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Chris in NC
04-28-2004, 04:02 PM
We've greatly enjoyed watching these re-runs at the poolroom this week. These players could still play amazingly well, though I'm sure nothing like they used to. I couldn't help but notice a number of observations I wonder if others picked up on.

First, the pockets on the Gold Crown with the new cloth were obviously playing fairly generous, though occasionally some balls were jawed. Just curious as I don't think they'd come up with Simonis 860 back in 1981, I wonder if it was Mali or what, but it seemed quite slick.

I couldn't help but notice the rule changes since then - for the better I might add. On one break Mosconi made nothing but totally snookered Babe where he had no chance to hit the 1-ball. Instead of having a push-out option, Babe was forced to try an unsuccessful nearly impossible kick, which gave Willie ball-in-hand. Had Willie made a ball on that break, Babe would have had the ball-in-hand. Obviously the push-out rule either had not been invented or was not used for that event. Also, in another match a player scratched while making a ball on the break. The ball was spotted behind another ball near the spot, which left the shooter with ball-in-hand behind the line with very little chance at a shot and even a tough safe. One should never have to come to the table with ball-in-hand and not have a shot - which I'm sure is why they decided to change the rule.

Most of the players seemed to have much shorter bridges than todays top players, and for the most part they played extremely fast. Mosconi appeared to hold his right hand choked well up on the butt of the cue - clearly forward of the perpendicular forearm position when the cue-tip was right behind the cue ball.

The trick shots were entertaining, but one had the impression due to poor planning that the players had little preparation time for these shots - and that they were just for filling time in the 1 hour taping once the matches were over. Many of the players played the same trick shots over and over on different tapes and were clearly not prepared for having to show off a repetoire of trick shots. Still all in all, a great idea of ESPN to re-air these matches. - Chris in NC

justbrake
04-28-2004, 04:53 PM
what my observation was how allen hopkins did the comintary of the games and how he was ahead of his time back then, better then the players in my observastion! thats why watching games is sometimes more important then playing them! imo.

dg-in-centralpa
04-28-2004, 04:58 PM
I found it interesting in the match between Willie and Jimmy Moore, the intereview with Allen and Willie. Willie called Allen one of the best shot makers ever. Where I live, a shot maker is one who makes shots from anywhere but really doesn't know how to play position. I've seen Allen play and he definitely knows how to play position.

DG - not sure of Willie's terminology

BLACKHEART
04-28-2004, 07:51 PM
I think all of the changes you've mentioned, were made to speed up the game...JER

Barbara
04-28-2004, 09:23 PM
JER,

Plus the fact that, IIRC, when the breaker in 9-ball scratched, the incoming player was actually penalized by the rules that were in effect at that time. Any balls made on the break were respotted, the cue ball had to be hit from behind the headstring, and if the 1-ball was behind the headstring, it was spotted also, but in front of all the other balls being spotted. Ouch!! Not a bad spot to put your opponent in if you scratched on the break.

Did you notice that during the 8-ball match being played by Babe Cranfield and Irving Crane that whatever was pocketed on the break became their respective group? Unless they pocketed a ball from each group, that is. Ouch again!! What a penalty!!

Barbara~~~loves the BCA rules, period...

Wally_in_Cincy
04-29-2004, 06:38 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Barbara:</font><hr>
...during the 8-ball match being played by Babe Cranfield and Irving Crane that whatever was pocketed on the break became their respective group? Unless they pocketed a ball from each group, that is. Ouch again!! What a penalty!!... <hr /></blockquote>

That's the rule in APA. APA's 8-ball rules were adopted from the pro rules as they existed in 1986 (IIRC).

and yes, it would be more advantageous to the breaker to be able to choose your group....

Wally~~doesn't like that rule.

PS Barbara it looks like your buddy Allen (aka Dorian Gray) has aged pretty well /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Fred Agnir
04-29-2004, 06:39 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Barbara:</font><hr> Did you notice that during the 8-ball match being played by Babe Cranfield and Irving Crane that whatever was pocketed on the break became their respective group? Unless they pocketed a ball from each group, that is. Ouch again!! What a penalty!!

Barbara~~~loves the BCA rules, period...

<hr /></blockquote>They should have consulted with a book or something for the 8-ball, IMO. When they did the Wide World of Sports Mosconi vs. Fats , one year Fats lost a game by not hitting the 8-ball when it was his object ball. That hadn't been a rule for some 20 years at that point.

Fred

#### leonard
04-29-2004, 11:45 AM
Willie played with a slip stroke in his prime and his arm was not at a 90 degree angle. I didn't see him play that is only from my memory of how he did play.####

Chris in NC
04-29-2004, 12:39 PM
Perhaps his slip stroke is why his hand appeared to be starting from so far up on the cue - that would explain it - thanks. - Chris in NC

daviddjmp
04-29-2004, 12:55 PM
I also enjoyed Jimmy Moore, who played very well. He had a strange habit of lining up his cue tip very low left on every shot, regardless of where he wound up hitting the CB. Is there a reason for this or is this just habit or idiosyncrasy?

SPetty
04-29-2004, 01:00 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote daviddjmp:</font><hr>...lining up his cue tip very low left on every shot... Is there a reason for this or is this just habit or idiosyncrasy? <hr /></blockquote>Or maybe it's just the camera angle?

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote daviddjmp:</font><hr>Trying to determine a way to get out of the Internet Industry and make a living playing music and Pool.<hr /></blockquote>Please let us know when you figure it out. You could probably do it by selling the solution!

Fred Agnir
04-29-2004, 01:28 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote daviddjmp:</font><hr> I also enjoyed Jimmy Moore, who played very well. He had a strange habit of lining up his cue tip very low left on every shot, regardless of where he wound up hitting the CB. Is there a reason for this or is this just habit or idiosyncrasy? <hr /></blockquote>Possibly a stick aiming method.

Fred

Steve - Detroit
04-29-2004, 01:46 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred Agnir:</font><hr> When they did the Wide World of Sports Mosconi vs. Fats , one year Fats lost a game by not hitting the 8-ball when it was his object ball. That hadn't been a rule for some 20 years at that point.

Fred <hr /></blockquote>

What year was that, Fred? I've got a BCA rule book from 1966 that sure implies that it's loss of game.

#### leonard
04-29-2004, 02:41 PM
Almost all the players of that era lined the cuetip at the cloth. I don't know who passed on this method of lining up shots.####

daviddjmp
04-29-2004, 02:50 PM
DJ LOL....

Thanks I needed that!

He lined up the cue the same in relation to the CB regardless of the angle of the shot or the type of english he applied.

Frank_Glenn
04-29-2004, 06:06 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chris in NC:</font><hr> Perhaps his slip stroke is why his hand appeared to be starting from so far up on the cue - that would explain it - thanks. - Chris in NC <hr /></blockquote>

I have made a wmv file that is &lt;300K that shows the slip stroke Mosconi used. It is in game 3 of the Mosconi/Moore match on the 3 ball. I can send it to someone who can post it for the rest to see. I can redo it in mpg or avi if needed. I can no longer post stuff on the web, so if someone can I will be glad to email it. Send me a PM.