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Nostroke
04-30-2004, 05:05 PM
I just got back from Florida and picked up my car at a private lot (Avistar Parking at JFK). The entire driver side door and back panel was crashed and the Parking lot is denying they did it. It has to be at least $2K in damage.They say the damage was indicated "on the ticket". They obviously put the info on the ticket after they crashed the car. They also said it was "old" and pointed to rust in the damage. I think maybe it's not even rust, that they altered it to look like rust or maybe it did rust in the 11 days they had the car. When i brought the car there the guy walked around the car and said everything is ok but didnt give me anything. I then walked around the entire car to verify it and there was nothing but the previous license plate damage.

Im having Acura look at it tomorrow and give me an avadavit on the "rust" or anything else that will help. The Parking lot gave me a claim form but said they would see me in court so obviously they are not going to pay. I had the Police come but they wouldnt even make up report because it was "civil matter" but i did get badge numbers/names just in case.

If anyone has any ideas on how to nail these bastards, please pass them on. I am not going through my Insurance as it will just cost me double in the end that way. Thanks

Barbara
04-30-2004, 05:34 PM
Dave,

Do they have video surveillance of your car coming into the lot? Oooo, that would be a good thing. But you have to act quickly since they may recycle the tapes every week or two weeks.

Plus, it was raining a lot within the past couple of weeks, but I don't think that's long enough for rust to develop. I could be wrong. Is Fred A out there?

Did they have the keys to your car or did you? It makes a difference. If they have the keys, no matter what they declare in their signs, they are responsible for any damage or theft to your car. If they didn't have the keys, then you have to argue the sh*t out of it.

Personally, I want to see this on Judge Judy!!! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Barbara

Nostroke
04-30-2004, 06:28 PM
If they did have video surveillance, u can bet that tape is erased now- Id have to get a subpoena i guess even if it was not erased, but maybe subpoenas are just in criminal; cases- i dont know

Yes Barb they had the keys and they conveniently waited for every other car to be brought out and all other customers gone before they showed up with mine. They knew the scene that was to follow.

AT first when i saw the car coming i thought it wasn't mine, then i realized it was mine and i was upset but i NEVER thought they would deny they had done it. I went completely nuts when they did. Nearly had a heart attack from the stress. I yelled til i was hoarse with each denial from that bastard. I don't think i ever was so angry in my life-The guy was just tellin me to my face in so many words that he was gonna screw me.

The fact that the ticket was altered to show the damage is proof that they knew they did it and were trying to cover it up-I know it and they know it and im still screwed!

SPetty
05-01-2004, 06:58 AM
This totally sucks. I rarely believe suing helps, but in this case, I'd recommend getting a lawyer and sueing them. Very publicly. Call your local TV "consumer advocate" reporters and get them on the case. Call the BBB and file a report.

Eleven days is enough time for rust to form. Did anyone else see your car the day before you parked it?

Nostroke
05-01-2004, 07:25 AM
Yes im sure the building super saw it and id had it at the Acura dealer sometime pretty close to my departure. Im checking that out today. As for the rust. It just doesn't look right.

I have an article from finishing.com on how to accelerate rust on a vehicle. Ive had some dings before on past Acuras and Hondas and they never got rust. In fact i had one shopping cart ding that i used touch up paint on and one that i did not. When i went to trade it in- the appraiser said the touch-up looked worse than the one that was left alone. I said, well i wanted to prevent rust. He said "these are acuras-they don't rust" And indeed the other ding had not in all that time. However when i told my current Acura guy about this current situation and that i was coming in today, he didn't make such a blanket statement. Thanks for all your tips.

Barbara
05-01-2004, 07:51 AM
Go get 'um Dave!!

Possession is 9/10ths of the law - when a garage has your keys to the vehicle, they are responsible for any theft of damage to the vehicle. I remeber watching a TV judge rule on some years ago.

Go after them because these SOBs think they can get away with this sh*t all the time!! Sue them for the whole friggin cost of the car!!

Barbara

Nostroke
05-01-2004, 12:07 PM
I plan to Barb- Unfortunately or fortunately Acura advised that it was rust and they didnt think an accelerant was used as the smash was down to the metal and that rust can then develop within hours if it got wet. Thay are going to give me a letter on that and they did give me proof that car was AOK on 4/14. That still leaves 6 days open for the damage before it got to the lot. Im hoping that there is a tape showing me leaving my own garage (apt)on the 20th but i doubt it still exists. I called the Super but of course it's saturday and he is nowhere around.
ILL let you know. Thanks again

TomBrooklyn
05-01-2004, 04:31 PM
Take it to court. Small claims is good up to about $3000.00 and it is generally quite easy to bring a case there. They usually have evening hours. Judges have people lie to them every day. Many of them are good at telling when someone is lying and someone is telling the truth. You do not need to prove your case beyond a reasonable doubt like a criminal case. The standard of proof is much lower, and judges have discretion to consider who they think is lying in a "my word against his word" situation.

Collect and bring as much evidence as you can. This will help your case tremendously even if your evidence is not fully conclusive. Have those police badge numbers with you. Make notes of the incident, the sooner the better, and keep them. Judges value pictures and papers highly. Judges realize that a normal person does not call the police for no reason. She would have to think you are a scam artist to do such a thing. She is not likely to think this unless she is given some reason to. Letters about the vehicle even six days before the incidence will help.

An experience body repairman can probably tell with some level of accuracy how long rust has been developing. A letter from a licenced auto body shop would be very helpful. A ticket that shows the damage on the lot's copy, but not your copy will not hold much weight unless you signed off on it before you left the lot. Normally, a customer is given a copy of those damage sketches. Aquire one or more and bring to court to illustrate.

=TomBk

Nostroke
05-01-2004, 06:21 PM
Thanks Tom- Im gathering most of what you said. I also have a plan for getting info on the damage. They must have 15-20 near min wage employees. If i can get one of them on my side-It's game over im sure. Thanks for the encouragement about the small claims situation- I had no idea how that went. thanks again

PQQLK9
05-01-2004, 06:37 PM
I'm thinking that if the damage was there when they took possesion they would have noted it and had you sign off on it.
I also remember a case very similar on The Peoples Court and Judge Wapner ruled in favor of the customer. They are still responsible even if they have a sign posted saying that they are not. Good luck to you.

SpiderMan
05-03-2004, 12:03 PM
Nostroke,

I would definitely get your insurance involved. They might become involved in the suit because it is their loss if the guys don't pay up.

I would be surprised if your rates increased over a claim like this, since you were not at fault. I had three claims in four years for theft and vandalism on my Corvette, and no surcharge. The claims averaged about $2,000 each (broken window, stolen targa top). I have State Farm insurance, if that matters.

Actually, I got a discount because my agent convinced me to have the tops engraved with the VIN.

SpiderMan

TomBrooklyn
05-03-2004, 12:45 PM
I had a vehicle that got hit when it was parked. I got a police report and they took the other guys info, but they didn't take down my licence number because I wasn't driving. It was not applicable. My insurance paid and presumably went after their insurance. There was no surcharge because of it. =TomBk

CarolNYC
05-04-2004, 03:29 AM
Dave,
This is just UNBELIEVABLE!
If you had FULL coverage on your car, then the insurance company has pictures of your car-I would contact my insurance.
One time, three kids ,in a Cadillac Escalade,came around the bend on an icy night, slammed into the back of Jims ole 86 suburban station wagon,crushed it like an accordian and in turn, sent it into the back of my car-they landed on my front lawn,UNHURT! If my daughters Elantra woulda been there, they definitely woulda hit and flew over the top of it-I think the height of the wagon saved their lives-anyways, insurance company came,totalled the wagon, cut Jim a check for 2500(which was cool-he paid 500 for the car) gave me an intrepid for the week while my car was being repaired-nothing happened to my insurance-they handled the whole thing!
I wish you alot of luck!
Carol

Nostroke
05-04-2004, 12:00 PM
Thanks guys but

I had my Airbags stolen twice within 2 years back around 99. It was parked in my apt garage and several other vehicles got hit too. MY GPS unit, all my CD's, an Electric razor (without rechrge cord)and a bunch of other stuff was stolen each time. None of the contents was covered. It cost me personally over a thousand each time and my insurance paid over $3k and i was told they couldnt hold it against me. Well they dropped me at renewal time and when i went to other companies they found a single ticket for crossing a yellow line which they sited and the 2 claims. Many companies refused to take me as a customer entirely "we are sorry sir we would not insure you at this time". Others priced a year to $2800. I am paying $2500 now and have for the last 3 years or so at least.

There is some distinction that Insurance companies make that allows them to hold against you what they say they cant hold agaist you. Its goes something like this. "No we are not holding those claims against you but because of them you are not ELIGIBLE for our better pricing". Hard to believe I know.

Anyway That yellow line thing is gone now but of course i got another ticket in Bingahmton NY in 12/01 so it just never ends and im not going to prolong it by submitting another claim. Thanks again

Wally_in_Cincy
05-04-2004, 12:23 PM
My parents had homeowners insurance with Ohio Casualty for 36 years. They had one claim for a lightning strike in 1985.

They had 2 claims in 2002. One for a $900 theft. One for $1000 vandalism. Ohio Casualty dropped them like a hot potato.

Nostroke
05-04-2004, 12:57 PM
Dirtbags for sure.
I guess you pretty much get ONE FREE CLAIM per decade or so. Any thing else they will hold agaianst you or drop you.

When i filed my second airbag claim, they actually had some investigator call me and I had to go to his office where this ex detective questioned me. If i hadn't brought the newspaper article showing that i wasn't the only car or garage hit, Im sure they were ready to conclude i had stolen my own airbags, perhaps in cahoots with the body shop.

Wally_in_Cincy
05-04-2004, 01:15 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Nostroke:</font><hr> Dirtbags for sure... <hr /></blockquote>

It's happening all over. Many states, including Ohio, have had to institute a state-guaranteed program. The insurance companies administer the policies still but they are only liable up to a certain (small) amount. After that the taxpayers are liable. I hope a hurricane does not hit Ohio /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif. My taxes will go up.

Nostroke
05-04-2004, 01:30 PM
In Florida i went to a Doctor-the first time seeing him- I had to sign a waiver acknowledging that he had NO MALPRACTICE INSURANCE. Some DR's cant afford the rates and this is the way they are handling it there. I signed it becasue i only had a sinus infection. As for the solution i dont know but some jury awards are pretty outrageous. What is that category "alienation of affection "? or something where you get paid an additional couple of million because your wife won't screw you anymore?

Pretty crazy - Hell no one seems to want to screw me (except the parking lot) and i can't seem to collect a nickel!

SPetty
08-04-2004, 10:33 AM
Hi Nostroke,

I saw over on the CCB side that you were taking the bastards to court.

How about giving us an update? What have you done and what's going on now? And don't forget to update us after the court date!

Nostroke
08-04-2004, 01:24 PM
Thursday is my second court appearance. The first one was a month ago. I showed up and so did they and we both demanded a decision "by the court" as opposed to arbitration and we were given 8/5 as the reappear date. I hope it is the final trial date but who knows.

I dont know much about the procedure but it sounded like id have to compromise with an arbitrator. I'm not willing to do that because as it stands, even if i win, all i get is what he should have given me to begin with for the damage. No punitive damages or collateral damages or any other costs, rental car, time etc. are applicable in SC Court as far as i know.

So even if i win, there is no incentive for this creep to change his ways in the future. If i were to take a compromise, it would really tell him he was doing things right (in his twisted mind) and even lessen the incentive to change.

I have been thinking about it and i know im being a pessimist but i think im gonna lose. When i started going off about them trashing my car, the guy came running out with a camera yelling "look at the rust, that is old.. blah blah blah". Until recently i had been thinking that he was going to use those photos as evidence that the damage was old. (i have 2 affadavits to the contrary). Now im convinced that he will say that these are the "before photos" of my car at drop off. The location where the pics were taken are the "car pick-up area" rather than the "drop-off" area but i don't know that ill be able to prove that to the court. I dont even know if the pics show more than the car. Anyway thanks for asking and I will give an update early Friday morning probably.

Ross
08-04-2004, 02:12 PM
Nostroke,

This may sound obvious, but based on my own experience, my advice is when you present your case in court be sure to SPELL OUT IN EXCRUCIATING DETAIL ALL OF THE EVIDENCE in your favor. Have notes and don't leave anything out that you might wish you said later. You have to give the judge a lot of reasons he/she can use to decide for you. The judge usually doesn't ask many questions to get at the truth - it's not like Judge Judy! LOL. Its a bit unnerving as they usually sit silently and it's like talking to a wall, so you have to just keep plugging away.

The good news is that since this is a civil trial, you don't have to prove you're right, you just have to show that the preponderance of the evidence is in your favor.

One bit of warning. Even if you win in court, you may find it difficult to collect. I won a slam-dunk case in small claims court for about $1200 in the '80s. I left court feeling elated. Then I went to collect and the guy's employer said he no longer worked there, then his phone number was disconnected, and so on... I would have had to hire a lawyer to help me collect the money, but of course that would have cost more than I would collect.

I sure don't want to discourage you, but I thought I would warn you about this potential problem so you could think about it ahead of time. And I don't know the solution, but maybe someone else does and can give you some good advice.

Of course you may already know most or all of this.

In any case, I hope you kick butt and justice wins out! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

TomBrooklyn
08-04-2004, 04:12 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Nostroke:</font><hr> Now im convinced that he will say that these are the "before photos" of my car at drop off. <hr /></blockquote>Hi, you should hope he says that. Then the judge or you will ask him if they take photos of all damaged cars. Yes? Prove it. Show us some other pics. Uhh no, uhh... Goodbye credibility.

Rod
08-04-2004, 06:16 PM
[ QUOTE ]
One bit of warning. Even if you win in court, you may find it difficult to collect. I won a slam-dunk case in small claims court for about $1200 in the '80s. I left court feeling elated. Then I went to collect and the guy's employer said he no longer worked there, then his phone number was disconnected, and so on... I would have had to hire a lawyer to help me collect the money, but of course that would have cost more than I would collect.

<hr /></blockquote>

That is very true since almost 80 percent of judgments are not satisfied. Sad but true, winning is one issue, collecting is another since the court will not enforce the judgment. A lawyer will eat up a small judgment in a hurry.

If however the person is in good standing, home owner, working etc., they likely will pay, if not a little persuasion is helpful. Items like, seize assets, bank accounts etc., garnish wages or a lien on property to name a few.

You don't need to be a lawyer, anyone can do such but you do need a fair idea of how the system works. Running them down or a skip trace handles that part unless they fell off the earth. Ross, in your case it was probably a default judgment, just a guess, (the person was a no show). There the ones most likely to skip out. Doesn't matter, it's a big disappointment to win and not be paid. I certainly hope Nostroke wins and gets paid.

Rod

Ross
08-04-2004, 09:03 PM
Yeah, your right Rod - he was a no show, the little mf'er. At least Nostroke knows where this guy's place is and could always go and picket his business on weekends!

Nostroke
08-04-2004, 10:14 PM
First rule of trial lawyer- never ask a question you dont know the answer to. Maybe that is what that camera is for-then what? Ill deliver the knock-out blow to myself! I got a bad feeling about this whole thing now.

PS-Yea i know winning and collecting are 2 different things-I dont really expect these dirtbags to pay right up if i win.

Nostroke
08-06-2004, 08:15 AM
postponed til 9/21-no judge available

Rich R.
08-06-2004, 08:24 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Nostroke:</font><hr> postponed til 9/21-no judge available <hr /></blockquote>
At least the judge is a pool fan. He postponed it until after the U.S. Open. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

sliprock
08-10-2004, 08:09 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Nostroke:</font><hr>
PS-Yea i know winning and collecting are 2 different things-I dont really expect these dirtbags to pay right up if i win. <hr /></blockquote>

I may be wrong, but, I think that you can ask the judge for some kind of certification if you win and this will allow you to put a lean on this guy's property. He might not want to pay, but if he ever wants to trade cars or sell a property, he will have to make good on the lean. It might be something that you could look into. Good Luck

Nostroke
09-21-2004, 06:05 PM
The guy showed the last 2 times but tonite he was a no-show. The Court previously announced that if the Defendant didnt show, the plaintiff (me) did not automatically win, he still had to make his case before an Arbitrator.

So when the guy didnt show, they send me to another coutroom where i spoke with an arbitrator (i think) for literally 30 seconds. He had a form with the defendants name on it where he was advising him that he lost as he didnt show. The only thing is though he didnt tell me that. He said I would be advised by mail in a few days.

Also he wouldnt listen to me when i tried to explain that i had an estimate and a paid bill (for fixing car) and the paid bill was $300 less because i hadnt fixed everything yet. He didnt want to hear it and rudely sent me away and grabbed the papers of the next guy in line. SO i think i won but i wont collect for the damaged wheel, just what i had fixed already. I think I will have to get a lien to get paid though but i hear if i have a judgement, the lien is pretty easy. We shall see.

Rich R.
09-22-2004, 03:24 AM
Good for you Dave.

At least, I hope it is good for you, if you did win. /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

You really don't win, until you get the money. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

catscradle
09-22-2004, 05:38 AM
After reading this whole thread, all I can say is their sure are plenty of losers (none of them pool players of course, right, sure). Why didn't the guy just stand up like a man an say "I f#$%#(d up your car, I'll make it right". It is only a car, but it is nevertheless symptomatic of what is wrong. People not meeting their responsibilities. Men and women (boys and girls) not taking responsibility for their sexual behaviour. People not taking responsibility for their legitimate debts. People not taking responsibility for themselves. Sure some people are born with an easier life, but that is still not an excuse for irresponsibility. When we bought our first house my wife also happened to get pregnant with our first children and left her job. To buy groceries we were rolling pennies we'd accumulated over years, but we paid our mortgage and our charge cards and our telephone bill etc. I know most people are responsible, but those who aren't surely do wreck havoc.
Oh well, that's my morning rant. /ccboard/images/graemlins/mad.gif

Nostroke
09-22-2004, 08:16 AM
Im with you Cats- Even when i saw my trashed car being pulled around for me and finally realizing it was mine, i never thought the guy would deny doing it- I just thought what a pain this is going to be to deal with his Insurance, get the car fixed etc. I never thought he would deny responsibility. That is when i went nuts. I started screaming and didnt stop for 10 minutes. There is no honor anymore, among theives or anyone else for the most part.

Nostroke
10-01-2004, 11:02 AM
I have a Judgement!!

I received it today. It is for $2790- $300 more than i expected!!

I am so happy about this but the damn thing does say he can appeal the decision. I have real good evidence if he does but Im hoping it's over and i get paid. Im supposed to get paid within 30 days and if i dont i have the instructions on how to get a lien etc.

Also in the last 3 weeks i have found two five dollar bills on the ground (one last Night) and a twenty. Three $$ finds in three weeks and in the previous 10 years none!!

Im hoping im on a roll!! Im buying some lottery tickets tonite!! Ill keep you posted.

highsea
10-01-2004, 12:01 PM
Nostroke. It sounds to me like this guy doesn't even have insurance. What business would go to court to contest a $3,000 claim if they had insurance? It doesn't make sense.

Good luck getting your money, I would start preparing those lien papers if it was me...

Wally_in_Cincy
10-01-2004, 12:14 PM
The last time I found money was in 1988 as I was walking to the store. A $20 bill. Right after I picked it up a fat kid from the neighborhood came running out of the store with a terrified look on his face. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I gave it back to him.

Good luck. I hope you get your dough.

Rod
10-01-2004, 12:47 PM
Good for you, I hope he pays. I don't know about the laws in your state but a lien in many cases just means if he sells property you should get paid. However if there are outstanding liens you never know. Sometimes it could force a sale but like I say I don't know your state laws.

What you can do if necessary is garnish wages or seize bank accounts if he's working or has any money. That would be my approach in most cases because it's quick cash. Lets hope it doesn't come to that and he pays. Good Luck.

Rod

SPetty
10-01-2004, 12:49 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Nostroke:</font><hr> I have a Judgement!!<hr /></blockquote>Congratulations, Nostroke! I hope they give it up and that you never have to do business with them again.

Ross
10-01-2004, 02:12 PM
Congratulations, Nostroke, on slogging through the justice system to get your judgement! Now I hope you can get you money. Keep us posted.

PQQLK9
10-01-2004, 03:52 PM
Good for you and thanks for keeping us informed.

Nostroke
10-01-2004, 11:23 PM
Thanks everyone.

I really was on a roll. I hadnt gone through all my mail when i made that last post- Believe it or not, in the same batch of mail i got a $500 Real Estate Tax Refund that i wasnt expecting at all AND someone sent me a notice that they found on the Internet that the NYS "Office of Unclaimed Funds" has an unspecified amount of money for me from 2 Met Life Insurance Policies! Why they couldnt find me is beyond me? Ive only had 3 addresses the last 52 years and they have all been in the same town. Im sending them proof that I am me and we will see what i get.

Sadly I must report though that the roll is now over. I went to the World Summit of Pool and made 6 bets and lost 5 of them. Oh well- It was fun while it lasted and i still have those lottery tickets!

Earl is playing in this UPA event btw and Barry Behrman was there watching and had what seemed to be a very cordial discussion with Charlie Wiliiams!! Things just may be coming together in Men's Pool at last! Hip Hip Hooray!

Nostroke
10-27-2004, 12:10 PM
Well it has been 36 days since i got "The Judgement" and of course i haven't seen a nickel. At this point i was supposed to contact a City Marshal for help according to the papers i got. SO after 1/2 hour trying to find who was a City Marshal in Queens, i finally found one. There was no answer. ON call #3 i allegedly got a Marshals office and was switched around til i finally got the manager who wanted to know if i had paid by check?

To make a long story short she wanted me to provide her with the Parking Lot's bank account number!!??? Anyway i wound up ending that call pretty fast and it looks like it will be a cold day in hell when i get paid!

Ross
10-27-2004, 12:32 PM
Dont give up now, Nostroke. You've come too far. Keep calling until you get straight answers about how you need to proceed. (In the old days before the Repubs put a kibosh on it you could call Legal Services and get free advice on situations like this, but alas no more.)

Rod
10-27-2004, 02:12 PM
Nostroke,

I don't know the Rules of Procedure in NY but is near the same everywhere. You need to call the clerk of the court and ask.

They can levy a bank account which is probably why she asked. You can get there account number if someone you knew wrote them a check. There are other ways or you can pay someone. This company obviously has money, paying employees, utilities, rent etc. so hiding it and carry on a business would be very difficult.

Rod

Nostroke
10-29-2004, 02:06 PM
Thanks Ross/Rod.

I got some energy today and i tried another City Marshal. From the moment i got their office, i knew i had reached people who knew what they were talking about. I went to their office, filled out a one page form, paid $25 and they are going after this creep. Said it would take 30 days. Im still not counting the cash but at least I still got a shot. Ill update everyone in 30 days.

Nostroke
12-31-2004, 04:14 PM
OK folks- here is how the Small Claims system works for the little guy who got f*cked.

IM in Florida now til March.

3 days ago i got a call from the City Marshal. The creep who trashed my car now has a "show cause" order (whatever that means) and i have to be back in court on 2/7 otherwise i "automatically lose" and my judgement is overturned.

I wrote for an extension but i dont even know if i am allowed to do that. Nice huh?

Barbara
12-31-2004, 04:24 PM
Dave,

That sucks! Why should you be penalized for what someone did against you?

Barbara

SnakebyteXX
12-31-2004, 04:42 PM
[ QUOTE ]
The creep who trashed my car now has a "show cause" order (whatever that means) and i have to be back in court on 2/7 otherwise i "automatically lose" and my judgement is overturned.

<hr /></blockquote>

[ QUOTE ]
Order to Show Cause Definition

order to show cause definition an order to show cause is an order a asking a party to appear in court to explain why the party took a certain action or why the court should or should not grant some relief.
<hr /></blockquote>

link (http://www.legal-definitions.com/M,%20N,%20O,%20P/order-to-show-cause.htm)

Regarding automatically losing if you don't appear - this is a normal condition set forth by most small claims courts. It applies to the guy you're filing against too. If he fails to show on the date that he's supposed to appear before the court he automatically loses.

Now for the bad news... the problem with most small claims court judgements is that even if you win they are nearly impossible to enforce. If the guy doesn't want to pay damages there's very little the court can do to make him. If you win and he still refuses to pay you can legally put a lien on his car - or his paycheck - or what ever other real property he may own. However that extra headache will be up to you to pursue - the court is highly unlikely to do it for you.

The bad news about small claims court is that it's pretty toothless. While you may get a lot of emotional satisfaction if you win a judgement against someone in the long run it's possible that you may never get paid.

Snake &lt;--- been there - done that - never got the money.

onepocketfanatic
01-01-2005, 12:01 AM
My ex was is an attourney. She basically went through the same thing you are. She put a lien on this guy, but the hitch is (at least here in Texas) that you have to renew the lein like every 3 years. She continued to renew the lein, and in 6 years she finally got paid. She made it obvious that she was not going away, so the guy finally just paid. You may not get your money asap, but if you keep the lein on him at least you have a shot at recovering some cash. Good luck and hang in there.

highsea
01-01-2005, 01:17 AM
This guy obviously has an attorney helping him out. Nobody files motions for show cause orders in small claims.[ QUOTE ]
order to show cause

n. a judge's written mandate that a party appear in court on a certain date and give reasons, legal and/or factual, (show cause) why a particular order should not be made. This rather stringent method of making a party appear with proof and legal arguments is applied to cases of possible contempt for failure to pay child support, sanctions for failure to file necessary documents or appear previously, or to persuade the judge he/she should not grant a writ of mandate against a governmental agency.<hr /></blockquote>

When you get to court, be prepared to give your entire case. But remember, the show cause order itself is only asking you for a legal reason why the court should not modify or reverse the judgement.

Your legal argument against this is simply that the guy did not show up when he was ordered to the first time, and therefore forfeited his right to challenge. So the only thing he can contest now is the amount of the judgement. Have your repair bills handy to show that the judgement was a fair one.

Very important: Tell the court you never received your notification of the appeal. It has to be filed within a specific time, like 30 days. Your copy of the judgement should say what the timeframe is. Find out if he filed his appeal within the timeframe given, because if he didn't, you can just ask for a summary judgement.

Try to avoid making your original case, as you have already won the decision. Focus on the legal arguments that the court has no reason to modify or reverse the judgement. The court will rule in your favor providing you can give them a legal reason to do so.

edit to add: The more I think about this, the stranger it sounds. Are you sure you didn't miss a court date? Is it possible that he appealed and you never got the notice because you were out of state? It's very odd behavior for a judge to issue a show cause order in your circumstances. Usually you would just get a notice of the appeal and a new court date.

Vagabond
01-02-2005, 07:17 AM
<hr /></blockquote>It's very odd behavior for a judge to issue a show cause order in your circumstances. <hr /></blockquote>

Howdy,
Some lower court Judges do not care for the rules/laws/Ethics.They are GOD.
vagabond /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Nostroke
01-03-2005, 04:10 PM
Thanks Highsea for the info- Im printing it out here at Kinkos.

No i did not miss any court dates- The last date i had was when i won the Judgement. I waited 30+ days- got no cash or further word from the court. I hired a Marshal to collect and maybe 45 days after that i heard of the show cause order and the new court date. I still havent gotten anything in writing. The Marshal just left the message on my voice mail- anyway thanks again

catscradle
01-04-2005, 01:13 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Nostroke:</font><hr> Thanks Highsea for the info- Im printing it out here at Kinkos.

No i did not miss any court dates- The last date i had was when i won the Judgement. I waited 30+ days- got no cash or further word from the court. I hired a Marshal to collect and maybe 45 days after that i heard of the show cause order and the new court date. I still havent gotten anything in writing. The Marshal just left the message on my voice mail- anyway thanks again <hr /></blockquote>

And the beat goes on! Good luck!

Nostroke
03-28-2005, 07:40 PM
Cant believe what they are doing to me on this. I had another court day tonite for what i thought was the "Show Cause" Order that i originally was supposed to be in court for on 2/7 and i wrote for a postponement as i was 1300 miles away for the winter.

I received a card from the court saying that my next date was 3/28 so i thought my request had been approved. It hadn't. The defendant won the "Show Cause" motion in my absence even though his motion for a show cause was filed 50 days late!!

Tonite was supposed to be the trial itself it turned out, and guess what-the defendant wrote in for a postponement and it was granted. The next date is 5/10.

Im afraid the fix is in. Not sure what im going to do next but it sure is a sad situation when a guy whose car has been trashed gets treated like this.

landshark77
03-28-2005, 07:49 PM
I know this is no constellation, but I sold a guy a car and took a check (yeah I'm dumb). Of course the check was bad and I had already singed the title and he had sold the car the next day. It took 4 years fro me to finally get my money out of him. I had to track him down and BEG the police to arrest him. Then we had court date after court date. I basically had to threaten the assistant prosecuter just to get it taken care of. 4 YEARS later I finally got my money. The guy was charged with FELONY fraud and it took me doing the cops work and an election year for me to get what was owed to me. I'm telling you....being a criminal looks more rewarding everyday.

Nostroke
03-28-2005, 08:32 PM
I actually knew a girl who would 'buy' a car from some poor bastard on the promise that she would "make payments". She was real good looking and an excellent talker and got several cars this way without ever making a payment or being prosecuted.

She also never paid more than the first months rent anywhere and always could find a mom and pop furniture store to furnish her apts with brand new stuff on a promise.

She had plenty of aliases and knew all the tricks- Worked the system for an SSI check every month also of course. She got me for plenty too. In the 20 years i knew her, she did about 5 in prison- shudda been much more- but hey she was good at what she did.

highsea
03-28-2005, 10:00 PM
Nostroke, hang in there!

You should have followed up on your request for the postponement of the show cause hearing! In New York, you can appeal a small claims judgement if it is made by the court, but not if it's made by an arbitrator. Find out how your case was adjudicated! This could be important, because if it was settled by an arbitrator, the appeal is invalid. The appeal has to be filed within 30 days, so you have a solid argument there, and I think you would have won if you had been at the show cause hearing. Since you lost the show cause hearing through default, you may have to go back in and prove your case all over again. Not good.

About lawyers: Both of you are entitled to lawyers at your expense, but you can't recover the legal costs in a judgement. I didn't think this was the case, but I checked, and it is.

There are a couple things you can try, just for the hell of it. First is to file a motion to dismiss the appeal and restore the original judgement based on the fact that he did not file the appeal within the 30 days, as required by law. Attach copies of your judgement, the notice of appeal, and a copy of the statute. Again, if the judgement was made by an arbitrator, this can be also be cause to throw out the appeal, so it's important to get this clear. If you can, use both arguments in the motion. This should be enough to get the appeal thrown out, and you can return to your collection efforts with the judgement intact.

If that doesn't work, you can file another motion to reverse the judgement in the show cause hearing, because you had requested an extension. This is a longshot, because you did not follow up on your request for the extension. This would put you back to the show cause hearing, where you would have to argue the appeal based on the 30 day rule and/or whether the judgement came from an arbitrator.

These motions need to be filed formally in writing for the court to consider them. The court clerk can help you, and there used to be a pleading wizard in MS Word that you can use for a template.

I would file the first motion as soon as possible, because there is a chance that when you get back to court the judge would rule against the appeal, and you wouldn't have to present your case.

The court will try to throw you back into arbitration, and this might not be a bad thing to accept, since there is no appeal after arbitration. At least it would end the run-around with the court. Since you have the first judgement, the odds are in your favor in arbitration. As always, be prepared to argue the entire case whenever you go to court.

Good luck!

Nostroke
03-29-2005, 07:37 AM
Thanks again Highsea. Im off to San Diego this AM so i can only say thanks for now. Talk later.

Nostroke
05-11-2005, 12:06 AM
Tonite I won another Default Judgement vs the Creep who trashed my car. Unfortunately i've learned this means nothing. I doubt ill get paid but i'll keep you guys posted.

CarolNYC
05-11-2005, 02:29 AM
Dave,
Would you like someone to go collect your money for you? /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
Carol /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Rich R.
05-11-2005, 03:00 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Nostroke:</font><hr> Tonite I won another Default Judgement vs the Creep who trashed my car. Unfortunately i've learned this means nothing. I doubt ill get paid but i'll keep you guys posted. <hr /></blockquote>
Keep going after him Dave. Sooner or later he may get tired of you and decide it is better to pay.

Nostroke
05-11-2005, 08:44 AM
I've been thinking about it Carol but this guy may be creepier than anyone i could come up with to collect.
cya in Vegas.

Nostroke
07-30-2005, 08:04 PM
IN june after I won the 2nd Default Jugement in this case, the defendant came with another Show Cause Order and hauled me back to court. He again did not appear at the Hearing he instigated and my default jugement was reinstated.

So I now have another judgement but the defendant has 30 days to appeal via another show cause. I found out that at some point the Judge can declare it final but how many is too many i dont know.

The last three appearances he did not show it cost me 18 hours of time, 240 miles of driving (half during rush hour going to Queens via the Whitstone Bridge)and $33 in tolls.

He on the other hand merely has to amble, at his leisure, to the Courthouse which is 3 miles from his Office, once for every 2 (three hour) appearances that i make and swear out the Show Cause.

Nice huh?

Rich R.
07-31-2005, 06:40 AM
Dave, it seems obvious that he is trying to harass you into giving up the case.
What a sleaze. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Vagabond
08-01-2005, 04:33 AM
He may be sleeze but how about the Lawmakers that made it possible for the sleeze to THRIVE legally.Howabout the people who elected such Lawmakers.well Rich,sometimes I ponder on infinite philosophy/logic.LOL /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Rich R.
08-01-2005, 08:49 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Vagabond:</font><hr> He may be sleeze but how about the Lawmakers that made it possible for the sleeze to THRIVE legally.Howabout the people who elected such Lawmakers.well Rich,sometimes I ponder on infinite philosophy/logic.LOL /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif <hr /></blockquote>
Vagabond, lawmakers are way below the level of "sleeze", on the grand scale of things.
The people who elect the lawmakers are the unsuspecting innocent. /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Chopstick
08-02-2005, 09:33 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rich R.:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Vagabond:</font><hr> He may be sleeze but how about the Lawmakers that made it possible for the sleeze to THRIVE legally.Howabout the people who elected such Lawmakers.well Rich,sometimes I ponder on infinite philosophy/logic.LOL /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif <hr /></blockquote>
Vagabond, lawmakers are way below the level of "sleeze", on the grand scale of things.
The people who elect the lawmakers are the unsuspecting innocent. /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif <hr /></blockquote>

Hey I just heard that terrorists have hijacked a plane load of lawyers and have threatened to release one every hour until their demands are met. /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif