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View Full Version : My response to "Ring Game" critics



Grady
04-15-2004, 10:21 AM
I'm sorry if I posted what some might consider negative. I'd like to answer as best I can some of the criticism I received.
First but very important to me, is that I haven't the slightest desire to be Scott Lee or Mike Massey, contrary to what Mr. lee seems to think as he is constantly telling me what I ought to do.
Next, to those who say I only post when I have something negative to say, I respectfully query, What about the hundreds of questions, some of them quite ridiculous, that I answer, lots of them private e-mails from the four newsgroups I patronize. Some of the questions require lengthy responses- yet I answer every single one.
Anyway, lastly let me say that I only would like to occasionally be used at what I'm good at.
From now on, anybody from Cuechalk that might be interested in what I'm doing, you can ask me anything or find me at AZ billiards.
Oh, I should mention that, yes I think I can do a hell of a lot better job doing 14.1 or a trade show than the BCA.At my event in Dec., there'll be a booth funded by very respected businesspeople, to begin a grassroots campaign to get "Bugs", Ronnie, Jersey Red and other really qualified players into the HOF. In short order, like say a year if no progress is made, I plan to begin our own HOF.

Vicki
04-15-2004, 10:43 AM
Blah, blah, blah.

More of the same foolish talk from an old fool. If you want a job GO OUT AND GET ONE. No one is going to come knocking on your door! This is something you should have learned a long time ago.

If you think you can do a better job than the BCA you are high. If you could have then you WOULD have by now. You can't. I know you can't, they know you can't. If you want, then prove me wrong. I hate the BCA trade show and I'd like nothing more than to see someone else do it better.

Go ahead and start your own HOF. Why wait? The BCA will NEVER recognize the players you mentioned. Not that they aren't worthy of consideration or induction but YOU are not going to MAKE the BCA do anything.

All you ever do is complain about how you got the shaft. Someone didn't give you something you thought you were entitled to. You think you are entitled to too much.

All this complaining makes you less and less credible. The more you go on about how everyone is doing you wrong the more people are losing respect for you. You'd do yourself a favor to just keep quiet.

Vicki

Voodoo Daddy
04-15-2004, 11:16 AM
WOW...did he deserve all that?

Voodoo~~~knows and likes Vicki but doesnt always agree with her /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Pizza Bob
04-15-2004, 11:16 AM
To sum up Vicki's post...

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."
Abraham Lincoln

Adios,

Pizza Bob

Vicki
04-15-2004, 11:21 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Voodoo Daddy:</font><hr> WOW...did he deserve all that?

Voodoo~~~knows and likes Vicki but doesnt always agree with her /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif <hr /></blockquote>

Voodoo, We definitely don't always agree, but I love and respect you. You are a stand up guy.

V

Popcorn
04-15-2004, 11:43 AM
I think a HOF should be established beyond what the BCA does. Screw the BCA. I would start on that right now and forget about the BCA. Maybe even a physical one. I believe the a guy that had the Fishing hall of fame, had it in a small store front. Now it sits on several acres under around 10,000 sq. ft. in Hollywood Florida and is a terrific attraction. If a nonprofit HOF of fame were set up I am sure many people including myself would contribute. Maybe a annual HOF tournament to help fund it. That is a project worth you doing.

poolplayer1988
04-15-2004, 12:14 PM
Geez Vicki....I'm new here, and I don't know you any more than I know Grady, but that seemed a little harsh on your part. Telling someone where to go is one thing, but call names ("old fool") is in a whole other realm. If you don't like Grady or respect him for his accomplishments, you should at least treat him as nicley as you'd want to be treated while telling him off. Just my two cents worth here, not trying to disrespect anyone.

Doug

ace895
04-15-2004, 12:22 PM
I think some of the comments made by vicki were a little harsh, but she is really right about most of it. It seems that grady is always complaining when he writes a post here, at az, or anywhere else. I think she is correct in saying that no one is going to just give grady a job. i do have respect for his game/career/intelligence but after studying the situation i probably wouldnt pick grady as a sponsor/promoter/tournament director. He seems to be living in the past. Whether it is unfortunate or not, (you decide), the game of pool is changing and men like grady will not accept the change. Also, as far as creating another hall of fame, that would just be a joke. just my humble opinion, probably isnt worth spitting on, but oh well.

larrynj1
04-15-2004, 12:37 PM
damn, i thought this board was a civil place, and moderated to be that way.

vicki sure has a bug up her xxx about grady. why not take it to e-mail and save yourself the embarassment, vicky?
that was just plain mean.

recoveryjones
04-15-2004, 01:02 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote larrynj1:</font><hr> damn, i thought this board was a civil place, and moderated to be that way.

vicki sure has a bug up her xxx about grady. why not take it to e-mail and save yourself the embarassment, vicky?
that was just plain mean. <hr /></blockquote>

Tap tap tap


My suggestion to you Vicki: Take a valium.

Popcorn
04-15-2004, 02:24 PM
quote
"Also, as far as creating another hall of fame, that would just be a joke. just my humble opinion, probably isnt worth spitting on, but oh well".

You are making the assumption that a current HOF exists. It would not be another HOF, it would be the only HOF.

Scott Lee
04-15-2004, 03:19 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Grady:</font><hr> First but very important to me, is that I haven't the slightest desire to be Scott Lee or Mike Massey, contrary to what Mr. lee seems to think as he is constantly telling me what I ought to do.<hr /></blockquote>

Grady...Constantly telling you what you ought to do? I think not. However, at one point, several years ago, we discussed this business, and your options, and you were not only civil, but downright appreciative for the support and information. Have you forgotten that discussion? I can tell you exactly when and where it took place, if you need a memory boost. My apologies if you thought I was putting you down. I was not...only offering someone I consider a friend an option to improve their personal income situation.

Scott Lee

Pelican
04-15-2004, 04:55 PM
Johnson City

bigbro6060
04-15-2004, 08:11 PM
I also don't know parties concerned but think Vicki is way outta line

Grady is a legend, needs to be some respect there even if you do disagree with him

Vicki, you come accross as redneck trailer park trash found on Jerry Springer

Chris Cass
04-15-2004, 11:07 PM
You guys gotta give the kid a break. Ever have a bad day? You and I might not like what she said but atleast she's being honest with her feelings. She also has the guts to say what she truely thinks. I'm sure if she met Grady she might understand him better.

Also, this isn't the firstime he's gone off on someone or something. People don't want to hear complaining. We all get enough of that stuff at work. I didn't think she should have let him have it with both barrels but, she really is a sweetheart.

It's funny actually. My wife will go off on me for something I never meant to begin with. I think that's why they say were from Mars. LOL Women amazed me anyway. They're on a 30 day rollercoaster with their bodies and it amazes me that they can deal with us men. You have to admit, we are a pain in the patoot sometimes. Lol Except me of couse. I'm an angel. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Regards,

C.C.~~Vicki, nextime don't hold back. /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Drake
04-16-2004, 05:49 AM
Grady can come across as a Grumpy Old Man pretty frequently. BUT, He is one of the best pool commentators and one of the foremost one pocket teachers. If you haven't been around pool for a while you wouldn't understand his motives about these players being in the Hall of Fame. BUT, If you speak to any player who ever saw these players play....they will tell you that they played better than half of the players in the Hall of Fame. If Luther had never resorted to playing in tournaments after he ran out of money games....Would he still deserved to be in the HOF?? If you consider the HOF a place where the best players are documented, These players should be in the HOF.

Chris Cass
04-16-2004, 06:54 AM
Hi Drake,

Man, where have you been? LOL Been wondering if you dropped off the planet. Anyway, your absolutely right. I can think of a dozen players that should be in the HOF. In all reality there really isn't one for pool.

I wish we could have a real place. A building and an actual address. I think Gus Szamboti should be the first. They might have already done it? I wouldn't know but in any regard, Grady came up with a new way to peak the interest of the rest of the pool community along with Greg. That was just a start. What I think he should have done and should do is to go with it.

I don't think he realizes how much money he could be making and the contacts he has to do so. Do you have any idea of how much Grady can really do for this sport? Tons and enough to get us on the map. Enough to have us listed in the local papers as a sport.

I like and respect Grady. The slamming and complaining will and is ruining him. He doesn't see what he's capable of really doing. Tell ya what Drake. I think he should hook up with Scott Lee and get something going. Scott is far from an idle person. He's a mover and a shaker. Grady can go places with him. The main trouble is, Grady better find someone soon or he'll alienate himself from every opportunity.

I know better than anyone else about Grady. Even though I don't personally know him. He's been a household name in this industry. Every pool player alive knows or heard of the name, Grady. Heck, the possibilities are endless if he applies himself. IMHO he needs a guy like Scott badly. People talk about being unteachable and who would know that concept more than Grady himself.

Anyway, it's great seeing you post again my friend. One of these days I need to get back to Ga. I can still see those weeping willow trees and those gigantic mansions in Savanna. What a beautiful part of the country. Found out they torn down that old pool room where I beat that kid Archer out of that $200. You can bet I can't do it now. LOL He's really on the comeback trail as of late.

Regards,

C.C.~~ /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Wally_in_Cincy
04-16-2004, 07:05 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bigbro6060:</font><hr> ...Vicki, you come accross as redneck trailer park trash found on Jerry Springer <hr /></blockquote>

Some of the vulgar stuff I've seen you write isn't a whole lot better.

SPetty
04-16-2004, 07:56 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chris Cass:</font><hr> You guys gotta give the kid a break. Ever have a bad day? You and I might not like what she said but at least she's being honest with her feelings. She also has the guts to say what she truly thinks. I'm sure if she met Grady she might understand him better. <hr /></blockquote>Chris, I can appreciate what you're saying, but how long do you have to live before you realize that if you're having one of those bad days where you can't even keep your tongue civil, you really shouldn't be posting in public. Perhaps, as you say, she was being "honest with her feelings", but she shouldn't have been so cruel in her presentation. It is apparent to those of us who don't know her that she has an obvious personal issue with Grady that should be kept, well, personal.

Vicki
04-16-2004, 09:28 AM
I knew when I posted originally in this thread that I would be criticized for my brutal honesty. Grady is a very popular character in pool and I realize that there are a lot of people who really, really like Grady. He is certainly entertaining, and I mean that in the most sincere way. I expected to be put before a firing squad for my comments and I am surprised that the reaction to my post has not been stronger.

I am not a mean person, but I am honest. People who know me don't often call me "nice", they call me "real". Wheather or not that is a good thing, I don't know. But I'm not changing for anyone.

I believe that Grady needs a friend who will tell him the truth. (I'm not implying that I am his friend.) Often popular public people are just told what they want to hear. They are not always told the truth.

If Grady waits for someone to call him and offer him a job he is going to wait a long time. I have no doubt that Grady needs work. We all need to make a living and keep a roof over our families heads. We are not doing him any favors if we reply, "Oh, that's too bad Grady. It's not like it used to be. They really should give you the respect you deserve and call you up to run their ring game." If we are honest and tell him to get off his hind quarters and get to steppin' then we are doing him a much better service.

I don't even think it's true that back in the good old days people did the right thing by each other, especially not in pool halls. People did what they had to do to make their livings and protect their interests, just like now. If it was 1964, instead of 2004, Grady would likely be in the same boat.

I am very sorry that I was so mean to Grady. I realize that must have been very hurtful for him to read. I just think that sometimes you need to get wacked over the head to see things realistically. Most people would have been very upset to have someone respond to them the way I responded to Grady. I wouldn't have liked it much myself. But I would have asked myself a few questions and done some soul searching.

I find Grady's complaints to be without merit. His criticism of Pat Flemming and Accustats was ridiculous since the announcers for the US Open had been announced weeks before the event and his name was not among them. He had no contract with Accustats and he made assumptions which turned out to be false. Then he came onto public forums complaining about the situation, making negative comments about all the people involved. That's not right.

And the reaction to his Accustats tirade was to stroke him and tell him that he got screwed. And people were mad as hell at Pat Flemming but Pat did absolutely nothing wrong and everything right. He helped to get pool on TV - LIVE.

That is only one example out of many, many times Grady has come 'round to complain that he is getting the shaft by people who owe him some favor. I'll not cite any others since anyone can look back in the archives to see what I am talking about.

I realize that it is not my place to give Grady, what I think, is the advice he desperately needs. But he did come onto a public forum and that kinda makes him fair game. Perhaps I could have been more diplomatic, kinder, sweeter to a man who is, but anyone's standards, one of the greatest legends of the game, but how long should we coddle him before we give him a swift kick in the butt?

Again, my sincerest appologies for laying into Grady.

Vicki

Oh, and P.S., I received a note from the CCB Admin that abuse of any other forum member would not be tolerated, which is proof enough for me that I took it too far. They are not going to delete my post. I would edit it to remove the abusive words but I'm getting an error that says the time to edit is expired. Sorry.

SpiderMan
04-16-2004, 09:33 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chris Cass:</font><hr> You guys gotta give the kid a break. Ever have a bad day? You and I might not like what she said but atleast she's being honest with her feelings. She also has the guts to say what she truely thinks. I'm sure if she met Grady she might understand him better.
<hr /></blockquote>

Chris,

Since you referred to her as a "kid", did you mean she just isn't mature enough to be more tactful? Saying what we think is one thing, but babbling "everything" we think is seldom a good idea. I know I don't want the world seeing inside MY head /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

It's hard enough to outlive the dumb things we say, but type them on the internet and someone will quote it back years from now.

SpiderMan

Tom_In_Cincy
04-16-2004, 12:46 PM
Vicki,

When I read your original post, my response was almost the same as VooDoo's. He posted his reply and I felt he had covered what I was thinking, so I didn't post since Steve had covered it so well.

I would like to thank you for taking time to explain your reasons and also your recognition of where you made your mistake. I think this shows character and I am a sucker for people with character.

Popcorn
04-16-2004, 12:49 PM
I would not worry about it, Grady opened the door with his post. Posts like that will draw criticism. On the other hand, being honest is not always the best policy either and you should not yourself be surprised you drew some criticism. It's a draw. The big problem is, in print, meanings can be lost or confused. I often make a post and go right back and delete it, knowing the meaning could be misinterpreted.

Chris Cass
04-16-2004, 01:43 PM
Hi Martin,

By saying kid, I meant she was younger than me. Heck, I call a lot of people kid. I think she's around 24 but I am not good at ages. I don't agree with the name calling thing but I also knew there were more to it, than just his post. I'm sure you got that too.

Yes, stuff like that can come back and bite you in the butt. I'm no angel either. I once told a guy I wanted to shove my S.W. where the sun don't shine. Yes, I regreted it too. I think it was Wally or the Cheese that pm'd me later about it. Yes, I felt bad about it too. It was over the most stupid thing, cigarrettes. The guy was right in every sence but I was being pig headed and refuse to give up my rights to puff. Even though they didn't tell me my cancer was smoking related the guy had every right to put it in my face and didn't. Live and learn. I guess were all kids.

BTW, I don't think it's ok to just go off on someone, even if there's more to it. I also don't think age, other than like 16 or so shouldn't be held responsible for the things they say and do. It does happen and Vicki does frequent the same events Grady does. Also, runs in the same circles as the people Grady is dissing. I don't mean to make excuses for someone elses behavior. Everyone handles frustration in different ways. I think Vicki has learned to pick and choose her words publically now. I can't hold it against her. These people set up booths. Go to the same tournament events and basically have to get along with one another. That doesn't always happen. Then, they see a friend of theirs being dogged and feel they have to put in their .02 Especially if they feel they've been wronged. In Hollywood they say, bad press is better than no press.


Regards,

C.C.~~ /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

recoveryjones
04-16-2004, 01:44 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Tom_In_Cincy:</font><hr> Vicki,

When I read your original post, my response was almost the same as VooDoo's. He posted his reply and I felt he had covered what I was thinking, so I didn't post since Steve had covered it so well.

I would like to thank you for taking time to explain your reasons and also your recognition of where you made your mistake. I think this shows character and I am a sucker for people with character.


<hr /></blockquote>

Tap tap tap

Valium no longer nessecary.

Chris Cass
04-16-2004, 01:48 PM
What do you know? Your just a kid yourself. LOL

/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif, been missing you. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Regards,

C.C.~~S.Petty is always cool. /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Rich R.
04-16-2004, 02:50 PM
Vicki, you don't have to apologize for saying the truth.
Being a legend in pool, does not mean the world owes you anything, as Grady believes. He has made a living in the pool industry. I believe he has been paid in full.

My employer doesn't owe me anything other than the pay check I have earned. Grady is no different.

9 Ball Girl
04-16-2004, 03:05 PM
I have to agree with Rich on this one. Kudos for being real.

Wendy&lt;---have seen, heard, and read worse here and in Gasp! pool rooms and tourny venues!!! /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Frank_Glenn
04-16-2004, 04:24 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I believe that Grady needs a friend who will tell him the truth. (I'm not implying that I am his friend.) Often popular public people are just told what they want to hear. They are not always told the truth.
<hr /></blockquote>
We're all "real". A friend might say something like this in private, or in a PM, but not in public. I don't know your motives, and don't care, but I don't want "friends" that act like this. YMMV

Chris Cass
04-17-2004, 01:01 AM
Hi Susan,

I do agree with you. I really think Grady wouldn't bat an eye at her post anyway. Gamblers like Grady and myself are think skinned when it comes to stuff like that. You want to get to us? Just beat us out of our doe on the pool table. I don't think many can with Grady. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Matter of fact he could easily just say, "And who are you? Who did you ever beat?" That he could use on most fronts.

Regards,

C.C.~~still he's a champion and a household name. most artists are high strung. chances are both of them are artists in one form or another.