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cueball1950
05-08-2004, 09:05 PM
Grady, since you are the consumate 1 pocket player i have a question about the break for you. Alan Hopkins showed me this break years ago and said it was a legal break since 1 ball hit a rail. Can you make or is it a legal break by kicking to the rail first on your break, hitting the rack and sending a ball to the rail on the break????/. this is a question of great debate here in Albany. So please give me your expert opinion..........mike

Pelican
05-08-2004, 09:36 PM
In case Grady doesn't see this post, it is a legal break as long as a ball goes to a rail.

Popcorn
05-08-2004, 10:01 PM
Just as a side note, it is not a very good break in my opinion, (If it was you would see good players doing it), and it is not uncommon to have a ball come out and leave the other guy shooting straight into his hole. I did used to use this break on bar tables playing one pocket with the big ball. It would actually sink into the rack leaving no shot. To get out of that break, if nothing comes out you can just go up table. You can also take a scratch and just kick the cueball to his pocket. You may not even need to take a scratch if you can brush off a ball. The worst part of the break is, it does not start you off in a good offensive way, it wastes your break. In no time it may look like your opponent broke if he is any kind of player. Breaking properly and laying down a good break, may win the game for you in just a few innings. You have to go for the gusto.

Chris Cass
05-09-2004, 12:15 AM
I have to agree with Popcorn on the results vs the offensive break. I think your talking about this break?

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%KJ5P7%LJ5N2%MK6Q4%NJ5R0%OJ5M0%Ph7E0%QC4C7%UN9Q6%V X4[1%WY8Z4
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http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/pooltable2.html

This break could like Popcorn said leave your opponent with the 13 ball. Although, I've done this break back to another opponent and buried the cb in the rack. It looks deadly but it's too easy to do and it's easy to get out of too.

I don't know the answer to the question you asked Grady but I tend to think it is legal. The only requirement that I know is a ball must hit a rail and doesn't matter which one. I'm convinced the best break is one you can freeze the cb against the side rail at diamond #2. As long as you get between diamond #2 and 3 it'll work but 3 is a bit high and I'll bank or kick a ball in on my opponent if he leaves me that. It's not guaranteed but lets just say I will get back to the table.

Regards,

C.C.

Ken
05-09-2004, 05:23 AM
Mike,
This shot is described in Winning One Pocket a little differently. It says "The ideal hit for this break would be a full hit on the center ball." I'll send you a copy if this system permits sending attachements.

The break is not highly recommended.
Ken in CT

NH_Steve
05-09-2004, 06:35 AM
It is definitely a legal break, although if hit a little lightly sometimes the balls open such that nothing ends up hitting a rail, thus costing you a ball.

The rules confusion probably stems from some earlier incorrect versions of the BCA One Pocket rules which were fixed up a few years ago.

As Popcorn said, the rail-first break doesn't consistently put a ball in or in front of your own hole like a well struck standard break can. Opponents who are experienced can easily respond by lightly kicking off the side rail to get behind or under any loose balls that do end up on your own side. It might cost them a ball to get out of the break, but it will rarely cost them the game -- unlike the standard break, which often can win the game.

However, against a 9-baller who thinks they can play a little One Pocket, it might sufficiently confuse them to win you a few games -- if it doesn't cost a few in the meantime by leaving your opponent the corner ball straight in to their own pocket now and then!

Grady
05-09-2004, 08:03 AM
The rule is: A ball, including the cue ball, must strike a rail after contact.
What's interesting here is what happens when a player fails to contact a rail on the break shot, after contact. The opposing player has his choice: a, To make the offending player break again, in which he still owes one. Or b, Accepting the original break shot, in which case the player also owes a ball.

Grady
05-09-2004, 08:18 AM
I'll be in NH soon visiting my wife's relatives. Maybe you can make it over to Somersworth on June 10th for an exhibition I'm doing there. It'd be nice to meet you. If you like, email me and I can send you details. (Grady101@sc.rr.com)

Popcorn
05-09-2004, 09:51 AM
Is that ,"The", rule or is that the rule you use in your tournaments? What would be the general rule as the game is most commonly played. I have seen a lot of players who try to lay on the front ball on the break and never saw anyone call anything on them.

Popcorn
05-09-2004, 09:53 AM
That is one of the things I don't like about that book. He shows a shot and then tells you not to do it.

woody_968
05-10-2004, 02:21 PM
So does this mean the cueball must hit a rail after contact? Or that any ball must contact the rail for which the cueball qualifies?

thanks.

Chris Cass
05-10-2004, 04:19 PM
Hi Woody,

He answered that question already. However, the book I read said a ball must hit a rail after contact. Not both. Grady claims the cb also. I like his rule better.

Regards,

C.C.

SPetty
05-10-2004, 04:26 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chris Cass:</font><hr>However, the book I read said a ball must hit a rail after contact. Not both. Grady claims the cb also.<hr /></blockquote>Grady said: "The rule is: A ball, including the cue ball, must strike a rail after contact."

I read that to mean that a ball, any ball, whether it be an object ball or the cue ball, must hit a rail. Not that the cue ball must hit the rail in addition to an object ball hitting a rail. I think you and Grady are saying the same thing.

Popcorn
05-10-2004, 04:53 PM
Grady likes to put on tournaments by rules he likes himself. I played in one of his tournaments and was playing Howard Vickory (sp)?. We had played half the match when someone in the audience told us we were playing by the wrong rules.

Troy
05-10-2004, 07:42 PM
Yup, any ball. The CB is included as one of those "any".

Troy
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SPetty:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chris Cass:</font><hr>However, the book I read said a ball must hit a rail after contact. Not both. Grady claims the cb also.<hr /></blockquote>Grady said: "The rule is: A ball, including the cue ball, must strike a rail after contact."

I read that to mean that a ball, any ball, whether it be an object ball or the cue ball, must hit a rail. Not that the cue ball must hit the rail in addition to an object ball hitting a rail. I think you and Grady are saying the same thing. <hr /></blockquote>

superstroke
05-11-2004, 12:50 AM
Its legal, sometimes the cue ball will stick to the rack and give you a good break, but its not consistent. I'd never use that for the cash.

NH_Steve
05-11-2004, 04:34 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Grady:</font><hr>
What's interesting here is what happens when a player fails to contact a rail on the break shot, after contact. The opposing player has his choice: a, To make the offending player break again, in which he still owes one. Or b, Accepting the original break shot, in which case the player also owes a ball. <hr /></blockquote>I'm curious about the 'rerack' option -- I've never run into that before. Grady, are you saying that is the way One Pocket has traditionaly been played, or are you suggesting the rerack option as an interesting new idea for a rule? I thought the incoming player always had to 'play them as they lie' after any break, whether any ball hit a rail or not. I like the rerack option -- just never seen it before.