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PoOn
05-09-2004, 07:13 PM
im not sure which 1 to get... what's the difference between the predator 314 and the predator Z shaft? and what makes whichever better?

Cueless Joey
05-09-2004, 09:53 PM
Neither one.
You have no need for one.
Learn to shoot with a regular maple first then decide later on if you need an aftermarket shaft when your game develops.
If you can't decide between two shafts that have very different taper and feel, then you are not ready for an aftermarket shaft.
But, if you have to get one, I say get the 314. The Z's taper is too stiff for pool imo.

Jimmy B
05-10-2004, 02:23 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cueless Joey:</font><hr> Neither one.
You have no need for one.
Learn to shoot with a regular maple first then decide later imo. <hr /></blockquote>
I couldn't disagree more. IMO the only good time to use the 314 would be when you first start out in the game. I think it could be a giant advantage if you learned to play with a low squirt cue. I have been playing with normal shafts my whole pool life and now find it really hard to try and re-train my mind. If I could do it over I would want to learn from day 1 with a shaft like a 314 I think it would be beneficial in the long run. Now if you want to use a normal shaft for life then Joey is right, you don't need it. But to start off with the mindset to make a change down the line I disagree.

JB

highsea
05-10-2004, 03:23 AM
Yea, squirt, shmirt. If you have to ask the question, you are better served with neither. I'm with Joey on this.

Play for a couple years with a good quality production cue like a Joss or McDermott, learn to move the CB around with speed first. Centerball hits, stop, draw, and follow. (or as close as you can and still leave yourself a shot)

Take that $200.00 and spend it on table time. There's no shaft made that can compensate for a lousy stroke.

-CM

rocky
05-10-2004, 09:19 AM
The difference is the taper and the shaft diameter. The 314 has pro taper with a 12.75 diam. and the Z shaft has a longer taper with a 11.75 diam. the Z shaft is going to apply a lot more english to the cue ball. If you are just starting and learning about english I would suggest a reglular 314 shaft.

Cueless Joey
05-10-2004, 09:42 AM
Jimmy, what advantage would that be?
Personally, I don't see a need for a Pred shaft on bar box.
If you can't judge speed and squirt on a little box, you'll never be able to.
I don't think a player who plays with 13MM tip has any need for a 314 shaft. Those who like skinny shafts, perhaps they can use a 314.
What a beginner needs to learn is to shoot straight and judge speed before forking out $180 on a shaft.
$180 gets a long session with an instructor.

rocky
05-10-2004, 03:27 PM
You may not "see the need for product" but the shaft is better than any shaft out there ref.. www.platinumbiliards.com (http://www.platinumbiliards.com) . If a shaft will help a person shoot better and it will, why tell them not to use it, why the personal attack on the company all the time, do we need to start a fund to buy you one if you dont have the money?

Cueless Joey
05-10-2004, 03:57 PM
I didn't attack the company.
I said he has no "need" for one.
Will he shoot better with it?
How? He can't shoot better with a straight quality shaft?
How is 314 "better" than any other shaft?
That's a matter of opinion, not fact. Some peope like a harder ferrule and non-hollowed out shafts but those shafts aren't "better" per se.
You don't need to give me money to buy one. I used to have one. I didn't attack the Predator company.
You have one guy here who is trying to make up his mind between two distinct shafts and cannot make up his mind. Two very different tapers. If he can't tell the difference between the two, how can he tell if a 314 would even benefit him before he starts getting into the intermediate level?

Nightstalker
05-10-2004, 04:01 PM
I own a 314 shaft and do not feel ripped off having bought one. I think that it has helped me to move the cue ball around with less effort. When I use extra effort to get shape it can cause flaws to occur in my stroke and I don't like that.

Sid_Vicious
05-10-2004, 07:13 PM
For a long time I wanted a 314 just because, "I wanted it!" so I got a cue with one. Hey, as a good friend keeps telling me, if you want something go ahead and get it. I'd suggest the 314, and not the Z. jm2c...sid

Nightstalker
05-10-2004, 08:17 PM
That's right Sid, and with the 314 shaft you really can't go wrong because if you try it and don't like it you can simply sell it. Predator shafts are relatively easy to sell.

Jimmy B
05-11-2004, 01:53 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cueless Joey:</font><hr> Jimmy, what advantage would that be?
<hr /></blockquote>

Well the advantage would be for the rest of his life he never has to make adjustments. He can learn from day one to shoot with low squirt shaft and from that day on he never has to change, every cue he buys after that he can just buy with a 314 or have fitted. My point was if I had a chance to learn from day 1 I would have done it, instead I switched cues 12 times in the first 5 years of playing and every time was an adjustment. IMO learning from scratch with something that decreases one of the variables is just a no brainer, trying to switch over is open to debate IMO. I feel that predators main draw is consistency, it's what can make or break a pool player, I know I wish I was consistent. I guess I just feel that anything you can control and keep a constant is a good thing and starting from day one with something you could still use 10 years from now is a plus.

JB

crawdaddio
05-11-2004, 10:48 AM
I feel that predators main draw is consistency, it's what can make or break a pool player, I know I wish I was consistent. I guess I just feel that anything you can control and keep a constant is a good thing and starting from day one with something you could still use 10 years from now is a plus.

JB
<hr /></blockquote>
-----------------------------------------------------------
If you buy a quality custom (or some well made production) cue with a good hard rock or old growth maple shaft it should last and remain consistent for your entire life. /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Nightstalker
05-11-2004, 11:17 AM
That is the old school of thought. New research has shown that the radial splicing of 10 sections lessens the inherent inconsistency present in normal pieces of wood.

crawdaddio
05-11-2004, 01:21 PM
My friend has a very old joss, 70's I think, both shafts are sraight as straight can get. The cue has seen 30 years of considerable play and (according to him) plays just like it did when he bought it. I have seen 314's and red dot shafts warp. (Granted they were covered by warranty and replaced) Now I'm not saying which is better, but I am saying that I prefer a nice one piece maple shaft. Please take no offense as none is intended, but judging by the icon under your name, I'd venture to say you're a little biased.

Nightstalker
05-11-2004, 01:27 PM
No offense taken, your post was excellent. I do own a 314 shaft and like it better than my Fury shaft. Different strokes for different folks. If everyone liked the same things it would sure be boring.

Cueless Joey
05-11-2004, 02:17 PM
[ QUOTE ]
That is the old school of thought. New research has shown that the radial splicing of 10 sections lessens the inherent inconsistency present in normal pieces of wood <hr /></blockquote>
Who's research is that ?
How can TEN separate pieces from separate woods be more consistent than a one-piece wood?

Nightstalker
05-11-2004, 02:22 PM
"More than half of today's male professionals ranking among the top 40 have switched to Predator *.
*UPA rankings, May 2003"

"Unequaled consistency. Predator's unique 10-piece splicing eliminates grain directionality and produces a consistency of flex and straightness unequaled by any traditional one-piece shaft."

tateuts
05-11-2004, 02:51 PM
I was initially totally skeptical about Predator shafts and their claims. I bought a Josswest from a pro here in Los Angeles which had three 30" shafts, one of which was a Predator 314.

I decided to give it a try. I tossed out some balls and started making shots with extreme english really stroking the cue ball. With the Predator, I was making more extreme shots than with either of the other two shafts - a lot more.

Now I am totally used to the 314. I haven't tried the "Z" yet, but I am completely happy with my 314 and confident in it - and would not dream of changing shafts, to a "Z" or any other.

Chris

tateuts
05-11-2004, 02:52 PM
I was initially totally skeptical about Predator shafts and their claims. I bought a Josswest from a pro here in Los Angeles which had three 30" shafts, one of which was a Predator 314.

I decided to give it a try. I tossed out some balls and started making shots with extreme english, low-left, high right, really stroking the cue ball. With the Predator, I was making more extreme shots than with either of the other two shafts - a lot more.

Now I am totally used to the 314. I haven't tried the "Z" yet, but I am completely happy with my 314 and confident in it - and would not dream of changing shafts, to a "Z" or any other.

Chris

Jimmy B
05-12-2004, 01:59 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote crawdaddio:</font><hr>
If you buy a quality custom (or some well made production) cue with a good hard rock or old growth maple shaft it should last and remain consistent for your entire life. /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif <hr /></blockquote>
Well, I hope to someday have the privilege of buying a quality custom cue, and I agree it will remain consistent. But you missed the point, my point was. He's new he will change cues a few times till he finds something he likes, learning with a 314 he can keep the same shaft and change butts or have 314 shafts fitted to whatever cue he buys. Sure a Ginacue will remain consistent for the life of the cue, but it will not be the same if you switch from a Meucci to a Schon or from a Cuetech-Viking-Pechauer-Samsara-Southwest to a Gina. I am not talking about the same cue remaining consistent I am talking about changing cues all together, either to upgrade or just for a change of pace.

JB

Jimmy B
05-12-2004, 02:08 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Nightstalker:</font><hr> "More than half of today's male professionals ranking among the top 40 have switched to Predator *.
*UPA rankings, May 2003"
"Unequaled consistency. Predator's unique 10-piece splicing eliminates grain directionality and produces a consistency of flex and straightness unequaled by any traditional one-piece shaft." <hr /></blockquote>

Well this brings up a large bone of contention with me. First the guys at Predator will always tell you that all the pros use their shafts and that they don't pay any of them. What they don't tell you is how they give them the shafts for free. I'd say Free shafts is a form of payment. There is no proof or anyway to show proof that a 314 can make you shoot better, how would anyone chart this?
It brings me back to my original point I believe the main reason to use a predator is not how it performs but the consistency factor. Many pros switch cues often and I think most would agree that most pros will shoot well with any cue (ex. Earl with cuetech, Archer with Scorp. Corey with 90210) But the 314 gives them a constant, they can switch butts all they want and always have the same shaft, same taper, same diameter, and same (or close) performance. Again consistency helps lessen the transition period. Not to even mention pool players for the most part are cheap and free is free.

JB

buddha162
05-12-2004, 03:51 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Jimmy B:</font><hr> First the guys at Predator will always tell you that all the pros use their shafts and that they don't pay any of them. What they don't tell you is how they give them the shafts for free. I'd say Free shafts is a form of payment. <hr /></blockquote>

No pro would use a Predator shaft just because it's free. They make a living shooting pool, do you think they'd compromise on a quality shaft to save 170 bucks? And besides, they must like the shaft better than whatever shaft came with their cues, or why would they switch? I mean, they didn't pay extra money for their stock shafts did they? There are plenty of big-name custom cues being fitted with Predator shafts among the pro players as well.

Sponsorship, like the one Earl and Allison have with Cuetec, is a different story. That's some serious money, as far as pool is concerned.

I do agree with you that one of the main attractions to Predator shafts is their consistent squirt characteristics. That's a huge advantage, imo.

-Roger

crawdaddio
05-12-2004, 08:11 AM
I agree with you Jimmy regarding the consistency between shafts with the predator. However, you could say the same about buying shafts from say, Ginacue or Ted Harris, or any cuemaker that makes quality shafts. The consistency from one shaft to another made by the same (skilled) cuemaker is,IMHO, just about the same. Most cuemakers will fit one of their shafts to almost any cue you send them, for a price. So you're talking about (with pred. or anyone else you choose) adding 100.00-200.00$ to every cue this friend of yours buys. If he is willing to accept that, then I agree with you that it would be to his benefit. Consistency in pool IS extremely important. Thanks /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif
David

Harold Acosta
05-12-2004, 07:25 PM
Although I am not an advocate of Predator Products, I can tell you that there are more problems of adjustment with the Z shaft (taper and ferrule); besides some probable flaws with the design.

A friend of mine purchased the Z shaft for his Lucasi cue. Allegedly he likes the Z over the 314 but the ferrule of the Z shaft has mushroomed. Yes, people, the ferrule mushroomed not the tip. When I saw the ferrule, I couldn't believe it. The shaft is in process of return to Predator for exchange.

For some reason, the Predator Shafts I have seen have had their share of problems. Mainly, if it is used for breaking. I have seen lots of these shaft break around the ferrule, and one of them became unscrewed at the collar.

I know about this because many of the Players in PR come to me for the process of contacting Predator and making the exchange.

I believe that the X-shaft could be a better choice but then I do not have any experience nor I have seen any of these shaft perform.

My 2 cents on the subject.

PoOn
05-12-2004, 07:44 PM
what's the x-shaft? why would you prefer that over the 314 what's the difference?

PoOn
05-12-2004, 07:58 PM
if anybody has ever heard of panther cues at these 2 sites it says that it comes with a free x-shaft... if the x-shaft is supposed to be good then why should it be free?
http://www.jjcue.com/panther.htm
http://www.beadsandbilliards.com/panthercues.html

and does anybody know if these are reliable sites to order from?

Harold Acosta
05-12-2004, 08:40 PM
The X shaft is sold by Tiger Products and it is a solid 5 piece shaft, not hollow like the Predator.

Visit www.tigerproducts.com. (http://www.tigerproducts.com.)

Harold Acosta
05-12-2004, 08:42 PM
It comes with an extra shaft, not an X Shaft.

PoOn
05-12-2004, 09:24 PM
if you read closer it says X-shaft i know im not reading it wrong is there like another x-shaft or something because i know it says X-shaft

Cueless Joey
05-12-2004, 10:28 PM
Xshaft as an extra shaft. Not the X Shaft.
Just a Panther extra shaft.

Nightstalker
05-13-2004, 07:33 AM
I thought this was a 314 vs. Z thread? /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

I certainly think that there would be more adjustment for a Z shaft than the 314 due to the taper. The Z is a euro (conical) taper and most pool cues have some variation of the pro taper like the 314.

Jimmy B
05-14-2004, 02:23 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote buddha162:</font><hr>
No pro would use a Predator shaft just because it's free. They make a living shooting pool, do you think they'd compromise on a quality shaft

And then says

Sponsorship, like the one Earl and Allison have with Cuetec, is a different story. That's some serious money, as far as pool is concerned.

-Roger

<hr /></blockquote>
You can make those 2 statements in the same post and not see anything wrong with it??? Do you really believe this? I mean you want me to believe no pro would jeopardize their career for free shafts but Earl or Alison don't care about their careers because it's real money?? LOL That's funny.

JB

PoOn
05-14-2004, 03:05 PM
Has anybody ever tried an X-Shaft before? how does it feel compared to the 314?

Big_Jon
05-14-2004, 04:34 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cueless Joey:</font><hr> Xshaft as an extra shaft. Not the X Shaft.
Just a Panther extra shaft. <hr /></blockquote>

And of course, what would we all do, without Mr. Knowitall.

Thanks,

Jon

P.S. Nice Bubinga /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif... bitch...