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nAz
04-14-2004, 08:07 PM
I am having a problem playing this rail first shot I can make it pretty consistently using a tip and a half of Side and half tip low on the CB but I can not make it to save my live with a center ball hit much less get position on say the 9B. I try to mirror the OB and aim for that spot where the OB would be if it were on the rail but it does not work very well with a center ball hit. It's driving me crazy trying to nail it down any help will be appreciated

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wei/ Vote Kerry In '04 /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif (http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/pooltable2.html)

Too lazy to look it up in the archives /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Leviathan
04-15-2004, 06:35 AM
Hiya, Naz. I always enjoy your posts--they make me feel like I've been concussed, or dropped acid and visited a world where everything is upside down.

If you're serious about attempting this shot--and I've got my doubts--then you're braver than I am. The CB is gonna tend to run along the first cushion unless you shoot it with a heroic amount of english. It'll be a feel shot whether you play it with or without heavy english. I'd just shoot the 8 straight in and play safe on the 9, give my opponent a chance to use his poor judgment.

Keep on dreamin', Naz!

AS

nAz
04-15-2004, 09:22 AM
thanks I aim to cunfuse /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

thanks /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

seriously you think this shot is that difficult? I would probably play it your way in a tight match that is the smarter option but i find it challenging to try to get out going rail first. still i have lots of trouble making any rail first shot using center ball hit i often miss that shot.

Leviathan
04-15-2004, 10:41 AM
Yeah, the kick would be kinda chancy for me. I could easily leave the 8 hanging and make it easy for my opponent to get on the 9. You're a better player than I am, though, and your 3-C experience must help you with kicks, so maybe it makes sense for you to go offensive in this kind of situation. Go gettum!

AS

recoveryjones
04-15-2004, 11:53 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote nAz:</font><hr> thanks I aim to cunfuse /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

thanks /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

seriously you think this shot is that difficult? I would probably play it your way in a tight match that is the smarter option but i find it challenging to try to get out going rail first. still i have lots of trouble making any rail first shot using center ball hit i often miss that shot.

<hr /></blockquote>

Jimmy Reid shows how to make rail first shots on one of his pool videos.(Fast Eddie Parker uses the same measuring method on his video as well) First he measures how far the ball is off the rail using his thumb and forefinger to find the distance.I believe he puts his thumb in the middle of the object ball( at the aiming point for the normal, unfortunatley straight in shot) he's trying to pot and his forefinger against the rail. He then holds that measured distance and then mirrors it (parallel)on the rail by moving his thumb to the edge of the rail and his forefinger on the rail base. Where his forefinger is on the rail base, that's where you aim.You just simply pivot your forefinger in the direction of the cue ball, carefully look at the spot on the rail base and aim there.

I don't know if I've confused you with my explanation, however,I've used this measuring formula and it works great.I make lots of off the rail pots using this system.In fact if you've measured properly and hit the cue ball clean(no sidings) at the spot on the rail base, you should make the shot virtually every time.The closer to the rail the easier things are.

If you go to Jimmy Reids website maybe he has something on it there or maybe you can email him or get the video.He has a lot of other great stuff to learn. Best of luck RJ

pooltchr
04-15-2004, 02:32 PM
Very close...but I believe in order to make the ob, you need to measure from the center of where the cb should be when it makes contact with the ob to the rail and then move it out. Measuring from the center of the ob will result in a straight on hit. Usually, with a rail first shot, it becomes a cut from the angle off the rail.

recoveryjones
04-15-2004, 02:45 PM
Thanks for adding that little bit. I know how to measure those shots and show others how to, however, explaining it on a forum can be a challenge.I think with a little expermentation of what we were trying to collectivley explain that others will be able to figure it out.

Setting up these shots and spending time practising them will allow anyone to be able to eventually do them by feel.Throwing english into the equation will definitly broaden ones position options.

1_8_9_141
04-15-2004, 03:19 PM
There is one other option that no one has mentioned. You 1P players would simply bank the shot with a dead cueball. With the right speed, whitey goes straight uptable. Speed is of course CRITICAL.

Scott Lee
04-16-2004, 12:47 PM
naz...Bob Jewett's article in the May BD discusses EXACTLY the shot you're talking about, and describes it just the way Poolteacher did in his response to you!

Scott Lee

nAz
04-16-2004, 01:14 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Leviathan:</font><hr> Yeah, the kick would be kinda chancy for me. I could easily leave the 8 hanging and make it easy for my opponent to get on the 9. You're a better player than I am, though, and your 3-C experience must help you with kicks, so maybe it makes sense for you to go offensive in this kind of situation. Go gettum!

AS <hr /></blockquote>
I doubt I'm that much better. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Ya C3 helps a lot with kicks and using heavy spin on long shots. trouble is i tend to put a lot of spin on shots unnecessarily, like that rail first shot.

nAz
04-16-2004, 01:15 PM
RJ thanks for the info I may try to get my hands on that video.

nAz
04-16-2004, 01:20 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr> Very close...but I believe in order to make the ob, you need to measure from the center of where the cb should be when it makes contact with the ob to the rail and then move it out. Measuring from the center of the ob will result in a straight on hit. Usually, with a rail first shot, it becomes a cut from the angle off the rail. <hr /></blockquote>

Thanks this helps a lot.

nAz
04-16-2004, 01:29 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Scott Lee:</font><hr> naz...Bob Jewett's article in the May BD discusses EXACTLY the shot you're talking about, and describes it just the way Poolteacher did in his response to you!

Scott Lee <hr /></blockquote>

Thanks scott I just got the issue last night but i have not had a chance to read that article.

BTW the Banking article by Piggy was very helpful /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Chris Cass
04-16-2004, 01:50 PM
All the signs of a "B" player. LOL

9 Ball Girl
04-16-2004, 01:54 PM
And to think we used to call lil ol' nAzee "3 Ball nAz". LOL Hey nAzareth, I hope those 3C books helped you out somewhat. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

nAz
04-16-2004, 02:12 PM
@ CC LOL you got me dead to rights! I think I'm nearing a solid B+ /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif but last night i played like a solid D+ but still managed to win.

@ Wendy ya they helped a lot, too bad there is no table near me anymore, been 3 months since i played 3C /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif

recoveryjones
04-16-2004, 05:10 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote nAz:</font><hr> RJ thanks for the info I may try to get my hands on that video. <hr /></blockquote>

Good idea Naz, there's a lot of valuable info in Jimmy Reids videos.Fast Eddie Parkers Video (which shows that off the rail shot formula) is excellent as well.The kicking systems he explains for 1-5 rail kicks have helped me immensley. The video is old and starts off really boring but has a ton of really valuable information on it for sure. RJ

ras314
04-16-2004, 07:36 PM
I can't recall ever trying this type short rail kick shot in a game. After playing with it a while I think I know why. If I set the shot up enough times I can make it fairly regularly with follow, center, or draw. Then work on speed awhile and eventually I can get decent position. Move the ob away from the rail 1/2" more and it gets much more difficult. It is just too thin a cut for a half blind old phart like me to make.

Same set up I find better odds simply drawing the ball back to the rail and across the table for position. Not nearly as sensitive to how far the ob is from the rail and a whole lot easier to pocket the ball. Only danger is scratching in the near side pocket, side english gets a bit tricky for me.

I can use rail first shots down the long rail when the hit is not so thin.

Wally_in_Cincy
04-17-2004, 07:47 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote ras314:</font><hr>...Same set up I find better odds simply drawing the ball back to the rail and across the table for position....<hr /></blockquote>

same here. Happened Just the other night.

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wei would I vote for Kerry? /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif (http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/pooltable2.html)

My opponent left me straight in on the 5. I cheated the pocket to the right.

ras314
04-18-2004, 10:26 AM
Wow! That looks like some sort of massey type trick shot. With the ob not quite straight in I would try something like this:

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%Yr7K9%Zq7K1%[_9[1%\s2L9%]O9K1%^_0[3
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If straight in just draw straight to side rail and over. Add a little left or right depending on how you want the cb to run off the side rail.

Wally_in_Cincy
04-19-2004, 06:55 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote ras314:</font><hr> Wow! That looks like some sort of massey type trick shot...<hr /></blockquote>

my bad.

I should have used the straight arrows.

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wei (http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/pooltable2.html)

Eric.
04-19-2004, 09:14 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote nAz:</font><hr> @ CC LOL you got me dead to rights! I think I'm nearing a solid B+ /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif but last night i played like a solid D+ but still managed to win.

<hr /></blockquote>

B+ !! Your game jumped a couple of levels in the past couple of months! /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif
(teasing)

Hey nAz, IMPO, I wouldn't have played that shot rail first. I think it makes the shot play harder than it needs to be.

As far as rail first shots, I find the way that works for me is to measure the distance from the OB contact point to the rail edge. Then measure the same distance from the rail edge to a point into the rail. That is your aim point. Just shoot with no english at that spot.

B+!


Eric &gt; /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

My bad-looks like RecoveryJ made the post before me.

The only diference between Jimmy Reids mthod and mine is that instead of using your finger, I point my cue at the contact point on the OB, with the cue parellel to the rail, I then visualize the same distance from rial edge to my aimpoint.

nAz
04-19-2004, 10:54 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Eric.:</font><hr>
B+ !! Your game jumped a couple of levels in the past couple of months! /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif
(teasing)
<hr /></blockquote>

ha Eric i wondered who would catch that first you or wendy maybe TomB /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif lol i'm still at a strong C level /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

BTW people i relooked at the wei diagram i put up and it is not set up the exact way i meant it to be, my bad. the way it is set up i would draw the shot also.

Eric.
04-19-2004, 11:51 AM
I wouldn't draw the shot either.

IMO, I like to play it with force follow, hit firmly, with some running english like this:

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using this position route makes the CB less speed sensitive. I would hit it trying to make the CB end up 4 inches off the third rail. Even if you under/overhit it a little, you should still have a decent shot at the 9.


Eric

cycopath
04-20-2004, 10:38 AM
How the hell do you draw the cueball like that with a center ball hit?!



/ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif Just yanking your chain, Wall...

Wally_in_Cincy
04-20-2004, 12:03 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote cycopath:</font><hr> How the hell do you draw the cueball like that with a center ball hit?! <hr /></blockquote>

fast larry taught me /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

nAz
04-20-2004, 02:16 PM
Nice play Eric, that is a shot that i sometimes have problems with. I often come close to scratching in the side pocket, i think it is because i put to much side on the CB.

Dude drop by Thursday.


@ Walley Finally you admit to learning something from FL. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif