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View Full Version : Its official - Spaniards have no spine!



bigshooter
04-19-2004, 04:37 PM
WASHINGTON – President Bush scolded Spain's new prime minister Monday for his abrupt withdrawal of troops from Iraq and told him to avoid actions that give "false comfort to terrorists or enemies of freedom in Iraq."
No country stepped forward immediately to take the place of Spain, which ranked sixth in contributing troops. U.S. officials braced for a withdrawal of troops from Honduras, as well.

"Honduras was affected by the decision of Spain," State Department spokesman Richard Boucher said. El Salvador and Nicaragua, the two other Central American countries with peacekeeping troops in Iraq, are holding fast, the spokesman said.

Bush expressed unhappiness about Spain's projected withdrawal in a five-minute telephone call with Prime Minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero, who on Sunday ordered the 1,300 troops to return home as soon as possible.

Zapatero placed the call to Bush and the president "expressed his regret to President Zapatero about the decision to abruptly announce the pullout of Spanish troops from Iraq," White House press secretary Scott McClellan said.

"The president urged that the Spanish withdrawal take place in a coordinated manner that does not put at risk other coalition forces in Iraq," McClellan said.

"The president stressed the importance of carefully considering future actions to avoid giving false comfort to terrorists or enemies of freedom in Iraq," McClellan said.

The new Spanish foreign minister, Miguel Angel Moratinos, is due to meet in Washington on Wednesday with Secretary of State Colin Powell and other administration officials.

Boucher, taking a slap at Madrid, said "we were surprised a little bit by the abruptness" of the announcement. However, he said the United States recognized the right of the new Socialist government to respond to public wishes and to carry out a campaign pledge.

Honduran Foreign Minister Leonidas Rosa Bautistas, whose country's troops serve in a Spanish-led unit, said Monday that President Ricardo Maduro "has ordered an urgent evaluation of the situation in Iraq."

"The government and armed forces are making the evaluation with the maximum security and in the shortest time possible," he said.

Sen. John Kerry, the presumptive Democrat nominee for president, also deplored Spain's move.

"I regret Prime Minister Zapatero's decision," Kerry said. "Spain and all the world have an interest in rebuilding an Iraq that is not a haven for terrorists and a failed state. I had hoped the prime minister would have reconsidered his position, and I hope that in the days ahead the United States and the world can work with him to find a way to keep Spain engaged in the efforts in Iraq."

""Rather than losing partners, I believe its critical that we find new coalition partners to share the burden in Iraq," Kerry said. "We need to offer to share responsibilities with the United Nations, NATO and others, so they will work with us in Iraq to achieve security, stability, and freedom."

Zapatero issued the recall on Sunday just hours after his government was sworn in. He said there was no sign the United States would meet his demand for United Nations control of the postwar occupation, his ultimatum for keeping troops there.

Zapatero's Socialist party won the March 14 general election amid allegations that outgoing Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar, by backing the war in Iraq, had provoked commuter-train terrorist bombings that killed 191 people three days before the vote.

Though Zapatero, a 43-year-old lawyer and career politician, had promised to remove Spanish troops, his immediate action was a setback for the United States, which has been eager to portray the effort in Iraq as an international cause even though it is dominated by its 130,000 American troops.

McClellan refused to characterize the tone of the two leaders' exchange, but Bush's words were unusually sharp by any standard.

Asked if the discussion was chilly or businesslike, McClellan said: "No, look, I think we've made it very clear we'll continue to work with Spain in the war on terrorism. Obviously the president expressed his regret at the abrupt decision to withdraw. But the coalition in Iraq is strong. We appreciate recent statements by many of the coalition nations expressing their solidarity and resolve."

Barbara
04-19-2004, 05:22 PM
Take away their new Aegis Destroyers!!!

Barbara

rukiddingme
04-20-2004, 06:47 AM
Lets see...public opinion in Spain has been 90% against their involvement in this Iraq mess from the get go.
Prior to the elections the now Prime Minister promised the electorate that he would remove the Spanish troops from Iraq if elected...BTW this was his position before the train bombings in Madrid.
So a politician keeps his promise to the voters the moment he takes office and does what he promised he was going to do. I find that rather refreshing and wish that our politicians would keep their promises to us on occasion.
ruk

Wally_in_Cincy
04-20-2004, 06:52 AM
[ QUOTE ]
...So a politician keeps his promise to the voters.... <hr /></blockquote>

You're missing the point. That guy never would have gotten elected had it not been for the bombings. The Spanish people gave in to blackmail. You just can't do that without inviting more blackmail.

cheesemouse
04-20-2004, 08:26 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr> &lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
...So a politician keeps his promise to the voters.... <hr /></blockquote>

You're missing the point. That guy never would have gotten elected had it not been for the bombings. The Spanish people gave in to blackmail. You just can't do that without inviting more blackmail. <hr /></blockquote>


Wally,

I suppose according to your my government right or wrong, your either with us or against us philosophy I will have to give up eating Spanish omelets....if I have to give up my favorite omlete you have to give up your spanish fly..... /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

eg8r
04-20-2004, 08:31 AM
Don't give up anything, just rename it. We no longer eat french fries, they are now Freedom Fries. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r

Wally_in_Cincy
04-20-2004, 08:38 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote cheesemouse:</font><hr>

I suppose according to your my government right or wrong, your either with us or against us philosophy I will have to give up eating Spanish omelets....if I have to give up my favorite omlete you have to give up your spanish fly..... /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif <hr /></blockquote>

I am boycotting French fries, French toast, Heinz ketchup, and "Bin Laden's Own" salad dressings and pasta sauce but by God I will not give up my Spanish peanuts.

mickey2
04-20-2004, 08:45 AM
Imo one of the main reasons why people voted against Aznar and the former government was, because the tried to benefit from the bombing in Madrid and kept lying to the public. To blame the ETA when evidence is pointing into another direction is maybe not the best strategy…..

There is a good analyses to find at:

http://www.washtimes.com/upi-breaking/20040315-123931-5676r.htm

cheesemouse
04-20-2004, 08:53 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> Don't give up anything, just rename it. We no longer eat french fries, they are now Freedom Fries. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r <hr /></blockquote>

I can't think of a good replacement name that would'nt need explaining to the waitress/waiter....hmmmmmmm??? /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

t411
04-20-2004, 08:58 AM
Originally Posted by rukiddingme
Lets see...public opinion in Spain has been 90% against their involvement in this Iraq mess from the get go.
Prior to the elections the now Prime Minister promised the electorate that he would remove the Spanish troops from Iraq if elected...BTW this was his position before the train bombings in Madrid.
So a politician keeps his promise to the voters the moment he takes office and does what he promised he was going to do. I find that rather refreshing and wish that our politicians would keep their promises to us on occasion.
ruk

Originally Posted by Wally in Cincy
You're missing the point. That guy never would have gotten elected had it not been for the bombings. The Spanish people gave in to blackmail. You just can't do that without inviting more blackmail.


The "guy" may not have gotten elected had it not been for the bombings but he was elected because that's what the people wanted. The government is for the people. People in other countries have the opinion more than ever that Bush went to war (with Iraq) under false pretences, not unlike the growing opinion in the U.S.ofA. If you agree with there opinion or not (and it can be argued both ways) at least there government is doing what the people want. Who is missing the point? Are there two points here? Witch point is more important?

Nightstalker
04-20-2004, 09:02 AM
I guess you're missing the blackmail issue, t411?

t411
04-20-2004, 09:07 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Nightstalker:</font><hr> I guess you're missing the blackmail issue, t411? <hr /></blockquote>

I did not miss the black mail issue, I did ask "is there two points here".

Nightstalker
04-20-2004, 09:09 AM
Well you obviously failed to address it, so what is your excuse now?

eg8r
04-20-2004, 09:12 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Are there two points here? Witch point is more important?
<hr /></blockquote> I don't think anyone has been talking about a Witch. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r

t411
04-20-2004, 09:18 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Nightstalker:</font><hr> Well you obviously failed to address it, so what is your excuse now? <hr /></blockquote>

No excuse, that point was already made, I think I quoted it. I just brought up another point.

t411
04-20-2004, 09:27 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> &lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
Are there two points here? Witch point is more important?
<hr /></blockquote> I don't think anyone has been talking about a Witch. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r <hr /></blockquote>

So we have the spell and grammar Gestapo here too. NOCK your self out. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Nightstalker
04-20-2004, 09:33 AM
I guess you do not feel that the blackmail aspect is important. I guess you think that it is ok for a gov't to behave this way, how would you like it if it were you in their position? Would you be saying how nice it is for the gov't to be doing what the people want if you were in their position?

t411
04-20-2004, 10:35 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Nightstalker:</font><hr> I guess you do not feel that the blackmail aspect is important. I guess you think that it is ok for a gov't to behave this way, how would you like it if it were you in their position? Would you be saying how nice it is for the gov't to be doing what the people want if you were in their position? <hr /></blockquote>

Nightstalker, first of all I never said the "black mail issue" is not important. I just brought up another point. Is it that you do not want to hear other points that do not go with your way of thinking? The bombings in Spain can not be condoned but the citizens in Spain (majority) never agreed with Bush (as for the war). So their government is doing what the Spaniards wanted in the first place. Is this wrong? Or was their government wrong for sending troops to Iraq against the Spaniards wishes? The war argument, pro or con, can be argued forever. If you are for the war and believe all of the justification that Bush has given that's nice,.... not everybody does. The Spaniards obviously don't and didn't before the bombings. Their government now reflects what the Spanish people wanted.

"I guess you think that it is ok for a gov't to behave this way, how would you like it if it were you in their position"? I think government should do what the people want. That's how they should behave.

"Would you be saying how nice it is for the gov't to be doing what the people want if you were in their position"? It is nice that their government is doing what the people want.

eg8r
04-20-2004, 10:51 AM
LOL, a bit on edge are you.

eg8r

Nightstalker
04-20-2004, 11:06 AM
I guess you feel that blackmail is an acceptable treatment, fine.

t411
04-20-2004, 11:28 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> LOL, a bit on edge are you.

eg8r <hr /></blockquote>

A bit on edge?......... hmmmm.....OK. A bit on edge of someone's way of thinking ?....... /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Wally_in_Cincy
04-20-2004, 11:54 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote t411:</font><hr>
...the citizens in Spain (majority) never agreed with Bush (as for the war). So their government is doing what the Spaniards wanted in the first place. Is this wrong?...<hr /></blockquote>

Sometimes gov't has to do what they think is right rather than what the majority wants. The fact is, right or wrong, Spain has troops in Iraq and to retreat at this point will give the impression that the terrorists got what they wanted from the bombings.

t411
04-20-2004, 12:04 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Nightstalker:</font><hr> I guess you feel that blackmail is an acceptable treatment, fine. <hr /></blockquote>

Nightstalker, I do not think I said that blackmail is an acceptable treatment. In fact I think I said that the bombings in Spain can not be condoned. I Tried to bring up another point along with the one that Wally in Cincy brought up. I asked the question "are there two point here". Could be that I did not come across the right way. Anyway, I do not think everything is black or white. Some things are black and white. I think that the government of Spain should be doing what the Spaniards want and I mean they should have been doing this before the bombings. Now with having said this, I know why the bombings took place and like I said earlier I do not condone the bombings. I also asked "[witch /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gifeg8r] point is more important"? I do not assume that I know your answer.

t411
04-20-2004, 12:29 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote t411:</font><hr>
...the citizens in Spain (majority) never agreed with Bush (as for the war). So their government is doing what the Spaniards wanted in the first place. Is this wrong?...<hr /></blockquote>

Sometimes gov't has to do what they think is right rather than what the majority wants. <font color="red"> True this Wally, I think all gov'ts have to make "tuff" decisions from time to time that may not be popular. It is also the peoples right to decide if those decisions that the government made for them are going to keep them in office. </font color> The fact is, right or wrong, Spain has troops in Iraq and to retreat at this point will give the impression that the terrorists got what they wanted from the bombings. <font color="red">You may be right Wally but maybe the old Spanish government should have listened to their people. I do think this, the old government of Spain would probably still be in office if the would have listened to the Spanish people. </font color> <hr /></blockquote>

Nightstalker
04-20-2004, 01:04 PM
You're a great person t411. /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif

eg8r
04-20-2004, 02:00 PM
[ QUOTE ]
bit on edge?......... hmmmm.....OK. A bit on edge of someone's way of thinking ?....... <hr /></blockquote> What are you talking about? You seemed a bit snappy so I commented on it. I was not trying to fix your spelling or point it out, rather I was just having a little fun. Since you spelled witch correctly, but obviously the wrong one, I thought it was funny. They do have their "points" also. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r

t411
04-20-2004, 02:20 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> &lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
bit on edge?......... hmmmm.....OK. A bit on edge of someone's way of thinking ?....... <hr /></blockquote> What are you talking about? You seemed a bit snappy so I commented on it. I was not trying to fix your spelling or point it out, rather I was just having a little fun. Since you spelled witch correctly, but obviously the wrong one, I thought it was funny. They do have their "points" also. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r <hr /></blockquote>

I thought that's what you were trying to say, I was just having a little fun. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif I try to put the little face expressions in with my post so as to come across the way I intend. It's not hard to take someone's tone the wrong way when you can not hear them, especially with someone like me who's not great at putting words down for communicating. /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gifThose little face expressions help me out a lot but not always.
/ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

t411
04-20-2004, 02:23 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Nightstalker:</font><hr> You're a great person t411. /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif <hr /></blockquote>

Thanks Nightstalker /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif