PDA

View Full Version : how do you rate a cue's value!



justbrake
05-08-2004, 02:31 PM
how do you rate the value of a cue off ebay!, I see a lot of people buying a lot of southwest cue's and hercek cue's,tascarella cue's,capone cue's etc. then I see where some aren't bidded on that much at all, so what brings certin cue's up so high in $$$$ , what's in this bidding on cue's that bring (better $$$)! then other's! /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Popcorn
05-08-2004, 02:40 PM
Willing buyer and a willing seller and the prices like anything else can fluctuate by demand. ebay is a pretty good quick sample of the value of something based on recent sales.

Chris Cass
05-08-2004, 07:59 PM
I go by how it seperates after hitting someone in the head with it. Now, that's one reason a Meucci is so reasonable.

/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif,

C.C.

Pelican
05-08-2004, 09:41 PM
A cue like, anything else, is worth what someone will pay for it. Markets fluctuate and demand for different makers run in cycles. One thing however is always true - there is always a market for quality.

Cueless Joey
05-08-2004, 10:55 PM
The cues from REPUTABLE makers , ones who are known to make quality cues, and do not sell out, will always hold up.
Cuemakers who make 100 cues or more a year, are not custom cuemakers in my books.
Cues that are wanted by PLAYERS because they hit really well, will command good prices.
Those cues meant to be hung on the wall and admired, no longer command that much. Hell, most of them are cnc'd anyway.

JohnBarton
05-08-2004, 11:02 PM
Reputation, availability, condition.

Obviously a cue that was made by someone with a stellar reputation, has very limited availability and is in excellent condition will be in the highest demand and therefore bring the highest prices.

Conversely unknown brands with seemingly unlimited availability will bring the lower prices because there is more supply than demand.

So when I look at a cue I decide what it is worth to me based on the factors above. Most of the time the cues I like are already going for more than they are worth to me. This doesn't mean they are going for more than they are worth however. The market ultimately dictates "worth".

I like to look for cues that are undervalued in my opinion. I often get "burned" doing it this way because it often turns out that my opinion of what the cue is worth is way off - oh well, win some, lose some.

Basically you should look at the cue and decide if it is worth the money to you. Then try and do some research on it if you don't know much about that brand. A simple Ebay search for that brand will often reveal a lot. You might happen upon a cue that you like and find out that there are two dozen more just like it for a fraction of the price on Ebay. You might also see what comparable cues are going for.

Good luck.

John

Jimmy B
05-09-2004, 03:32 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote justbrake:</font><hr> how do you rate the value of a cue off ebay!, I see a lot of people buying a lot of southwest cue's and hercek cue's,tascarella cue's,capone cue's etc. then I see where some aren't bidded on that much at all, <hr /></blockquote>

I'm not sure I get your question, are you asking why a SOuthwest costs more then a Joss or Meucci or are you asking why one Southwest sells higher then another Southwest?? The first seems obvious, the second comes down to looks for most(weight,shafts,woods,inlays,wraps,and extras joint protectors,caes). But I can tell you for me it comes down to the seller, if I see one of those dickhead E-bay sellers who has way to many rules or his S&amp;H charges are way to high or he has little feedback I stay away. Some guys demand you use paypal or that you must send a MO in 3 hours or whatever crazy rules they try to push I avoid them like the Fear factor buffet.

JB

justbrake
05-09-2004, 05:23 AM
I'm not sure I get your question, are you asking why a SOuthwest costs more then a Joss or Meucci or are you asking why one Southwest sells higher then another Southwest?? The first seems obvious, the second comes down to looks for most


what I mean is I see southwest cues for around 2,000 then you see them as high as 2,600 I understand some are (jerry franklyn)eras's, but then you see hercek cues going for 2500 also and nobody touches them,then(on ebay) you see a herck cue for 3500 and everbody jumps on it,how are they determining the value of certin cue's? you can't tell me it's the looks of the cue or the seller that's selling the cue making the price! , I look for myself certin buyers that are bidding on cue's to make my price set! how do you determine what you would pay!

JohnBarton
05-09-2004, 08:16 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote justbrake:</font><hr> I'm not sure I get your question, are you asking why a SOuthwest costs more then a Joss or Meucci or are you asking why one Southwest sells higher then another Southwest?? The first seems obvious, the second comes down to looks for most


what I mean is I see southwest cues for around 2,000 then you see them as high as 2,600 I understand some are (jerry franklyn)eras's, but then you see hercek cues going for 2500 also and nobody touches them,then(on ebay) you see a herck cue for 3500 and everbody jumps on it,how are they determining the value of certin cue's? you can't tell me it's the looks of the cue or the seller that's selling the cue making the price! , I look for myself certin buyers that are bidding on cue's to make my price set! how do you determine what you would pay! <hr /></blockquote>


I think that the prices of the high end cues often comes down to timing. What amount of people willing to purchase a high end cue are available to do so at any one time on Ebay? The more people at any one time might be a factor in why some cues go higher than at other times.

Other than that there are the criteria I mentioned in my other post. Obviously a more highly decorated Hercek is going to be less available than a lesser decorated one and is going to be worth more to more people. A "Franklin Era" SouthWest is worth more than a later one (although I disagree with this concept).

John

tateuts
05-09-2004, 09:12 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote justbrake:</font><hr>
what I mean is I see southwest cues for around 2,000 then you see them as high as 2,600 I understand some are (jerry franklyn)eras's, but then you see hercek cues going for 2500 also and nobody touches them,then(on ebay) you see a herck cue for 3500 and everbody jumps on it,how are they determining the value of certin cue's? you can't tell me it's the looks of the cue or the seller that's selling the cue making the price! , I look for myself certin buyers that are bidding on cue's to make my price set! how do you determine what you would pay! <hr /></blockquote>

When you get into the expensive cues, you have to do your homework and know the values. You have to look at comparable sales over a certain time period, new prices, blue book prices, retail versus street-value.

There is a range of price a cue can expect to get. For no good reason, you might get 20% more than you thought, or 20% less. This is a wide range. Let's say you think a cue is worth $1,000. You might get $800 for it or $1200 for it, depending on who's looking and who wants it. So what's the value? My answer is still about $1,000! All it takes is two bidders who stubbornly want the cue to drive the price up.

The other issue is there is some phoney bidding on E-Bay, especially in the higher priced cues. You don't necessarily know that what you're looking at is legit. There were/are some fraudulent auctions - copycat auctions - where the E-Bay vigilantes spot them and bid up the cue price so that others won't be defrauded. Here's an extreme example of that - E-Bay Balabullsh*t Auction (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;category=310&amp;item=367675804 6&amp;rd=1)

On E-Bay there was recently an auction for some expensive cues, one was a custom that just climbed and climbed. It was maybe a $1,500 cue that was bid up to about $2,500. I marveled at the auction wondering why this cue was worth so much. Then E-Bay cancelled the auction. I knew the seller so I e-mailed him. He called me and said that he had a friend put the ad together for him on E-Bay (he's not the greatest on computers) and his friend did shill bidding without him knowing "as a favor" to drive the prices up. E-Bay figured it out - they must track IP addresses on bidders - and cancelled the auction.

Sometimes there is something special about a cue that may not be advertised. For example, I've been looking for a Palmer with a Gus Szamboti forearm. It could look like a cheaper model but the collectors will know and it will be a lot more expensive than the other Palmers.

Then there is just the "luck of the draw". I had my eye on a Huebler Ivory Chess set custom shop cue. He made them for 30 years, a couple a year maybe. The last few years he wanted about $3,000 for them. I saw a couple auction for over $1,500 - one for around $2,000. The I turned on E-Bay and someone advertised one with a $750 Buy-It-Now. I did. So what's the value of that cue?

Anyway, I like to check the internet cue sites, like Dick Abbott's (billiardcue.com) , Chalkers, whatever, and that pretty much gives you an idea of the "high" retail collectible values for cues in exceptional condition. Bear in mind these sites haven't moved very many cues because the prices are high.

Have fun!

Chris

tateuts
05-09-2004, 09:59 AM
One other thing. The asking price versus the selling price can vary a lot.

A few years ago, people were snapping up multiple $6000 customs like they were stocks and bonds. A lot of those cues are worth about 30% of their value (I guess they really were like stocks!). These folks are trying to get whatever they can. Usually these cues go unsold. Either the reserve is not met or you see them as last minuute cancelled auctions when they realize the value is so much less than they expected.

Chris

Chris Cass
05-09-2004, 01:51 PM
Hi Chris,

There's too many scams on ebay. People putting up cues for sale and emailing people afterwards asking if they're still interested so they can get by with what they would have to pay the net. Others bidding on their own cues to drive up the prices or just to save their butts. No pun intended. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Regards,

C.C.

JohnBarton
05-09-2004, 04:55 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chris Cass:</font><hr> Hi Chris,

There's too many scams on ebay. People putting up cues for sale and emailing people afterwards asking if they're still interested so they can get by with what they would have to pay the net. Others bidding on their own cues to drive up the prices or just to save their butts. No pun intended. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Regards,

C.C. <hr /></blockquote>


This is why an item is in the end only worth as much as the market will bear. If you and most of the other bidders will only pay up to X for a cue then that is all it is worth regardless of whether it is shill bid or not.

Shill bidding is a crappy practice but it happens every day. I either put in my highest price I am willing to pay, bid incrementally or bid through a sniping service.

This way I pay only what I want to pay and nothing more.

But, you are right - too many scams and too many outright liars and deception artists on Ebay.

John

Chris Cass
05-09-2004, 10:56 PM
Hi John,

I never bidded on anything before and Spike (my son) seen a cue he liked. It was a S.W. copy cue and a poor one at that but from the pics it looked pretty well built. I told Spike he could bid. The highest bid was like $65. and I asked Spike what he'd like to bid? He said $70. so, I said tell ya what. I'll bid $100. because I think someone will out bid the $70. He agreed. I did and let him track it. The bid was at $115. Spike asked to bid again. I told him I'll go as far as $150. for any cue that's reasonable looking. I didn't want to get stuck. The bid was crushed at the last min.

Then, I get this email asking if I was still interested? Then, I bought the cue. Man was I taken. Never again. The guy even sent me a offer to sell his cues and offered a cheaper price than I paid. What nerve.

Regards,

C.C.

Jimmy B
05-10-2004, 02:30 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chris Cass:</font><hr> I get this email asking if I was still interested? Then, I bought the cue. Man was I taken. Never again. <hr /></blockquote>

First off Spike said $70 and you bid 100, then you went to 150, that was double what he said the first time !!! What type of lessons are you teaching that kid?? Geeez. But on to the offer after you lost. I always assume that means someone bid up the auction and over did it. What I like to do is offer much less then my highest bid. So if I had bid 150 and lost and the guy says I have another or the guy backed out do you want it for the 150 you bid I say I'll take it for 120. This way I don't feel so bad because if I was willing to pay 150 I figure I made out anyway. E-bay is full of scams now, people are making a living scamming people there, it's to bad it was a good thing at one time.

JB

SPetty
05-10-2004, 06:01 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chris Cass:</font><hr>There's too many scams on ebay. <hr /></blockquote>Hi Chris,

I let this comment go the first time, because I thought it was probably directed at high dollar cue scams, which I know nothing about. After hearing Spike's story, I thought I'd put in my two cents.

I wanted to report that I've purchased several (four, I think) less than high end cues in separate transactions on eBay with absolutely no problems whatsoever. They were very pleasant and successful transactions. The cues were as described, they were packaged better than the cue I bought from an internet store and they arrived quickly.

I'd have no problem recommending eBay as a place to buy cues.

Chris Cass
05-10-2004, 06:42 AM
Hi Jimmy,

When I bid the $100. the bid was met less than 2 min later by $110. I teach my son not to be petty with money nor love. I'm up for a good deal but I'm not trying to steal.(I'm a rap star /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif) Sure my next bid was $150. and soon met with something like the next min bid that one could bid over that.

It just seemed odvious that nobody buying off ebay wants to pay what something is worth. After my experience I'd say the sellers, not all, are just as crooked. So, looks like some get their just rewards. imho

Educating yourself in the item your buying is our greatest tool. Especially where cues are concerned. Fair market value as most said is the way to go. If you know that then, your one step up. Still, you may buy a S.W. with a hairline crack in it and get stuck. You might think your getting a reasonable deal and your not?

I also learned that you just can't get your doe back if shipped if you don't like it. Something about Paypal and they get the money first. I don't know much about ebay as you can tell. SPetty is the knowledgable one here.

Myself, if I ever sell anything on ebay one day. I'll return the money if someone wasn't satisfied when received. The buyer beware policy doesn't apply with me. The "as is" does however. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Regards,

C.C.

Chris Cass
05-10-2004, 06:53 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SPetty:</font><hr>
I let this comment go the first time,( Oh, thank you ) LOL because I thought it was probably directed at high dollar cue scams, which I know nothing about. After hearing Spike's story, I thought I'd put in my two cents.

I wanted to report that I've purchased several (four, I think) less than high end cues in separate transactions on eBay with absolutely no problems whatsoever. They were very pleasant and successful transactions. The cues were as described, they were packaged better than the cue I bought from an internet store and they arrived quickly.

I'd have no problem recommending eBay as a place to buy cues. <hr /></blockquote>

Hi SPetty, where they named cues? Well, regardless if you were happy that's all that matters anyway. Ruk, has boughten several cues also off the net. All SP's or better and all brand name or well known cuemakers.

She's also very knowledgable on buying off the net. I've seen many of the cues she's bought and I thought she got some good deals. I've even helped her with one myself. That being said, there are good sellers too. Just there's many bad sellers there.

I'm not saying you've gotten robbed or anyone buying off ebay is a sucker. All I'm saying is be knowledgable in the item your buying. Be wise, to your return options. Most of all know the fair market value. As was pointed out by some of the more business savey people here.

Regards,

C.C.~~ /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Rich R.
05-10-2004, 07:39 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chris Cass:</font><hr>When I bid the $100. the bid was met less than 2 min later by $110. I teach my son not to be petty with money nor love. I'm up for a good deal but I'm not trying to steal.(I'm a rap star /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif) Sure my next bid was $150. and soon met with something like the next min bid that one could bid over that. <hr /></blockquote>
Chris, on ebay, there is a way for a bidder to have their system automatically make a higher bid on an item, anytime they are over bid. The bidder enters a maximum and the system will continue to bid, until it hits that level.

Obviously, in your case, someone had an automatic bid working for them. You would have to have gone over their limit, to get the item.
Of course, there is no way of knowing who put in the automatic bid. It could have been someone working with the seller.

Chris Cass
05-10-2004, 07:59 AM
Hi Rich,

That must have been what happened when my son put in the $70. bid. I just returned with the $100. and sure enough, it happened again. Also at $150.

Thanks for the information.

Regards,

C.C.