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View Full Version : HONEST Percentage on this shot

COEX_FO
04-29-2004, 07:12 AM
I'm curious as to what your percentage is on this shot. I call it a reverse spot shot and use it as one of my drills. On my table, currently I'm averaging about 30% (3 out of 10). What should it be as compared to really good players (100%)?

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Chris Cass
04-29-2004, 07:32 AM
Hi,

Why would you practice this shot? Anyway, I'll shoot 10 of them and let you know how I do. I will shoot it on a 9ft. and let you know later. BTW, no shot is 100%. Anything can go wrong in this game. LOL

http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/pooltable2.html

Regards,

C.C.

Perk
04-29-2004, 08:25 AM
I would guess I would make that 7 of 10. Not sure why ya would practice it. Cut it to the other corner, and practice it for fun, you can win some prop bets or drinks with it.

nAz
04-29-2004, 08:26 AM
I could probably come close to %50 on a reg. size table, if my eyes hold up. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif But like CC asked why shoot it there, in 9B the side pocket would be best it's closer and has a great chance of leaving your opponent a really hard shot if you miss. Actually it's a good shot to practice for last pocket 8B or one pocket.

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Vote Kerry /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif (http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/pooltable2.html)

9 Ball Girl
04-29-2004, 08:45 AM
I can probably make that shot 4 out of the 10 times and possibly better depending on the kind of pressure it is. But like nAz said, for 9 ball, I would shoot it in the side pocket so that if you missed, you'd leave your opponent something like this:

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The Wei Table (http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/pooltable2.html)

Predator314
04-29-2004, 09:36 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote nAz:</font><hr>
Vote Kerry /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif (http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/pooltable2.html) <hr /></blockquote>

Haha... Damn Democrats are now politicizing our pool shooting /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

(The above words are a joke, not a political bash /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif )

SPetty
04-29-2004, 10:08 AM
I could never make this shot. I suck. /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Wally_in_Cincy
04-29-2004, 10:23 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SPetty:</font><hr> I could never make this shot. <hr /></blockquote>

Never?

It's not that hard

It might come up in 8-ball if the side is blocked but I can't remember ever shooting it.

Scott Lee
04-29-2004, 11:52 AM
For a top player, this would be an 80-90% makeable shot. The determining difficulty factor (or lack thereof), is based on the distance from the CB to the OB, not the OB to the pocket. The distance here is 3 feet on a 9' table, making this a reasonably easy shot, even with the CB in the jaws of the corner pocket. All it takes is a smooth, straight stroke.

Scott Lee

Steve Lipsky
04-29-2004, 11:58 AM
Holy cow... judging from all the replies, I think I need the 6 from everyone! I can't see myself making that shot more than 3, maybe 4, out of 10. I will look at it on a real table tonight though.

That being said, I'm with my man Chris Cass on this one... why on earth would someone spend time practicing this shot?? /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

- Steve

Popcorn
04-29-2004, 12:05 PM
I don't know, it would be hard enough to just roll it straight in the side 80 or 90% of the time much less the corner. I might make it more like 50% and that would be for a very good player.

Nightstalker
04-29-2004, 12:17 PM
On a good day I cold make it 1 out of 10, lol. Nah, probably 3 or 4 out of 10. That is a pretty tough shot though and certainly not one that I would work on mastering lol.

Predator314
04-29-2004, 01:21 PM
I think 30 or 40% would be pretty good mainly because of the cue ball being in the pocket. Move the cue ball out a bit and I can up my percentage to 60-70%. I really don't have a clue because I've never tried it. I'll give it a whirl tonight.

nAz
04-29-2004, 01:46 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Predator314:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote nAz:</font><hr>
Vote Kerry /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif (http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/pooltable2.html) <hr /></blockquote>

Haha... Damn Democrats are now politicizing our pool shooting /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

(The above words are a joke, not a political bash /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif ) <hr /></blockquote>

lol i'm a independent, /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

nAz
04-29-2004, 01:47 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Steve Lipsky:</font><hr> Holy cow... judging from all the replies, I think I need the 6 from everyone!
- Steve <hr /></blockquote>

to tell ya the truth i can make it 9 out of 10 so i'll give ya the 6 and out /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Chris Cass
04-29-2004, 04:12 PM
Ok,

Here's the dope. I shot this shot coming in cold. The first try I missed by 2 diamonds. The second I landed short and hit the inside corner. The third I hit the outside corner. The fourth thru sixth I jarred the ball. It wasn't till my seventh shot till I made it dead ctr pocket. Then, made it ctr pocket everytime.

So, a total of 7 shots before I was able to get the angle right. Then, it was a cake walk. Remember this shot is in the blind. The table I played on was a 9ft Olio with double shimmed pockets and new 860 cloth.

Steve Lipsky was right on. 4 out of 10. I find this to be one of the angle shots I do teach and use in my drills but still I wouldn't use this shot in any game unless I had to.

I thought I was a fairly good shot and I guess this is an eye opener. I also feel this shot is less than a 4 out of 10 shot percentage. I wasn't even under any pressure either.

Anyone shooting this shot should aim this at 3.5 on the diamond sys. In actuality the cb hits after contact about diamond 3. This is what I'm talking about for those who don't know what I'm talking about. You just aim for this spot and forget the ball.

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BTW, off the subject a hair for those shooting the spot shot. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

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The Wei table is off a bit. It looks like a back cut but in reality it's not it's a straight in.

Good luck CO and thanks for ruining my confidence. J/K /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/pooltable2.html

Regards,

C.C.~~if I were a paranoid schitzo I would think he was trying to belittle us. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

SPetty
04-29-2004, 07:50 PM
Well, I wish I had your hint before I tried it. I, as you know, suck. I was able to get it 2 out of 10 on the nine foot Diamond Pro (with pro cut pockets). I moved to the seven foot Valley Cougar, and doubled it to 4 out of 10. I moved back to the Diamond and shot from the other corner, and made 2 out of 10 again.

As an excuse: If the pockets were a tad bigger or just a bit more forgiving on the Diamond, I would have made at least five of ten, but that's not the case. It bobbled in the pocket several times.

tateuts
04-29-2004, 07:55 PM
I just made it 6 out of 10 on my home table after 4 or 5 warm up shots. My table has tight (4 1/2") pockets. The shot drops easier if you shoot it easy.

However, the strength of my game is mostly cue ball control and ability to pocket fairly difficult shots and still get shape. I am not a super accurate shot maker in the snooker mold. I believe that a great shotmaker, like a very good snooker player, could make this shot 80% of the time or more.

Chris

Sid_Vicious
04-29-2004, 08:49 PM
I personally don't find it as strange to practice this shot as many have expressed wonderment over. Once you can get a superior average in making this, I'd imagine you would accomplish at least two things. One, you're control of the stroke with the intimidation factor of shooting over the rail in a pressure situation, would have to improve(imo.) Two, you have a reference point for future off angle shots, game-stoppers if you will, AND they do come up! I'll tell ya though, to stay down and properly stroke as well as you'll need to do, to consistently play this in the corner pocket...well you gotta gather "more game" than just making that shot repeatedly! jmpo...sid

tateuts
04-29-2004, 09:34 PM
I'm with you, Sid. I think it's a good shot to practice because it forces you to bridge over the pocket - making the shot more difficult than it would be otherwise. A lot of shots are missed when the cueball is in this position.

Chris

Qtec
04-29-2004, 10:07 PM
[ QUOTE ]
The determining difficulty factor (or lack thereof), is based on the distance from the CB to the OB, not the OB to the pocket. <hr /></blockquote>

Thats a pretty sweeping statement which is not entirely true.

For instance,is shot A easier than shot B?

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Qtec

piglit
04-30-2004, 06:19 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote 9 Ball Girl:</font><hr> I can probably make that shot 4 out of the 10 times and possibly better depending on the kind of pressure it is. But like nAz said, for 9 ball, I would shoot it in the side pocket so that if you missed, you'd leave your opponent something like this:

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The leave you think is possible ... is not.

The 9 might go to the top rail, but you'd really have to hit it bad to get it there.

The cue does not go to the bottom rail...unless you shoot it up in the corner or draw it back and down, requiring a hit far too firm for a side pocket.

Just wishing I was playing pool and not working!

-pigu

Popcorn
04-30-2004, 07:18 AM
I would agree with Scotts statement in essence, although there would be exceptions such as a ball you are close to that is a radical cut compared to a fairly straight shot that is farther apart. I think his point is once you strike the cue ball, any errors grow as the cue ball travels till it hits the object ball. Once the object ball is hit, the shot is on its way to wherever it is going to go. Scott is correct. Even in your example, if both shots were struck with the same error, you would have a better chance of making the close shot then the long shot.

bluewolf
04-30-2004, 07:42 AM
Based on your drawing, the 9 in the side looks like a cake walk, shot soft. I feel that a good sl5 who does not choke would make this 80% of the time at least. Even I would make it over 50%.

Laura

rocky
04-30-2004, 07:46 AM
I shot the shot last night twice, two sets of ten. Made 5 both times on an eight foot pro. 50% thats kind of depressing. I shot the first set with top english and the second with bottom.

Eric.
04-30-2004, 08:55 AM
Hey Chris,

I'm glad you tried the shot and posted the results. You made a point which echos what Lipsky was saying-

In a game, you DON'T get warm up shots to try to make it.

Eric &gt;low percentage shot

RUNaRAK
04-30-2004, 08:57 AM
I was 6 for 10 in my attempt. Also started cold and went right into the shot. Not terribly tough shot but not one that I would choose if I had my choices. I can see this one as being beneficial to practice. It is much tougher with the pressure on.

ras314
04-30-2004, 11:02 AM
3 of ten first try, 4 the second. I suspect it is easier on a Diamond table because of the low pockets. At any rate it is much harder for me if moved over on the rail.

Noticed it doesn't seem to make much difference how hard the ob is hit, if it hits inside the corners it drops, if not it dont.

Chris Cass
04-30-2004, 11:05 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote nAz:</font><hr>tell ya the truth i can make it 9 out of 10 so i'll give ya the 6 and out /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif <hr /></blockquote>

I've heard that about you nAz, but I don't think they were talking about pool. /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Regards,

C.C.~~I got so much money to back Steve. HAHAHAHAHA Oh nAz, you kill me brother. LMAO

SpiderMan
04-30-2004, 11:15 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chris Cass:</font><hr>
Anyone shooting this shot should aim this at 3.5 on the diamond sys. In actuality the cb hits after contact about diamond 3. This is what I'm talking about for those who don't know what I'm talking about. You just aim for this spot and forget the ball.
<hr /></blockquote>

Chris,

I just can't agree with that. What happens if the object ball or cue ball is 1/32" offset from the place where that (ignore the ball) aim works? You miss, unless you adjust without realizing it.

"99 Critical Shots" had a similar system for making spot shots, and IMO it's the worst piece of advice in the book (I praise the book in general, but not that shot). If you really followed the instructions, it would only work for a very specific setup. Luckily, it works more than that because as a shooter you compensate without realizing it, ie you only "think" you're ignoring the ball.

SpiderMan

Chris Cass
04-30-2004, 11:26 AM
Hi Marty,

I'm only talking about a fixed shot and yes, it must be in the same exact place but in reality your stroke will compensate for it. It's really no different than looking at the cb last when shooting off the frozen rail. Do you think you hit the cb in the exact same place you aim? Doesn't the tip does change shape after a shot too. Same concept to me.

I teach and practice angle shooting. I never really aim, to shoot the ob. I always shoot the angle when in the blind. Just another way of looking at something is all. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Do you do tips for Sid?

Regards,

C.C.

Ross
04-30-2004, 11:46 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> I would agree with Scotts statement in essence, although there would be exceptions such as a ball you are close to that is a radical cut compared to a fairly straight shot that is farther apart. I think his point is once you strike the cue ball, any errors grow as the cue ball travels till it hits the object ball. Once the object ball is hit, the shot is on its way to wherever it is going to go. Scott is correct. Even in your example, if both shots were struck with the same error, you would have a better chance of making the close shot then the long shot. <hr /></blockquote>

Popcorn, you are correct that "once you strike the cue ball, any errors grow as the cue ball travels till it hits the object ball." However this is also true of the ob. The farther it has to travel, the more magnified any errors in its initial direction are. As a result, the accuracy required to make a shot is a function of both cb to ob distance and ob to pocket distance.

Geometrically speaking, given a certain distance from cb to pocket, the margin of error is lowest (shot is most difficult) when the ob is half-way between the cb and the pocket.

Leviathan
04-30-2004, 12:16 PM
'Lo, COFO. I suspect that my percentage on your shot would be a good deal lower than my percentage on spot shots, for two reasons: (1) I'm not as comfortable bridging over a pocket as I should be; and (2) the point of aim is off the ball in your shot, and this makes the shot harder for a player at my level. (I set my spot shots up so that I can aim at the edge of the OB.)

Your shot doesn't come up often in my games. I can't remember ever attempting it. I think that most players might find it more helpful to practice long straight-in shots from positions that require bridging over a pocket, or common game-situation shots that require bridging over a pocket (example below). When I miss a straight-in shot I can be pretty sure that my aim was okay and that my stroke was bad. If I missed your shot I wouldn't be sure how much of the error was in my stroke and how much was in my aim.

Situation of a kind common in 9-Ball:

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Wei table:

http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/%7Ewei/pool/pooltable2.html

Regards,
AS

SPetty
04-30-2004, 01:01 PM
" 'Lo, COFO. " HAHAHAHA!

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Leviathan:</font><hr>If I missed your shot I wouldn't be sure how much of the error was in my stroke and how much was in my aim.<hr /></blockquote>Great post, Leviathan. This sentence, I think, explains why my shot percentage was so low. Well, that and the fact that I suck! HAHAHA!

nAz
04-30-2004, 01:33 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chris Cass:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote nAz:</font><hr>tell ya the truth i can make it 9 out of 10 so i'll give ya the 6 and out /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif <hr /></blockquote>

I've heard that about you nAz, but I don't think they were talking about pool. /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Regards,

C.C.~~I got so much money to back Steve. HAHAHAHAHA Oh nAz, you kill me brother. LMAO <hr /></blockquote>

Thanks I enjoy making you LOL /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

err i failed to mention that he has to shoot with his feet in order to get that spot. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

BTW i tried that shot last night and out of ten trys i made it five. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Popcorn
04-30-2004, 04:00 PM
The shot starts with the player and the probability making a good hit on the object ball is better if you are closer to the object ball. At a distance any shot can be missed, even a hanger.

Given a choice in the shot below, I would much rather be shooting the 5 then the 1.

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SPetty
04-30-2004, 04:05 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr>Given a choice in the shot below, I would much rather be shooting the 5 then the 1.<hr /></blockquote>Does your answer change if you're not shooting off the rail?

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I'd much rather be shooting the 1 in this case than the 5. I think this thread is teaching me that my stroke is better than my aim.

Popcorn
04-30-2004, 05:15 PM
That's interesting, I would feel much better shooting the 5. I think at a distance everything gets harder. Hitting the spot on the ball, keeping your eye on the ball. A good example may be a shot like this. I like A, but not B. In B the one ball is the cue ball.

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I think any player may miss shot B, but shot A is almost a hanger. The only real difference is the distance and trying to make that good hit the shot requires.

SPetty
04-30-2004, 06:09 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> That's interesting...

I like A, but not B. <hr /></blockquote>Wow, yes, that's real interesting, and really opens my eyes.

In your second example, I find shot B marginally more difficult than shot A. Both of them look pretty darn easy to me (that is, if there was such a thing as an easy shot. /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif ) Thanks, Popcorn.

Popcorn
04-30-2004, 07:04 PM
I am sorry, in my example, with shot B you are trying to cut in the 5 ball. I did not make it clear.

COEX_FO
05-03-2004, 08:30 PM
Thank you all for your comments and input! I'm please to hear how you did with this one.

The main question asked seemed to be why I would practice this shot. Basically, for me, it covers a few of the fundamentals that I need to always work on; straight stroke, bridge over pocket and it's very repeatable.

It's one that I did cold again last night (after not playing for a week due to my schedule) and I got 4 of the 10 tries. Seems about normal for me.

Again thanks all, I appreciate your responses.

PS. I know there are a million drills to do but I just sort of came up with this one for myself.