquote>

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Grady:</font><hr> The concept of ring games wasnít my creation but Greg Sullivan and I came up with a way to make it really shine. <hr /></blockquote>

Grady plainly says he didn't invent the ring game, OPC.

He and Greg Sullivan just did something really special with it, and it was a huge success. Now others want to do it after seeing what a success it was. Unfortunately that's the way of the world.

Popcorn
04-17-2004, 06:05 PM
quote
"He and Greg Sullivan just did something really special with it, and it was a huge success."

Are you kidding, all they did was con some backers into putting up money so the ring game could happen, Grady even bragged about it, what was special about that. In show business they are called "Angels, and patrons", people who repeatedly are taken advantage of by smart promoters and seem to love it. Get the old movie "The Producers", those guys are treacherous. It is very sad to be at a tournament and see world class players running around trying to promote a backer so they can get in action, too afraid or broke to bet a nickel of their own money. Grady himself does not fall into this group but most do. Sometimes it can be really laughable to see one guy woofing at another saying things like "Come on, bet it up, what are you afraid," who hasn't got a cent in his pocket and will even try to make a saver with the guy in case he loses the backers money so he comes out with something.

Qtec
04-17-2004, 10:37 PM
Wrong on both counts OPC.

http://www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.htm

Quote Grady,
"The concept of ring games wasnít my creation but Greg Sullivan and I came up with a way to make it really shine.".

Q

cycopath
04-20-2004, 10:50 AM
What do you mean by "conned"?

Are you saying the backers were promised something that wasn't ever intended to be delivered? I doubt that.

Essentially all the supporters were "buying" was some recognition and a little advertising. And maybe some bragging rights if their boy won.

How can that be a con?

By the way, I did think it was special what Greg and Grady did. And apparently a lot of other people did too, as everyone is adding a ring game to their tournament format. I don't recall seeing much of that before DCC.

eg8r
04-20-2004, 11:05 AM
Given the post you quoted, I would say my quote was 100% correct. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif The post was not really about anything that is going well, just that something would be happening. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif However this further proves the point, the only reason he did not mention anything negative was because this is a Grady event.

On a different note, I hope the event is very successful and the ring game sounds interesting. I do hope he is successful in his future endeavors, I just wish he would think about making some posts telling us of some of the good out there then to always harp on everything except his own events.

eg8r

Popcorn
04-20-2004, 11:23 AM
They are pool groupies I guess, they are like patrons of the arts. They allow themselves to be taken advantage of to be one of the guys. Every pool room has them. They run for coffee, except here it is a little more expensive. The so called premise of the ring game was, you are seeing player posting and gambling. That was not the case though, it is an exhibition paid for by, and I hesitate to even call them backers, a backer knows better. They ran out of backers pretty quick though, when they tried to do a few more. It was entertaining and everyone enjoyed it, although I can think of a few who probably didn't, but somewhat bogus. We just have different opinions. Conned is not really the wrong word though, given to their own devises, I don't think many people would enter into such an agreement, I hope it was tax deductible.