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Mitch
05-12-2004, 10:14 AM
I've a problem trying to learn "draw: shot,,, seems to work just fine for me when distance from bridge to cue is about 8",,, however when i need to use power long shot distance is about 9-10" I generate NO draw whatsoever!!! just stop shot. Cue is same level I don't get it,,, any ideas ?????
Thanks

Big_Jon
05-12-2004, 10:20 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Mitch:</font><hr> I've a problem trying to learn "draw: shot,,, seems to work just fine for me when distance from bridge to cue is about 8",,, however when i need to use power long shot distance is about 9-10" I generate NO draw whatsoever!!! just stop shot. Cue is same level I don't get it,,, any ideas ?????
Thanks <hr /></blockquote>

You need to sharpen your pencil.

Thanks,

Jon

Scott Lee
05-12-2004, 10:25 AM
Mitch...Many players attempting to power draw the CB, make one of several mistakes. Most are simply not hitting the CB where they think they are. This is usually a factor of dropping the elbow some (often because of a tighter grip on the cue), which causes the actual contact point between the tip and the CB to raise up. If you are shooting hard and just achieving a stop shot, you are likely hitting the CB at or near dead center. AIM LOWER! LOL Another problem I constantly see, as an instructor, is lack of consistent followthrough. Your tip really needs to get past where the CB is sitting, by 4-6 inches on the average shot, regardless of the speed of the stroke. It's possible that when you stretch your bridge out longer, you are now not getting the 'natural followthrough' that is necessary to get consistent results...especially with draw. Lastly...be CERTAIN that you are using a complimentary pre-shot routine, that includes a pause at the CB (before the final stroke), and a SLOW backswing. A hurried backswing is one of the primary causes for missing shots. The contact point between the tip and the CB is VERY small (1/8" x 1/8")...about the size of the red circle, on a red circle CB. Missing where you are aiming by just that little bit (and most miss by a lot more than that), can have a dramatic impact on not only whether you make the shot, but also in your position play for the next shot. Hope this helps.

Scott Lee

PQQLK9
05-12-2004, 10:40 AM
Sounds like something I have heard before /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif.I always recall it when I am faced with a critical draw.
thanks again.

Leviathan
05-12-2004, 11:36 AM
Mitch: About hitting the ball low, which Scott emphasizes--I never knew how low I could hit the CB until I practiced stroking the CB without using an object ball as a target. It's a heck of a lot easier to make yourself hit the CB very low when you aren't worried about putting it in the air, missing a shot, and looking like a jerk. You might consider just shooting the CB up and down the table with a smooth, firm stroke and a very low hit and seeing what happens. If your delivery is smooth, you get a lot of draw and the CB doesn't jump.

AS

pooltchr
05-12-2004, 12:15 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Scott Lee:</font><hr>Another problem I constantly see, as an instructor, is lack of consistent followthrough. Your tip really needs to get past where the CB is sitting, by 4-6 inches on the average shot, regardless of the speed of the stroke.<hr /></blockquote>

Anyone with problems drawing the ball needs to read the above again. I'm sure Scott would agree that many players try to "pull back" with the cue on draw shots rather than stroking through the full stroke. (RandyG calls it the cowboy draw I believe)
Great post, Scott!

Mitch
05-12-2004, 12:28 PM
Thank Scott:
I keep trying however one day,,, but all joking aside good advice,, may i ask another??
Cue Tip curvature and english....I recently got my tips replaced with a hard tip.. Stratos to be exact.. I like it alot feel like i can be more consistent. My older tips just flattened out to fast.. how important is the curvature for english shots??? Wont a "Nickle" radius be harder to execute straight shots?? I'm hesitant to shape my new tips their hard and I don't want to flatten them out as I did with the less expensive softer tips?? How often do you reshape a tip?? or even scuff it??
Again thanks Scott
Mitch

rocky
05-12-2004, 12:37 PM
you are going to have a slightly harder time drawing the cue ball with a hard tip also. scotts advise was excellent! the only thing that I would add is to excellerate through the ball. and make sure that you have a good tight bridge. the further your bridge is from the cue ball the more vibration you will have and the less draw you will acheive. These are the things that Allison taught me when I took lessons from her.

Wally_in_Cincy
05-12-2004, 01:28 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Leviathan:</font><hr>...You might consider just shooting the CB up and down the table with a smooth, firm stroke and a very low hit and seeing what happens....<hr /></blockquote>

I will do this sometimes with a stripe ball with the stripe horizontally so I can see the spin.

And you can also look at the chalk mark to see where you hit it.

woody_968
05-12-2004, 06:16 PM
Scott has gone over most of the things people should check when drawing the ball is a problem. He has given great advise as he always does /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

One thing I would caution is making your bridge too long when you think you need power. With a good stroke you dont have to go to an extremely long bridge to get the draw it sounds like you are trying to get.

As far as the curve on the tip that is one thing I was going to mention. A well shaped tip is a must for moving away from the center of the cueball, and while you are correct that a "flat" tip would make it easier to hit a no english shot the amount of times you have to hit away from the center makes it a neccessary evil. But just as important as a well shaped tip is the understanding of where that tip is really going to hit.
This is hard to explain by typing, but easy to show in person. The problem I see with most (as Scott has stated) is they dont hit low enough on the cueball. They may move the tip up like he said, but many times I think it is because they aim the center of the cuetip at the point they want to hit when you actually need to aim the upper portion of the tip at this point because of the cure of the tip.

To see what I mean take a stripped ball and try to touch the bottom of the stripe with the center of the tip. You should notice that you are actually touching the ball a little above the stripe. To hit the bottom of the stripe the center of the tip is really below the stripe.

That may not make sence so if anyone can explain it better than I did feel free to correct me /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Sid_Vicious
05-12-2004, 07:16 PM
"The contact point between the tip and the CB is VERY small (1/8" x 1/8")...about the size of the red circle, on a red circle CB"

That's the key, along with the non hurried final stoke. I'll break fundamental law here and add that playing the draw over lenghtier distances, requires many times(imo) that you intensely burn a visionary hole directly into the CB precisely where you intend to hit it, then keep that as a point of vision totally through the whole final stroke until the draw is done. Object ball last, is the norm, but the draw along with many, many other strokes requires studying exactly where you are hitting the cb, LAST. jm2c...sid

pooltchr
05-13-2004, 05:59 AM
Woody,
Good point! When you contact the cb above the horizontal center line, it is the bottom of the tip that makes contact. When contact is below the horizontal center, it is the top of the tip that makes contact.

This is the same principle as when making a cut shot. The aiming point and the contact point are completely different. Since both the cb and the tip are curved, you get the same effect.

Imagine a 13mm tip contacting 1/2 way between the bottom of the cb and center ball...the difference between contact and aiming point would be 3.25mm if my math skills havn't failed me. (If they have, I'm sure someone will correct me! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif)

Mitch
05-13-2004, 08:38 AM
Excellent information thank you!!! How about this one what percentage of shots do you use center ball hits on the cb???
I know this can vary with the break but on the average.. I was told by a pro that he used cb hits almost never is that the norm????

pooltchr
05-13-2004, 10:46 AM
Good question. For pure center ball hits, it is probably very rare. However, the majority of my shots are somewhere along the vertical center. Side spin brings into play a lot of variables that usually only serve to make a shot more difficult. I have learned that in most cases, I can control my cb position simply by using top or bottom spin and just changing the speed of the shot. If I have to use a lot of side spin to get position, I probably didn't do a good job of getting shape the last time I shot. I never really thought about the percentages, but I would guess I am on vertical center around 70-80 percent of the time.
Now I'm going to have to run a few racks and see if my estimate is accurate! /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif

ras314
05-13-2004, 12:24 PM
The harder tips should not flatten as fast. I use a hard layered tip (Talsiman WB)and never have to scuff it. I have to reshape it about once a month probably because I break with it. I generaly shoot around 20 hrs/wk

Might add that a camcorder can be a great help in watching your stroke on the cb.