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bigshooter
04-29-2004, 02:46 PM
Heres a few facts the media has forgot to mention in its haste to make the Bush administration look as bad as possible.

* Over 400,000 kids now have up-to-date immunizations


* School attendance is up 80% from pre-war levels


* Over 1,500 schools have been renovated and are now rid of weapons that were stored there by Saddam's regime


* The country had its first 2 billion barrel export of oil in August


* Over 4.5 million people have clean drinking water for the first time ever in Iraq


* The country now receives 2 times the electrical power it did before the war


* 100% of the hospitals are open and fully staffed, compared to 35% before the war


* Elections are taking place in every major city, and city councils are in place


* Sewer and water lines have been installed in every major city


* Over 60,000 policemen are patrolling the streets


* Over 100,000 Iraqi civil defense police are securing the country


* Over 80,000 Iraqi soldiers are patrolling the streets side by side with U.S. soldiers


* Over 400,000 people have telephones for the first time ever


* An interim constitution has been signed


* Girls are allowed to attend school


* The rape rooms and torture chambers are shut down for good


Just to name a few!

http://logo.cafepress.com/4/489562.199404.gif

Cueless Joey
04-29-2004, 11:19 PM
I bet they don't mention this on Arabian TV , paper or radio.

t411
04-30-2004, 07:50 AM
http://www.ac.wwu.edu/~stephan/USfatalities.html

Nightstalker
04-30-2004, 07:56 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote t411:</font><hr> http://www.ac.wwu.edu/~stephan/USfatalities.html <hr /></blockquote>
A liberal shock-tool, any fool knows there are casualties associated with war.

Wally_in_Cincy
04-30-2004, 08:16 AM
It's a war. People die. Does this surprise you?

Nightstalker
04-30-2004, 08:38 AM
No kidding, it is just a ploy, yes a ploy, to stir the bleeding-heart emotions of any who would be stirred. Anyone who has 1/2 a brain knows the costs associated with war. None of these people who buy into a ploy such as this have any solid beliefs, they are but sheep following the flock.

MikeM
04-30-2004, 09:07 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bigshooter:</font><hr> Heres a few facts the media has forgot to mention in its haste to make the Bush administration look as bad as possible.

* Over 400,000 kids now have up-to-date immunizations


* School attendance is up 80% from pre-war levels


* Over 1,500 schools have been renovated and are now rid of weapons that were stored there by Saddam's regime


* The country had its first 2 billion barrel export of oil in August


* Over 4.5 million people have clean drinking water for the first time ever in Iraq


* The country now receives 2 times the electrical power it did before the war


* 100% of the hospitals are open and fully staffed, compared to 35% before the war


* Elections are taking place in every major city, and city councils are in place


* Sewer and water lines have been installed in every major city


* Over 60,000 policemen are patrolling the streets


* Over 100,000 Iraqi civil defense police are securing the country


* Over 80,000 Iraqi soldiers are patrolling the streets side by side with U.S. soldiers


* Over 400,000 people have telephones for the first time ever


* An interim constitution has been signed


* Girls are allowed to attend school


* The rape rooms and torture chambers are shut down for good


Just to name a few!

http://logo.cafepress.com/4/489562.199404.gif <hr /></blockquote>


How did you learn any of this without the "big bad media"?


MM

BTW we are the media!

Nightstalker
04-30-2004, 09:14 AM
I guess it came from an actual soldier's letter originally.
Link to the letter (http://cgibin.rcn.com/fillmore.dnai/cgi-bin/forum.pl?read=7463)

Qtec
04-30-2004, 10:11 AM
From the same link.

[ QUOTE ]
Soldier's Letter almost certainly FAKE
Posted By: Andrew J. Lazarus &lt;drlaz@attglobal.net&gt;
Saturday, 24 April 2004, at 2:17 p.m.

In Response To: Soldier's Letter (Crabcakes)

Almost certainly a fake

Now, I'm biased, I suppose, being an opponent of the Iraq War, but this letter contains several obvious inaccuracies and I wonder if it's even genuine. There is a 234th Signal Battalion from Iowa and it is in Iraq, but there is no Ray Reynolds in whitepages.com for Denison, Iowa. You'll also notice that although John Kerry is dared to write to an email address, the address itself isn't supplied.

Now, as to the inaccuracies: The CPA itself says electricity is just barely above prewar levels, far from double. Cite: http://abcnews.go.com/sections/wnt/GoodMorningAmerica/Iraq_anniversary_electricity_040314.html

The letter was surely written last month before the Iraqi civil defense and plice forces he speaks so highly of, deserted or even went over to the other side in Fallujah. (cite: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=FA0711FA395C0C7A8CDDAD0894DC4044 82)

The idea Iraqis had to be told to wash their hands before eating is preposterous: it's in the Koran. [cite omitted]

Girls *always* attended school in Iraq and the secular Baath-imposed culture was relatively free in matters of women's employment and public dress. This sort of sexism was not one of Saddam's many faults. The author has confused Iraq with Taliban Afghanistan. (In his defense, so did George W. Bush.)

Telephone service has not even been restored to subscribers who lost service from damage during the war last year or because of infrastructure decay before that. The idea that 400,000 NEW subscribers have service seems extremely unlikely. [Cite: http://www.usaid.gov/press/factsheets/2004/fs040226.html , as of late February 2004]

The US Government puts out a weekly newsletter of "Accomplishments to Date" in Iraq. (Most recent: http://www.usaid.gov/iraq/updates/apr04/iraq_fs28_042004.pdf ). The water system has been "repaired" and delivery has been "improved" but there is no mention of even one person getting water for the first time, much less 4.5 MM.

As you can see here [ cite http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3148997.stm ] estimates for oil export were less than 1.2 Million barrels/day in mid-August 2003. The 2 billion figure is sheerest fantasy.

I guess these B.S. numbers are more fun than dealing with five more US soldiers dead today.

<hr /></blockquote>


Unlike YOUR quote, this guy shows you his sources.


Q

Nightstalker
04-30-2004, 10:13 AM
Whatever, spinster. You still have not answered my thread. I wonder why...

t411
04-30-2004, 10:21 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr> It's a war. People die. Does this surprise you? <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue"> Not one bit.</font color> /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

t411
04-30-2004, 10:31 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Nightstalker:</font><hr> No kidding, it is just a ploy, yes a ploy, to stir the bleeding-heart emotions of any who would be stirred. Anyone who has 1/2 a brain knows the costs associated with war. None of these people who buy into a ploy such as this have any solid beliefs, they are but sheep following the flock. <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue"> Nightstalker, I must tell you again that you don't know me and if you did I bet you would think I am quit a nice guy..... with many solid beliefs.</font color> /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Nightstalker
04-30-2004, 10:46 AM
I believe you, I just do not like how people whine about the casualties of war when that is the nature of it. It makes me sick.

Nightstalker
04-30-2004, 11:13 AM
Q, is it always your habit to whine about politics outside your country, or anything else for that matter, like some girl who got groped in her bf's car? Here's a free tip: be a man, grow a sack, get a life.

Ross
04-30-2004, 12:14 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Nightstalker:</font><hr> Q, is it always your habit to whine about politics outside your country, or anything else for that matter, like some girl who got groped in her bf's car? Here's a free tip: be a man, grow a sack, get a life. <hr /></blockquote>

In this case, Q posted something very relevant to the discussion. Yet you attack him personally for this. IMO, part of being a man also includes respecting honest differences in opinion.

Nightstalker
04-30-2004, 12:42 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ross:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Nightstalker:</font><hr> Q, is it always your habit to whine about politics outside your country, or anything else for that matter, like some girl who got groped in her bf's car? Here's a free tip: be a man, grow a sack, get a life. <hr /></blockquote>

In this case, Q posted something very relevant to the discussion. Yet you attack him personally for this. IMO, part of being a man also includes respecting honest differences in opinion. <hr /></blockquote>
Hey look, I don't know who you are chum but I guess you missed the threads where he attacked me! IMO, part of making an educated reply includes doing a little research. No offense. /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Ross
04-30-2004, 02:13 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Nightstalker:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ross:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Nightstalker:</font><hr> Q, is it always your habit to whine about politics outside your country, or anything else for that matter, like some girl who got groped in her bf's car? Here's a free tip: be a man, grow a sack, get a life. <hr /></blockquote>

In this case, Q posted something very relevant to the discussion. Yet you attack him personally for this. IMO, part of being a man also includes respecting honest differences in opinion. <hr /></blockquote>
Hey look, I don't know who you are chum but I guess you missed the threads where he attacked me! IMO, part of making an educated reply includes doing a little research. No offense. /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif <hr /></blockquote>

No offense taken. Note that I specifically started my post with "In this case" precisely to avoid getting into defending or not defending other actions by Q. I think my point stands - in this case Q posted something very relevant to the issue being discussed, and did not deserve to be attacked for doing so.

I also think part of "being a man" is not using another person's perceived bad behavior as a justification for doing the same. But more to the point, I've found liberal/conservative arguments only useful if each party is willing to admit that there is some validity to each point of view and if the participants are open to taking in new information. "You're an idiot" posts and counterposts don't usually lead to much of value that I can see.

Nightstalker
04-30-2004, 02:30 PM
Look, no kidding about what you said but my point is why police me and noone else? What triggered you to come here and police me when cheesemouse and Q have been insulting me all week? I sense some extreme bias in you and from others here as well and I don't care for it. Thanks.

Ross
04-30-2004, 04:17 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Nightstalker:</font><hr> Look, no kidding about what you said but my point is why police me and noone else? What triggered you to come here and police me when cheesemouse and Q have been insulting me all week? I sense some extreme bias in you and from others here as well and I don't care for it. Thanks. <hr /></blockquote>

It's nothing personal against you. I just haven't read the "Non-pool related" forum for quite awhile. I started reading this thread titled "Facts about Iraq." Some claims were made, Q posted a blurb that credibly challenged the accuracy of some of the claims, and then you and perhaps another poster attacked Q personally. I just posted my own personal objections to this degradation of what could be a useful, informative discussion. I wasn't commenting on events that happened in other threads or at previous times or your character as a person. And I don't think I have a responsibility to research other threads before commenting about this particular interchange.

I will attempt to refrain from responding to this thread since I'm sure this is of little interest to the rest of CCB'ers. Feel free to point out the error of my ways, Nightstalker.

Ross

pooljunkie73
04-30-2004, 04:19 PM
In all due respect Nightstalker, both of you are acting like kids in a playground. I can picture a little Nightstalker saying to Q, " My Dad can beat up your Dad."

Kent Mc.

Nostroke
04-30-2004, 05:09 PM
I assume these facts came from the same source as the information on the Weapons of Mass Destruction?

Nightstalker
04-30-2004, 06:48 PM
It's ok, but you are failing to see the bigger picture when you just look at one thread. In order to correctly assess the matter you must read other threads, you're only cheating us and yourself when you fail to do that. When you do like you did here you just show how closed your eyes are to the whole enchilada brother, now go open them eyes up k? Anyway, if you want some substance I will get some for ya since you are calling for it. Just don't go whining and crying about where it came from, otherwise you have not a damn leg to stand on when you try to attack me for attacking your little sources k?

Nightstalker
04-30-2004, 06:53 PM
"Now, I'm biased, I suppose, being an opponent of the Iraq War..."

Nothing more needs to be said about the little whining airbag who wrote it. He admits his obvious bias so why the hell should anyone believe him anymore than they believe the supposed writer of the letter? What makes him a better source of information than the other guy?

Nightstalker
04-30-2004, 07:03 PM
http://www.countrygoldusa.com/soldiers_letter.asp

Qtec
04-30-2004, 10:04 PM
What has this letter got to do with the original post?

Q

eg8r
04-30-2004, 10:19 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote q:</font><hr> What has this letter got to do with the original post? <hr /></blockquote> Boy if that ain't the pot calling the kettle black. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r &lt;~~sorry for the poor grammar

Nightstalker
04-30-2004, 10:23 PM
Ahhh, the joys of hypocrisy. /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif