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Fred Agnir
04-26-2004, 09:37 AM
On the continuing saga of my APA 9-ball experience...

I realize that the majority of those counted as "poolplayers" have no idea how higher level 9-ball is played, but I was recently reminded of that idea last night.

I was playing a guy rated as an SL-7 in APA 9-ball. Our home bar is an 8' (not 7') bar table, so I have a little more room to move, and the corner pockets are easier. This should be a match where all of our skills are shown, rather than a bunch of flyers, hopes, and sprays.

Anyway, to make a long story short, the match runs over 20 innings, but I missed only three balls, scratched on the break once, and came up dry once. The rest were two-way shots, and a slew of straight out safeties. During the match, I overheard my opponent's teammates saying "he lucked out again" every time I played what looked to me like an obvious safety. Some weren't so obvious I guess like this:

http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/9egg/

START(
%Aq2N9%BQ9Q0%Cj3M9%D_5N8%El5O9%FN3U2%HL2I1%IE5P1%P R4H4%Qr1N0
%RX6Q0%Ur3N6%Vr8M9%Wr1M3%XS4H6%Ya7Z5%Zp6O6%[Z1R2%\`8Z6%eC4a4
)END

I could have fired the cut, but the one-pocket style shot was too easy with great rewards. "He lucked out a safe again."

Here's another:

START(
%HH5F1%II0N4%PI7D8%Qr3K9%UE3I0%VH0F8%Wr1M3%X]6Z6%Y]2Z5%ZI9F1
%[G3L7%\D3J3%]I2E8%^I3E5%eB0b0
)END

I got bad on a break out, so I thinned the 8-ball and froze the cueball on the head rail. "Lucky bastard never leaves you a shot. You're always frozen on the middle of the end rail."

Anyway, after the end of the match, even my opponent commented on how much luck I got! A friggin' "supposed" SL-7 couldn't see the shots I was playing! Neither my teammates nor their team posted more than 3 safeties. Yet, I'm sure we'll hear the battlecry of "lucky bastard" as well as "sandbagger."

Now, you all tell me. If a relatively decent player has no clue what a good 9-ball game looks like, how is an SL-4 or whatever supposed to know what good pool looks like?

Fred <~~~ not really surprised

04-26-2004, 09:46 AM

Steve Lipsky
04-26-2004, 09:54 AM
Fred, if they couldn't tell that your second diagrammed shot was an intentional safe, I am truly at a loss for words.

I guess my only question for you is why you are wasting time in this league?

LOL,
Steve

Fred Agnir
04-26-2004, 09:56 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote whitewolf:</font><hr> Way to go Fred. Sounds like you are starting to gravitate towards the safety side of pool, rather than trying to run out every chance you get. Your next step should be to dog shots purposefully, no to sandbag our anything, but for strategy. I know everyone on CCB thinks WW is crazy about this missing strategy, but I think you have a chance of being the first (besides Bluewolf)to realize advance strategy techniques LOL.

Now you are learning some hustling techniques. Notice how this unaware person thought you were 'lucky' LOL. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif <hr /></blockquote>

Whoosh.

And idea what the difference is between BCA 8-ball on bar tables at the Nationals compared to APA 9-ball on bar tables at the local bar? If not, I'd suggest you might want to sit back, relax, and enjoy the thread.

Fred

Fred Agnir
04-26-2004, 09:58 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Steve Lipsky:</font><hr> Fred, if they couldn't tell that your second diagrammed shot was an intentional safe, I am truly at a loss for words.

I guess my only question for you is why you are wasting time in this league?

LOL,
Steve <hr /></blockquote>LOL!!! Good question, Steve. For my own edification, I needed to know what the APA 9-ball was like. I didn't feel right insulting it if I hadn't played it. Now that I've played it, I can insult it. hehe.

Fred

rocky
04-26-2004, 10:06 AM
It seems to be geographical Fred. Around here we have sl3 that play like sl7's in our nine ball league. If your area doesnt have very well rounded players their rating is not going to be a true representation of there skil level truely is. ie......I played in the minis last year ans won everyone I played in or atleast came in second, our skill levels here are tough.

Popcorn
04-26-2004, 10:15 AM
What do care what they think, if you were on the road, it would be a perfect night of play. Honestly though, they are not really pool players and don't make playing pool a lifetime study. Cut them some slack, they just want a night out after a hard days work. You may be too serious of a player to be playing on a league. I don't think you should be putting them down though because they are not fanatics. I would say, they honestly don't know, so be it.

Eric.
04-26-2004, 10:26 AM
After listening to the difference in opinions between certain posters, maybe we should have some venue to settle the question of whose dog is bigger than yours. This can be played at the US Open CCB thing. I will be happy to promote this. I may even change my hairdo for the occasion. We can call it:

(non)Celebrity Death Matches @ CCB III

or:

The Thrilla nowhere near Manila

even:

Did not, Did too


The contestants are as follows:

Fred "Listen to what I'm Saying" Agnir
vs.
Whitewolf "You can't win without playing 15 safes per rack" Ray


9ballgirl "Who pinched me?" Wendy
vs.
Mean "Wasn't me" Gene


Ross "Fantasy Pool betting is great"NC
vs.
Brady "Comes thru in the end"Behrman


I am open to more match ups on the undercard, just PM me.


Eric &gt;Let's get readyyy to Rummmblllllle!

Popcorn
04-26-2004, 10:26 AM
You derive some pleasure from insulting lesser players, That was your reason for playing? I think you may be surprised how little they really care that you know more about pool then they do. I am a little surprised at you for starting this thread.

catscradle
04-26-2004, 10:31 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred Agnir:</font><hr> On the continuing saga of my APA 9-ball experience...

Fred &lt;~~~ not really surprised <hr /></blockquote>

I think there are some pretty sophisticated players in the APA and some real ball-bangers. I know how well you play, but did you start out as a lower rank (4) in the APA. If so, it may be that they are assuming you weren't capable of playing those safes. As far as marking safeties goes, I've had people keeping score tell me how nice a safe I just played and put nothing on the score sheet and half the time the person keeping score walks off to the bar to get a beer and guesses at what he may have missed.
It would be a better league if people kept score properly. For that matter though if people would just always play their best game at all times, a simple games won/lost percentage would be sufficient to have accurate handicaps.
Yeah, that's likely.

PQQLK9
04-26-2004, 10:34 AM
Thats Funny Eric...surely a match between our favorite political opponents would be nice also ... /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Eric.
04-26-2004, 10:41 AM
Nick,

I'm building it, will they come?



Eric &gt;"the Troublemaker" vs. ?

SPetty
04-26-2004, 11:17 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Eric.:</font><hr>Did not, Did too<hr /></blockquote>With my siblings, it deteriorated like this:

Is Not!
Is Too!

'S Not!
'S Too!

SNot!
SToo!

Snot!
Stew!

"Snot Stew" would be a good name for what you're suggesting! It could get ugly! /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

cycopath
04-26-2004, 11:34 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote catscradle:</font><hr> if people would just always play their best game at all times,<hr /></blockquote>

Man, I wish I could play my best game at all times.
My worst keeps creeping in... unintentionally. /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Wally_in_Cincy
04-26-2004, 11:35 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> You derive some pleasure from insulting lesser players.....<hr /></blockquote>

Those players would rarely frequent this board therefore their delicate sensibilities will not be harmed by Fred's thread.

Seriously, I think this is legitimate fodder for discussion, or maybe Fred just felt like ranting a bit. Maybe he was interested to hear from others with similar stories. I know I have posted things here that frustrated me solely for the sake of getting it off my chest. I see no real harm in that.

Wally~~marks safeties

Fred Agnir
04-26-2004, 11:40 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> You derive some pleasure from insulting lesser players, That was your reason for playing? I think you may be surprised how little they really care that you know more about pool then they do. I am a little surprised at you for starting this thread. <hr /></blockquote>I have no idea what you're talking about. I'm sorry I didn't make it clearer.

Fred

Wally_in_Cincy
04-26-2004, 11:41 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote catscradle:</font><hr> .......It would be a better league if people kept score properly. For that matter though if people would just always play their best game at all times, a simple games won/lost percentage would be sufficient to have accurate handicaps.
Yeah, that's likely. <hr /></blockquote>

I was talking to our LO Friday. He said there is a team that won the summer and fall sessions going away then finished dead last in the spring session. Coincidentally our annual city championship happens next month. He was considering DQ'ing them.

catscradle, here's hoping today is "light-gravity" day for you /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Steve Lipsky
04-26-2004, 11:41 AM
Good points Wally. I would also add that many of these league players exhibit an arrogance about the game that simply must be seen to be believed. In my opinion, this opens them up to all kinds of righteous verbal retaliation.

- Steve

Fred Agnir
04-26-2004, 11:48 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote catscradle:</font><hr> I think there are some pretty sophisticated players in the APA and some real ball-bangers.<hr /></blockquote>Yup.

[ QUOTE ]
I know how well you play, but did you start out as a lower rank (4) in the APA. <hr /></blockquote> I have an established APA handicap, so when I started this session in the 9-ball, I started as an SL-7. I'm now playing as an SL-8.



[ QUOTE ]
As far as marking safeties goes, I've had people keeping score tell me how nice a safe I just played and put nothing on the score sheet and half the time the person keeping score walks off to the bar to get a beer and guesses at what he may have missed. <hr /></blockquote>I guess that's the biggest reason for the post. In fact, that's the title of the thread. My pov is that up until last night, I didn't realize how non-obvious certain safeties are (to call as safeties).

Fred

Wally_in_Cincy
04-26-2004, 11:49 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Steve Lipsky:</font><hr> ... I would also add that many of these league players exhibit an arrogance about the game that simply must be seen to be believed. ....<hr /></blockquote>

Steve, I actually had an APA skill level 3 gloating after he beat me a couple weeks ago. In 5 games he slopped in no less than 10 balls and won the match on this bank shot after he left himself this position.

START(
%Aq2J9%CD3J3%DM2G2%ED5R9%HD0U2%PY4Q5%Ur6D0%VD7T2%W E9U4%XX1Q9

)END

http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/pooltable2.html

The majority of folks in our league are good sports but there are some who think they are better players than they really are.

Popcorn
04-26-2004, 11:49 AM
I would say more, he got pleasure in feeling superior. Big fish in a little pond.

Wally_in_Cincy
04-26-2004, 11:52 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> I would say more, he got pleasure in feeling superior. Big fish in a little pond. <hr /></blockquote>

I think you're reading Fred's attitude wrong. He has never claimed to be a great player. He was just making an observation.

Popcorn
04-26-2004, 11:53 AM
It is nice to know you at times can be clueless also as you are here. You can play a little and can't wait to put down someone you feel superior to, that is all it amounts to.

Fred Agnir
04-26-2004, 11:54 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> I would say more, he got pleasure in feeling superior. Big fish in a little pond. <hr /></blockquote>You're talking about the wrong guy. My internet history is replete with discussions about the big fish in a little pond syndrome. I know exactly where I stand. And that's near the bottom rung, not the top.

Fred

bigshooter
04-26-2004, 12:01 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> It is nice to know you at times can be clueless also as you are here. You can play a little and can't wait to put down someone you feel superior to, that is all it amounts to. <hr /></blockquote>

Gee Whiz - Who whizzed in Popcorn's uhhh......... popcorn?
You seem a little agressive in this thread.

Eric.
04-26-2004, 12:06 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SPetty:</font><hr>Is Not!
Is Too!

'S Not!
'S Too!

SNot!
SToo!

Snot!
Stew!

"Snot Stew" would be a good name for what you're suggesting! It could get ugly! /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif <hr /></blockquote>

Snot vs. Stew it is!


Eric &gt;just need more contestants

Popcorn
04-26-2004, 02:54 PM
My response may have been a little knee jerk. It is one of my pet peeves when a player makes fun of another players ability or lack of knowledge. You see it so often in the pool room and it is never the strong players, but the want-to-be's. They have the fancy sticks, have read all the books, own every tape, yet never enter tournaments but sit in the stands criticizing and critiquing players who have the nerve to get up and play even though they may not have a chance of winning. I don't think that is you, like I said I just hit the keyboard when I read your post with the, "I can insult them now" and HeHe at the end. I apologize if I over reacted.

Barbara
04-26-2004, 03:19 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> My response may have been a little knee jerk. It is one of my pet peeves when a player makes fun of another players ability or lack of knowledge. You see it so often in the pool room and it is never the strong players, but the want-to-be's. They have the fancy sticks, have read all the books, own every tape, yet never enter tournaments but sit in the stands criticizing and critiquing players who have the nerve to get up and play even though they may not have a chance of winning. I don't think that is you, like I said I just hit the keyboard when I read your post with the, "I can insult them now" and HeHe at the end. I apologize if I over reacted. <hr /></blockquote>

You couldn't be more wrong about Fred. Fred's got game and smarts and respect for players of all skill levels.

And Fred was right, if his opponent couldn't make out that one-pocket safe as a safe, then WTF?

And as for that "HeHe" at the end, wow!! That was Fred making a funny about acting like some others on this board who think they have the right to insult others' playing skills. Like FL.

Barbara


<font color="blue">"It takes 43 muscles to frown and 17 to smile, but it doesn't take any to just sit there with a dumb look on your face."</font color>

Popcorn
04-26-2004, 03:31 PM
Meanings can often be lost in print, that is one of the problems with these boards. You need to always give the benefit of the doubt as to meaning, before responding. I made a mistake that I won't try to justify.

Eric.
04-26-2004, 03:40 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Barbara:</font><hr>

<font color="blue">"It takes 43 muscles to frown and 17 to smile, but it doesn't take any to just sit there with a dumb look on your face."</font color> <hr /></blockquote>


"It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile and 4 to bitch-slap someone for being stupid" -unknown



Eric &gt; /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

tateuts
04-26-2004, 05:43 PM
Popcorn,

The only thing that really concerns me about jumping on players like you did is that you may supress them from making an honest statement that represents their point of view. It seems to me that many of the knowledgeable people here are reluctant to venture an opinion or point of view that others may find worthwhile, for fear of being misunderstood or unreasonably criticized.

If other members are reluctant to state their opinion for fear of being attacked, I view that as a form of censorship that contributes to a boring board.

I can understand where Fred is coming from. Good players appreciate good play too. When you make a good shot, hopefully people will appreciate it. I mean, why do we bother trying to get good? Yes, it is to win but it's also to accomplish something we desire - to attain the highest level of skill possible. Yes, that involves impressing others and I think impressing ourselves too. A lot of times my opponents give me too much credit - like I'll kick in a ball by pure luck and hear a sincere "nice shot".

In any case, I agree with Fred. It's would be irritating to have someone chalk up good play, a nice safe, a great shot or a terrific run out to "dumb luck". I will say, however, that most of my opponents are knowledgeable enough to know better.

Chris

nhp
04-26-2004, 06:45 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote tateuts:</font><hr> Popcorn,

The only thing that really concerns me about jumping on players like you did is that you may supress them from making an honest statement that represents their point of view. It seems to me that many of the knowledgeable people here are reluctant to venture an opinion or point of view that others may find worthwhile, for fear of being misunderstood or unreasonably criticized.

If other members are reluctant to state their opinion for fear of being attacked, I view that as a form of censorship that contributes to a boring board.

I can understand where Fred is coming from. Good players appreciate good play too. When you make a good shot, hopefully people will appreciate it. I mean, why do we bother trying to get good? Yes, it is to win but it's also to accomplish something we desire - to attain the highest level of skill possible. Yes, that involves impressing others and I think impressing ourselves too. A lot of times my opponents give me too much credit - like I'll kick in a ball by pure luck and hear a sincere "nice shot".

In any case, I agree with Fred. It's would be irritating to have someone chalk up good play, a nice safe, a great shot or a terrific run out to "dumb luck". I will say, however, that most of my opponents are knowledgeable enough to know better.

Chris <hr /></blockquote>

I hope you don't think that I thought that you annhilating me in the tournament was dumb luck... you played REALLY good.

Jimmy B
04-26-2004, 06:45 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Eric.:</font><hr>I am open to more match ups on the undercard, just PM me.


<hr /></blockquote>

How bout
Eric "we ain't won a game since you showed up"

-v-

Jim "what the hell did I get myself into?"

JB

Leviathan
04-26-2004, 06:51 PM
Fred and Popcorn post some of the best stuff we see on the this board. Neither of them was at his best in this thread, in my opinion--but what of it? Let's move forward.

AS

Jimmy B
04-26-2004, 06:54 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> it is never the strong players, but the want-to-be's. They have the fancy sticks, have read all the books, own every tape, yet never enter tournaments but sit in the stands criticizing and critiquing <hr /></blockquote>

It's been my experience that Fred steps up and plays in some tournaments,and his playing cue is damn ugly :-D I think he may have read all the books though so you might be right about him.

JB

bluewolf
04-26-2004, 06:59 PM
The fact is that not marking safes and/or intentional mishits contributes to persons being at an sl lower than it is supposed to. With that being said, lots of the whole safety issue used to bother me a lot but I just go these days to compete and have fun.I have not yet developed the physical stamina to play in a non-handicapped event because if I got lucky and won a match or two, it could make for a long day.So still play the league and just try not to get bothered about things I cannot change.

The factors I see are:

1)not counting them to pad innings
2) looking at that sl box or even what they perceive the player to be, and not marking them
3)not paying attention to the game, being complacent
4) dont recognize it because the person keeping score does not have good defense themselves.

As much as I sympathize with others who are irritated at this, it seems to be just how it is in league play. So these days, I try to do my best and the rest of it is c'est la vie.

Laura

Jimmy B
04-26-2004, 07:10 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bluewolf:</font><hr> I have not yet developed the physical stamina to play in a non-handicapped event because if I got lucky and won a match or two, it could make for a long day. <hr /></blockquote>

That could be one of the worst excuses I've ever seen in type, but I guess is you believe it...

JB

Qtec
04-26-2004, 07:11 PM
"In the land of the blind, the person with one eye is King".

Fred makes a good point.


If I can pot a 100 balls in a row and never take into account "throw", does that mean I am lucky?.

I,m sure Fred is a good player and the shots shown were for me[ and most players] pretty obvious.

In pool its not about what you kow , its what you do.


Q

Qtec
04-26-2004, 07:28 PM
"In the land of the blind the man with one eye is King".

Never measure yourself against your opponent.

Be true to yourself?

Q

tateuts
04-26-2004, 07:33 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote nhp:</font><hr> I hope you don't think that I thought that you annhilating me in the tournament was dumb luck... you played REALLY good. <hr /></blockquote>

Thanks, man - and sorry too. I wish it were the other way around - I hated that place!


Chris

bluewolf
04-26-2004, 08:38 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Jimmy B:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote bluewolf:</font><hr> I have not yet developed the physical stamina to play in a non-handicapped event because if I got lucky and won a match or two, it could make for a long day. <hr /></blockquote>

That could be one of the worst excuses I've ever seen in type, but I guess is you believe it...

JB <hr /></blockquote>

It happens to be true. I injured my back sometime ago and had to gradually build up my time at the table. Expecting to get better but right now,more than an hour or so and I am in extreme pain.

But, then, if you choose to not believe, it is no sweat off my back.

Laura

Jimmy B
04-27-2004, 02:29 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr>

In pool its not about what you kow , its what you do.


Q <hr /></blockquote>

Not in this case, this is a case where it becomes an insult and a pain in the ass when someone doesn't even see the shots. I don't care if the SL7 Fred plays can execute the shots Fred took, but if he at least acknowledged them for what they were. Some players who have respect and knowledge for the game will see shots they can never make but at least they have sense enough to say nice shot or to just keep their mouth shut. It's annoying when you feel you've played a well executed shot only to hear morons talking loudly about your luck. My advice to my team is keep your mouth shut and if you see a shot that looked like luck remember it so when it comes up for you next time you can have the same luck. It's not about what you can do on the table it's more about respect for the opponent. I don't think Fred got mad because his opponent was jealous, he was pissed because he was being called a hack when in fact he had executed a good shot. A little recognition goes a long way. I've played in tournaments where I was getting killed and the only thing I was happy about was that the guy drilling me noticed the few good shots I executed.

JB

Jimmy B
04-27-2004, 02:37 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bluewolf:</font><hr>
It happens to be true. I injured my back sometime ago and had to gradually build up my time at the table. Expecting to get better but right now,more than an hour or so and I am in extreme pain.

But, then, if you choose to not believe, it is no sweat off my back.

Laura <hr /></blockquote>

I believe your back hurts and I also believe you can't play for long times, but neither of those facts has anything to do with playing against better competition. Around here we have open tournaments that are races to 3 or 5 (we even have a race to 1) with open class players. These tournaments move much faster then any APA battle between a 3 and a 2 that I have ever seen (I've seen a lot). My point is playing against better players will be the only way you will improve no matter how long or short the race (longer the better obviously) in situations where it counts (money match or tourney. And if you don't shoot that good I wouldn't worry about lasting to long in the tourney, and if you do you can always drop out due to back pain and go home feeling even better thinking if your back were better you could have won the whole thing. I just hate excuses to me it's the worst thing you can do for your game. Hope you build up stamina, when my back is out I think playing makes it feel better and I know I concentrate much more on staying down on my shots, I play better in extreme back pain believe it or not.

JB

catscradle
04-27-2004, 05:58 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Jimmy B:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> ... It's annoying when you feel you've played a well executed shot only to hear morons talking loudly about your luck... <hr /></blockquote>

It didn't occur to me until reading your post, but could they have just been trying to shark Fred.

bluewolf
04-27-2004, 06:33 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Jimmy B:</font><hr>.


I believe your back hurts and I also believe you can't play for long times, but neither of those facts has anything to do with playing against better competition. Around here we have open tournaments that are races to 3 or 5 (we even have a race to 1) with open class players. These tournaments move much faster then any APA battle between a 3 and a 2 that I have ever seen (I've seen a lot). My point is playing against better players will be the only way you will improve no matter how long or short the race (longer the better obviously) in situations where it counts (money match or tourney. <hr /></blockquote>

I love to play against better players as it tends to bring out my best game.Unfortunatly, I play less well against those my same sl level or lower, so have not mastered the mental aspect which enables one to 'play the table not the player', like a truly great player has.

The only regular open ones we have here are these open ones played in by men such as keith mccready and mike davis, who are both touring pros. There are a few c's there but mostly a-b. Mike is not as high ranked as keith but has beaten him in planet pool before.

It is ironic that about 2-3 months after I started playing pool(20 months ago), I got real sick for about one year. i tried to drag myself to the table when I could but it was rather difficult. Without getting into detail, it seemed that each time I started getting better, something else physical happened.Ironically, I have been healthy all of my life with an immune system so strong that I do not even catch the common cold so this was just a series of temporary things IMO.

When I finally started feeling better, my back went out lol. I played in planet pool last year, by then getting over the illness but had had the back thing one before and so my goal was to just be able to stand up and play.

In my first match, I was beaten easily by a superb player who had been an sl7 in apa. The next match was against someone who was a C player or so. I held my own and think I had a good chance(as did she) of winning but my fatigue got me so bad, I was barely standing and almost drunk from the fatigue by the end so it went 5-4 in her favor. All that means is that I did not see easy outs, not able to play my best, it does not mean that i would have won otherwise. Even at going two and out, I was there for about 4 hours.

I have continued to improve so am hoping to play in it in june when it comes back to my area, and we will just see how that goes.

One top women player in that tour told me she got creamed for a year so am not as concerned with winning or losing as I am with playing well and having the competition. In non handicapped, I think that without that sl next to their name helps my game. There are so many boxes associated with any sl, I have tried to forget about that, but have not quite succeeded in that aspect.

Popcorn told me a long time ago that I would be better off in dead even rather than handicapped league play and I know that he is right.

Thanks.

Perk
04-27-2004, 06:52 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bluewolf:</font><hr> Even at going two and out, I was there for about 4 hours.

<hr /></blockquote>

One thing to remember, even though you might be playing short races, tourneys tend to drag out. This lost stamina that you mention isnt necessarily from playing. Time waiting plays a big factor. Learn how to take care of yourself during the down time. Eat or drink the appropriate things that keep you where you need to be. IMO

BTW....there was a thread awhile back that incorporated ideas similiar to this. I cant recall which one, but I remember C.C. tossed some good ideas into it.

Cheers!

Eric.
04-27-2004, 07:44 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Jimmy B:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Eric.:</font><hr>I am open to more match ups on the undercard, just PM me.


<hr /></blockquote>

How bout
Eric "we ain't won a game since you showed up"

-v-

Jim "what the hell did I get myself into?"

JB <hr /></blockquote>

You got action!


BTW, I think I was more of a Lucky Charm; if it weren't for me, you guys may not have got the first set to be up /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif


Eric &gt;lucky charms don't just come in a box of cereal

Fred Agnir
04-27-2004, 07:51 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote tateuts:</font><hr> Popcorn,

The only thing that really concerns me about jumping on players like you did is that you may supress them from making an honest statement that represents their point of view. <hr /></blockquote>Not that he needs it, but in defense of Popcorn, if he doesn't say what's on his mind, I'll never know what his feedback is. And often times, that's what I'm after: feedback. Good or bad. Thick skin is a must in this type of medium.

If my view point seemed arrogant and condescending to others, I guess I'd like to know that as well. It certainly wasn't my intent, but after re-reading my post, if certain posters didn't know me personally, it could come across as uppity.

Fred &lt;~~~ which doesn't mean I'm not uppity

bluewolf
04-27-2004, 09:40 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred Agnir:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote tateuts:</font><hr> Popcorn,

The only thing that really concerns me about jumping on players like you did is that you may supress them from making an honest statement that represents their point of view. <hr /></blockquote>Not that he needs it, but in defense of Popcorn, if he doesn't say what's on his mind, I'll never know what his feedback is. And often times, that's what I'm after: feedback. Good or bad. Thick skin is a must in this type of medium.

If my view point seemed arrogant and condescending to others, I guess I'd like to know that as well. It certainly wasn't my intent, but after re-reading my post, if certain posters didn't know me personally, it could come across as uppity.

Fred &lt;~~~ which doesn't mean I'm not uppity <hr /></blockquote>

I always listen to what popcorn has to say, even when he is terse. I would hate it if popcorn were any other way. I like it when a person says what they think, whether it is popular or not, especially when they are experienced at pool. Rather a popcorn than a 'people pleaser' /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

But then my best friends are rather out spoken. What good is it to have friends who just say what you want to hear and not what you need to hear?

Laura

ras314
04-27-2004, 09:41 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote tateuts:</font><hr> Popcorn,
A lot of times my opponents give me too much credit - like I'll kick in a ball by pure luck and hear a sincere "nice shot".

<font color="blue">Hate it when that happens </font color>

In any case, I agree with Fred. It's would be irritating to have someone chalk up good play, a nice safe, a great shot or a terrific run out to "dumb luck".
Chris

<font color="blue">Love it when that happens </font color> <hr /></blockquote>
I seem to be out of step with most folks.

04-27-2004, 01:29 PM

SPetty
04-27-2004, 01:50 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote whitewolf:</font><hr>I'm from Venus and you are from Mars.

So I will sit back and maybe enjoy the rest of the thread.

"A man's got to know his limitations." <hr /></blockquote>Enjoy this: "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Eric.
04-27-2004, 01:55 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SPetty:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote whitewolf:</font><hr>I'm from Venus and you are from Mars.

So I will sit back and maybe enjoy the rest of the thread.

"A man's got to know his limitations." <hr /></blockquote>Enjoy this: "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif <hr /></blockquote>


I guess that means Whitewolf wears the dresses in that family /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif


Eric &gt;where does Earth fit in?

bluewolf
04-27-2004, 02:15 PM
OMG. Nobody in our house wears dresses. WW wears suits and 'conservative ' clothes and I wear jeans and tshirts. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

How about ray goes through the stargate on a regular basis? /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

BTW WW, I am anything but left brained but it took me four years to understand your humor.

Laura

Alfie
04-28-2004, 01:29 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred Agnir:</font><hr> Now, you all tell me. If a relatively decent player has no clue what a good 9-ball game looks like, how is an SL-4 or whatever supposed to know what good pool looks like? <hr /></blockquote>Fred, I certainly hope you marked those safeties on yourself.

bluewolf
04-28-2004, 05:41 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Alfie:</font><hr>hope you marked those safeties on yourself. <hr /></blockquote>

When I was playing my first session as an sl2, I would go to the captain and tell him it was a safe. he said that he was the scorekeeper and it was up to him when to mark a safe. they wanted me to stay a two for the playoffs. That was short lived. In the first playoff ww won, I beat a strong four with that sl2 handicap. The two captains lost as well as the other person on that team that won.

i guess what goes around comes around. The next session, I got the same answer, the scorekeeper would say that it was their decision. So I stayed an sl2 for that session two but by then winning at 70% to 90%. Of course, that had to be factored in with previous losses when i first started and was nervous.

So APA is difficult in that respect and unfortunately until one gets to a six, the matches are two short imo.


I always wished that they could have split leagues, 2-4 and 5-7, proventing 2s or 3s dumped on 6-7. When that happens all the 2 or the three has to do is get lucky and if the higher player scratches, the weaker player is on the hill for the rest of the match.

Laura

Fred Agnir
04-28-2004, 07:33 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Alfie:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred Agnir:</font><hr> Now, you all tell me. If a relatively decent player has no clue what a good 9-ball game looks like, how is an SL-4 or whatever supposed to know what good pool looks like? <hr /></blockquote>Fred, I certainly hope you marked those safeties on yourself. <hr /></blockquote> Touché.

I try to keep my grubby fingers off that score sheet. They'd ask me to keep score if they knew I could read and write.

Fred

Pelican
04-29-2004, 08:23 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bluewolf:</font><hr> intentional mishits <hr /></blockquote>

Is this like having a bowel movement on purpose? /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif

JDB
04-29-2004, 08:52 PM
I have to disagree with this...

Me and my friend were on the same team, APA 9 ball, we were both 8's... at first either him or me always kept score just to ensure all safeties were recorded correctly, even against our own team... after a while we let other people keep score, but one of us would always go to the scorekeeper after each "safety" to make sure she recorded it (especially the other team /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif))... I know everyone doesn't play this way, but we were trying to ensure that the scoresheet accurately reflected each game...

One thing most people don't realize is that the highest safeties make it to the "computer" for rankings. Even if you just mark safeties for the other team and not yours, they will make it to the rankings regardless if the other team marks it or not. Therefore, if each team just recorded the appropriate safeties for the other team, the rankings would be much more reflective of each persons ability.

Also, I saw the shots you diagrammed and I assure you, we would have recognized each one as a safe, said good shot and marked them as safeties on the scoresheet...

JDB
04-29-2004, 09:25 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred Agnir:</font><hr> I try to keep my grubby fingers off that score sheet. They'd ask me to keep score if they knew I could read and write.

Fred <hr /></blockquote>

I haven't used quotes before so this may not end up looking like I wanted... but... I will post anyway...lol

btw...this is what I was talking about in my previous post too... but I didn't know how to "quote".

I think it is the responsibility of the better players in APA (SL7 and above) to ensure that scores are kept properly. Generally, each team has at least one higher level shooter playing for them that understands the game. It is their responsibility to be watching the matches, as well as the scorekeeper, to ensure that proper safeties are marked. When you "wash your hands" of it, as you indicated above, that is what leads to sandbagging and a bad name for the APA.

Fred Agnir
04-30-2004, 07:15 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote JDB:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred Agnir:</font><hr> I try to keep my grubby fingers off that score sheet. They'd ask me to keep score if they knew I could read and write.

Fred <hr /></blockquote>When you "wash your hands" of it, as you indicated above, that is what leads to sandbagging and a bad name for the APA.
<hr /></blockquote>That's an excellent point. One to consider.

The biggest reason why I don't keep score at all is that I can't watch the full game if I'm too busy marking down balls and innings. But, it might be a good idea for me to just say, "that was a safety" and be done with it.

Fred

bluewolf
04-30-2004, 07:52 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote JDB:</font><hr>

btwhink it is the responsibility of the better players in APA (SL7 and above) to ensure that scores are kept properly. Generally, each team has at least one higher level shooter playing for them that understands the game. It is their responsibility to be watching the matches, as well as the scorekeeper, to ensure that proper safeties are marked. When you "wash your hands" of it, as you indicated above, that is what leads to sandbagging and a bad name for the APA.
<hr /></blockquote>

Lots of sl7s have kept score a lot, been captains for a number of years, because for most, it does require a bit of time to attain that level. Many of them are just burned out and if they had to do all of the scoring, would quit.

So, with that in mind, we have players who play well but do not want the responsibility because it would not be fun for them at all, resulting in lower players keeping score and marking/missing safes.

Laura---&gt; the poolhall opens in 45 minutes LOL

Alfie
04-30-2004, 04:32 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred Agnir:</font><hr> I try to keep my grubby fingers off that score sheet. They'd ask me to keep score if they knew I could read and write. <hr /></blockquote>LOL

Fasteddy7
05-02-2004, 05:27 PM
I just got the 2 youts part...funny...very funny