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eg8r
05-05-2004, 07:55 AM
Alright, I am sure someone will do a little investigation to see if this guy really was the doctor Kerry went to see (I do leave a bit open to question since I don't know how much people can say before an investigation is done to verify what they say),but this is possibly more proof Kerry was an opportunist and did everything he could to get out of Vietnam. He obviously did not dodge the draft successfully, and he did work while he was there, but you cannot say, he did not go out of his way to get sent back ASAP. Here is the link (http://www.nationalreview.com/york/york200405041626.asp) to the article. [ QUOTE ]
Some critics of Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry have questioned the circumstances surrounding the first of three Purple Hearts Kerry won in Vietnam. Those critics, among them some of Kerry's fellow veterans, have suggested that a wound suffered by Kerry in December 1968 may have made him technically eligible for a Purple Heart but was not severe enough to warrant serious consideration, even for a decoration that was handed out by the thousands. Whatever the case, Kerry was awarded the Purple Heart, and, along with two others he won later, it allowed him to request to leave Vietnam before his tour of duty was finished.

Kerry was treated for the wound at a medical facility in Cam Ranh Bay. The doctor who treated Kerry, Louis Letson, is today a retired general practitioner in Alabama. Letson says he remembers his brief encounter with Kerry 35 years ago because "some of his crewmen related that Lt. Kerry had told them that he would be the next JFK from Massachusetts." Letson says that last year, as the Democratic campaign began to heat up, he told friends that he remembered treating one of the candidates many years ago. In response to their questions, Letson says, he wrote down his recollections of the time. (Letson says he has had no contacts with anyone from the Bush campaign or the Republican party.) What follows is Letson's memory, as he wrote it.

I have a very clear memory of an incident which occurred while I was the Medical Officer at Naval Support Facility, Cam Ranh Bay.
John Kerry was a (jg), the OinC or skipper of a Swift boat, newly arrived in Vietnam. On the night of December 2, he was on patrol north of Cam Ranh, up near Nha Trang area. The next day he came to sick bay, the medical facility, for treatment of a wound that had occurred that night.

The story he told was different from what his crewmen had to say about that night. According to Kerry, they had been engaged in a fire fight, receiving small arms fire from on shore. He said that his injury resulted from this enemy action.

Some of his crew confided that they did not receive any fire from shore, but that Kerry had fired a mortar round at close range to some rocks on shore. The crewman thought that the injury was caused by a fragment ricocheting from that mortar round when it struck the rocks.

That seemed to fit the injury which I treated.

What I saw was a small piece of metal sticking very superficially in the skin of Kerry's arm. The metal fragment measured about 1 cm. in length and was about 2 or 3 mm in diameter. It certainly did not look like a round from a rifle.

I simply removed the piece of metal by lifting it out of the skin with forceps. I doubt that it penetrated more than 3 or 4 mm. It did not require probing to find it, did not require any anesthesia to remove it, and did not require any sutures to close the wound.

The wound was covered with a bandaid.

Not [sic] other injuries were reported and I do not recall that there was any reported damage to the boat.
<hr /></blockquote> What about the other 2 "wounds". I guess they will be brought up as time goes by.

eg8r

Nightstalker
05-05-2004, 08:04 AM
So he had a "splinter" of shrapnel barely sticking in the skin of his arm, what a wuss. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

nAz
05-05-2004, 08:07 AM
With all these accusations(?) flying around Kerry should just turn down the Demo nomination, Lucky bush has a spotless past and didn't serve in Nam other wise he would never had been President. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Whats the deal with the Doctor?, i hear he may not be the guy that is on the record for treating Kerry.

Nightstalker
05-05-2004, 08:20 AM
Where did you hear that from, nAz? The DNC, NY Times, CNN? /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

nAz
05-05-2004, 08:54 AM
hehe I actually heard it from the lie spewing Hannity last night.

cheesemouse
05-05-2004, 10:54 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote nAz:</font><hr> hehe I actually heard it from the lie spewing Hannity last night. <hr /></blockquote>

You mean Hannity actually asked a journalistic question???...Now I just will not believe that nAz. You must have misunderstood... /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

FACT: Kerry served. Bush bagged it!

eg8r
05-05-2004, 11:06 AM
[ QUOTE ]
With all these accusations(?) flying around Kerry should just turn down the Demo nomination, Lucky bush has a spotless past and didn't serve in Nam other wise he would never had been President. <hr /></blockquote> Bush's platform is not based on Vietnam, Kerry's is. Everytime Kerry speaks he mentions his Vietnam experience, Bush does not. If Kerry thinks his Vietnam experience is so influential in his life, then why can he not be questioned on the validity of his statments, and actions? Why is Bush always brought into the equation? If Kerry stood behind his actions, he would not need to hide behind the fact that Bush did not go to Vietnam. Why is this so tough for you to understand? Kerry did not go willingly and actually fought to stay out of Vietnam, so why do people villify Bush for opting into the National Guard but ignore the fact that Kerry fought to not go into either, but rather head to France to go to school? Why did the liberals fight so hard to ignore the fact that Clinton dodged the draft, but want to bring to light that Bush was in the National Guard? If military service was not an identifying attribute of a successful President when Clinton was running, why has it suddenly become one now? I know you will dodge the questions, so I will help you out...The only reason is because the Libs think they finally have a guy that can win over some of the military votes, so they are pushing it. What they did not know was that Kerry was doing everything in his power, including lying about a wound, to get out. He was a quitter in the very minimalist definition of the word. He quit on the war, and he quit on his troops. Now he wants to stand behind his service while he was there? He wants advertise that he was in Vietnam serving his country? All of this after he came back and called the soldiers murderers and rapists? Which way does the Kerry-wind blow today?

[ QUOTE ]
Whats the deal with the Doctor?, i hear he may not be the guy that is on the record for treating Kerry. <hr /></blockquote> I don't know if this is true or not which is why I made that stipulation in my post. I certainly would not put it past any politician to get someone to stand up and say anything whether it was true or not, and I do understand the Republican group has some bad apples.

eg8r

eg8r
05-05-2004, 11:08 AM
[ QUOTE ]
hehe I actually heard it from the <font color="red"> lie spewing Hannity </font color>last night. <hr /></blockquote> Any examples, or are you trying out some new catchy phrases?

eg8r

nAz
05-05-2004, 11:33 AM
Thanks for answering for me, you do that well. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif I did not know he tried to stay out the military, where did you here this from? if he did he should have gone to the guard like the prez, he probably would be considerd a great leader today if he did.

"Why is Bush always brought into the equation?" Probably because his pundits are always harping on Kerry so i think it is only fair to compare the two especialy during an important election.

" so they are pushing it. What they did not know was that Kerry was doing everything in his power, including lying about a wound, to get out.

Your right people still don't know that because there is no credible proof that he lied. just like there is no credible proof that bush was AWOL during his "tour" or is there?

Nightstalker
05-05-2004, 11:47 AM
nAz, again you need to look at the fact that Kerry is using his Vietnam experience as part of his platform which opens it up to discussion more readily than Bush's who does not use his Vietnam experience as his platform.

nAz
05-05-2004, 12:04 PM
ya i got you dude.

I have to tell you though the fact that Kerry served whether he wanted to be there or not and was wounded no matter how small (hang nail cuased by a rice grain thrown at him by a Viet con) and recieved a Purple heart, which is given out by the military not asked for amkes him a better man then to me then Bush does when it comes to their military past. as to what he said about what was happing over there after he got out well that is ok too becuase he was actually there. anyway it's like beating a dead horse for both sides.

Nightstalker
05-05-2004, 12:32 PM
Our side of it is that if Kerry wants to use it to bolster his support he should have made sure there was some significant substance to it first, which there isn't. Comparing it to Bush's is irrelevant because although he is president, he never tried to claim he was some sort of war hero.

highsea
05-05-2004, 02:10 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> He quit on the war, and he quit on his troops. Now he wants to stand behind his service while he was there? He wants advertise that he was in Vietnam serving his country? All of this after he came back and called the soldiers murderers and rapists?
eg8r <hr /></blockquote>
It gets even better...
[ QUOTE ]
Kerry's Campaign Asked a Veteran
to Change Story

A Vietnam veteran who said he remembers John Kerry participating in a 1971 Kansas City meeting at which an assassination plot was discussed says an official with the Kerry presidential campaign called him this month and pressured him to change his story.
The veteran, John Musgrave, says he was called twice by the head of Veterans for Kerry, John Hurley, while a reporter for the Kansas City Star worked on a follow-up piece to a New York Sun article about the November 1971 meeting of Vietnam Veterans Against the War at which a plot to kill U.S. senators was voted down. Asked by The New York Sun if he felt pressured, Mr. Musgrave said, “In the second call I did.” Mr. Musgrave said Mr. Hurley said Mr. Kerry had told him “he was definitely not in Kansas City.”

According to Mr. Musgrave, Mr. Hurley said, “Why don’t you refresh your memory and call that reporter back?”
A spokesman for Mr. Kerry’s presidential campaign, David Wade, last week issued a statement to the Sun, following a week of denials, that said “we accept” Mr. Kerry’s presence in Kansas City as a “historical footnote.”
By then, the recollections of six witnesses, along with minutes and FBI records, placed Mr. Kerry at the Kansas City meeting.

The rest of the article (http://oregonmag.com/KerryCampaignCoverup.htm)

A related article (http://www.opinionjournal.com/diary/?id=110004881) from the Wall Street Journal <hr /></blockquote>

It is interesting that while Kerry apparently voted against the assassination plot, he never went to the police with the story.

Kerry really shot himself in the foot by dredging up Vietnam in his campaign. At least he is finally earning that PH. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

-CM

eg8r
05-05-2004, 02:53 PM
I never brought this up, because he quit after this meeting. I never thought about him notifying the police, but I felt his quitting at least signified that he did not agree.

eg8r

eg8r
05-05-2004, 03:02 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for answering for me, you do that well. <hr /></blockquote> No problem, it gets a little old watching you stumble around trying to avoid them. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif [ QUOTE ]
did not know he tried to stay out the military, where did you here this from? <hr /></blockquote> I started an entire thread on this. He tried to get out of the draft by choosing to go to school over in France. When he was denied and forced to join the army he instead decided to enlist in the Navy. He tried pretty hard but they were not going to hear it, he was headed off to Vietnam (his parents were not as influential as some others that have been discussed /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif ).

[ QUOTE ]
"Why is Bush always brought into the equation?" Probably because his pundits are always harping on Kerry so i think it is only fair to compare the two especialy during an important election.
<hr /></blockquote> If Kerry is the subject matter than there should be no need for you to stray and include a comparison with someone else. If your arguments stand on their own, then there would be no need to bring in someone else and try to show your guy as better than the other guy.

[ QUOTE ]
Your right people still don't know that because there is no credible proof that he lied. just like there is no credible proof that bush was AWOL during his "tour" or is there? <hr /></blockquote> There has been more than one soldier on the boat that same day as Kerry said he was shot by enemy fire, and each one of them stated they were never shot at. Kerry was the only one that did the shooting. What part of the credibility of these soldiers do you question? If you are going to take Kerry at face value should you not offer the same to his fellow soldiers who were in the same boat as Kerry when the "incident", which left a finger nail scratch, happened?

eg8r

eg8r
05-05-2004, 03:06 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I have to tell you though the fact that Kerry served whether he wanted to be there or not and was wounded no matter how small (hang nail cuased by a rice grain thrown at him by a Viet con) <font color="red"> and recieved a Purple heart, which is given out by the military not asked for </font color>amkes him a better man then to me then Bush does when it comes to their military past. <hr /></blockquote> Maybe I am not reading this sentence correctly, but are you saying that Kerry did not ask for the purple heart? If so, have you been awake at all lately? Kerry demanded to get a purple heart, after hearing enough of Kerry, his commander told him to do whatever he needed to do. Kerry sure as heck asked for the purple heart. I am sure once we start hearing more about the other two, we will see much of the same. The man never spent a single day in medical but he received enough purple hearts to be shipped home. Doesn't that sound the least bit fishy?

eg8r

highsea
05-05-2004, 03:23 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> I never brought this up, because he quit after this meeting. I never thought about him notifying the police, but I felt his quitting at least signified that he did not agree.
eg8r <hr /></blockquote>

There is a lot of confusion about when he actually quit, which may shed some light on his reasons for quitting.

Originally he claimed to have quit prior to the Nov. 1971 meeting. (He said the summer of 1971) When that was proven false, he changed his story and said he quit on the final day of the meetings.

From the Wall Street Journal previously referenced:
[ QUOTE ]
But did he resign from the group itself at the November 1971 meeting in Kansas City, or just from its national leadership? Two months after Kansas City he represented VVAW at a speech at Dartmouth College. On Jan. 26, 1972, he was at a Washington protest meeting where the New York Times described him as "a leader of the Vietnam Veterans Against the War." <hr /></blockquote>
The fact that he was still involved with the organization at least 3 months after the meeting is relevant, because it shows that the meeting was not the cause of his resignation.

Also something to take not of:
[ QUOTE ]
Another source is an October 20,1992, oral history interview of Scott Camil on file at the University of Florida Oral History Archive. In it,Mr.Camil speaks of his plan for an alternative to Mr.Kerry’s idea of symbolically throwing veterans’ medals over the fence onto the steps of the Capitol during the Dewey Canyon III demonstration in Washington in April of 1971.

“My plan was that, on the last day we would go into the [congressional] offices we would schedule the most hardcore hawks for last — and we would shoot them all,” Mr. Camil told the Oral History interviewer. “I was serious.”

In a phone interview with the Sun this week, Mr. Camil did not dispute either the account in the Nicosia book or in the oral history. He said he plans to accept an offer by the Florida Kerry organization to become active in Mr. Kerry’s presidential campaign. Campaign aides to Mr. Kerry invited Mr.Camil to a meeting for the senator in Orlando last week, but they did not meet directly.

Mr. Camil was known to colleagues in the anti-war movement as “Scott the Assassin.” Mr. Camil told The New York Sun he got the name in Vietnam for “sneaking down to the Vietnamese villages at night and killing people.”

According to the Nicosia book and interviews with VVAW members who were involved, at theVietnamVeterans Against the War Kansas City leadership conference, Mr. Camil tried to put his plan into effect. He called together eight to 10 Marines to organize something he called “The Phoenix Project.” The original Phoenix Project during the Vietnam War was an attempt to destroy the Viet Cong leadership by assassination. Mr. Camil’s Phoenix Project planned to execute the Southern senatorial leadership that was financing the Vietnam War. Senators like John Stennis, Strom Thurmond, and John Tower were his targets, according to Mr. Camil. They were to be killed during the Senate Christmas recess the following month. <hr /></blockquote>

The rest of the article (http://oregonmag.com/KerryVVAWPlot.htm)

-CM