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Tom_In_Cincy
05-01-2002, 05:25 PM
John Brumback of Kentucky and ranked in the top 50 of the world's best players, and in the top 5 of the world's best bank shot players, gave a clinic here in Cincinnati.

I have been banking wrong for 30+ years... John showed 12 of us how to develop bank shot skills and how to give your bank shots a better chance of getting into the desired pocket.

Do any of you remember the "impossible Bank shot" of the ball just one diamond (AND one ball's width away from the rail) away from the side pocket on the foot spot side of the table.. and the cue ball on the foot spot?

Banking it into the opposite side poket is almost impossible.. and for me its been a long time challenge..

Well this is the shot he started his clinic with.. and said, that you should practice this shot to become aware of speed, stroke and angle.. because all the next shots will be based off what you learn from this shot.. BOY.. was he right..

I started my practice session last nite by making this shot 4 straight times and about 20 out of 50 attempts.

Stop shot speed, and cue ball moves about 8 inches after contact, center right, smoothe stroke.

OB will come off side rail and curve into side pocket..

Try it..

05-01-2002, 09:04 PM
Tom...
Could you lay out that bank shot on the RSB pool table for us? (or I should say me...) John's advice sounds good and basic...and I wish I had been part of your group

thanks in advance...RGC in SC

Chris Cass
05-01-2002, 09:06 PM
Hi Tom,

I've heard of the shot but it's been a while and can't get the ob placement down. Can you put this on the WEI Table?

Regards,

C.C.

Rod
05-01-2002, 10:23 PM
Chris, The way it's explained this is the shot. It's not bad here but 1/2 balls width towards the side and it gets difficult.
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A shot I like and it's fun to! Cut the one ball in the left side pocket with low and a bit of right. The cue ball goes in the same pocket, but it beats the one ball there! The set up is close, but may need a little adjustment. Get the positions right and it can be made with some consistancy.
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Vagabond
05-02-2002, 04:45 AM
Hello Mate,
I heard that John has been making more money playing golf.His road buddy from Richmond, Kentucky told me about this a year ago.By the way John is known for his bridge ( in pool) also and I think he has the best bridge. Cheers.
Vagabond

Tom_In_Cincy
05-02-2002, 05:24 PM
Thanks Rod for taking the time to do the Wei table layout.. and it is exactly correct.... tough shot for us amatures..

05-02-2002, 06:08 PM
Hi All.
I just returned from playing pool for the 2nd time in about 20 years. If that is the shot I'm thinking of, it is the only thing I did decently. After a couple hours practicing the last ball ended up close to that place and the cue was near the spot. So I set up the shot. I placed the cue on the rail 1 diamond away from the side pocket towards the foot of the table. Then I placed an object ball against it. I removed the cue and put it on the spot. I banked it cross side the first 4 times. On the 5th time I made the shot but scratched in the side pocket near where the object ball was set. On the next try I missed the bank and scratched in the corner.

If that is the shot it was shown to me in the 60s when I played while in high school. I usually shoot it with an open hand bridge. This way the cue is a little higher. And I rest the cue on my thumb. I elevate the cue some. And I shoot though the ball with a little draw. Shooting through the ball is how it was explained to me in the 60s. The cue is elevated and I use a higher bridge. You hit the object ball almost full. The little drawn or little cue slide from the elevated bridge and the angled cue stick keeps the cue ball from kissing as the object ball comes off the rail. Speed is important to make this shot also. And there is a danger of scratching in the side nearest where the object ball is set up. That happens if you don't stroke it correctly or get the necessary little draw. If you hit the shot too hard then the cue sometimes goes right off the object ball and scratches in the corner on that same side at the head of the table. When you scratch in the side it often gets the coment, how did it scratch in the side. What happens if the speed isn't right is the cue slides off the object ball. Then it grips and just catches the tip of the side and plops in.

Ken
05-02-2002, 08:02 PM
I tried the shot for at least a half hour last night and have to conclude that it is indeed impossible if the cushions send the ball off at an angle anywhere near the mirror image of the angle on contact with the rail.

Since I have replaced three of my cushions with new superspeeds I had the idea to try it on the other side. On that side the shot is easy. The superspeed rubber reduces the angle so much that the only way to miss is to get the kiss you get when trying to reduce the angle too much.

I don't know why they came up with cushions that give such a false rebound angle but they seem to be popular. I'm putting them on only because I can't bank when I go to a modern table. I need to practice on those wierd cushions.
Ken in CT

Troy
05-02-2002, 09:47 PM
Looking at the WEI Table setup (Thanks Rod), I "think" I see two ways to make the shot.
First, a stun shot (maybe a bit of draw) with right english.
Second, a crossing shot with a bit of left english.

Must try tomorrow.

Troy

Troy
05-03-2002, 07:36 PM
Yup, the two ways I described both work. After a few practice tries, I was able to pocket about 6-7 out of 10 each.

Side note --- put the OB one diamond up from the corner and pocket it in the opposite corner. Fairly common 1-Pocket shot.

Troy

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Troy:</font><hr> Looking at the WEI Table setup (Thanks Rod), I "think" I see two ways to make the shot.
First, a stun shot (maybe a bit of draw) with right english.
Second, a crossing shot with a bit of left english.

Must try tomorrow.

Troy <hr></blockquote>

TomBrooklyn
08-02-2002, 02:09 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Tom_In_Cincy:</font><hr> I have been banking wrong for 30+ years... <hr></blockquote>What is it you were doing wrong, Tom? Perhaps it is something others are doing wrong also?

Tom_In_Cincy
08-02-2002, 05:27 PM
Tom

I was always trying to search for the natural angle off the cushion.

With the correct stroke, with inside english half-tip, and aiming to give yourself a better chance of pocketing the bank.

The WEI table diagram will show you what I was doing wrong. I was aiming for point "A" at pocket speed, center hit on the cue ball. With the way the balls are set up the, shooting my way, I never had a chance to make the bank.

Shooting the way Mr. Brumback advises, you give your self a better angle into the pocket. The OB will evey go even if it hits between the closest diamond and the corner pocket, if it is hit with a medium stroke.

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TonyM
08-02-2002, 09:36 PM
Do you mean he suggested using a half tip of inside english and aiming to slightly overcut the ball (when compared to a natural angle) for EVERY bank shot?

Jerry Briesath has a slightly different approach. He suggests to aim slightly wide of the pocket (to overcut the ball slightly) and then to use sufficient speed to narrow the angle, rather than the inside english. I think that it might be easier to aim with centerball and use speed to narrow the angle, rather than use inside english and have to adjust for squirt.

Another great bank-pool player that I met always used a tough of outside english, and aimed a bit fat on the ball!

Still another gave me this bit of advice: "I just aim it until I get a "glimpse", and then I let it go". No explanation of what he was getting a "glimpse" of, or anything more helpful. Basically, he aimed "by feel".

I guess that I look at bank shots in a similar way to other shots. You have to be able to hit them with whatever english might be required to get position on the next ball. Sometimes that means inside english, sometimes it means outside english, sometimes follow, sometimes draw, sometimes soft, sometimes hard.

But who has the time to practice that many bank shots?

Tony
-an old friend once said "banks are a sure sign of someone who can't play no shape"!....

NH_Steve
08-03-2002, 06:05 AM
Simply the act of cutting the object ball imparts english to the bank -- you don't always have to mess with the accuracy of your shot by adding inside english. Here's a standard one pocket shot for example:

With a firm, stop shot type of hit, lots of throw to the object ball makes this 'impossible' bank.

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Shortcut to WEI table:
http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/pooltable2.html

sliprock
08-03-2002, 06:24 AM
Tom, The best player that my little town ever produced uses this style of banking balls. He says that he cuts'em and holds'em. His name is Truman Hogue and I think that accu-stats has a video of him running 13 and out against S. Daulton at last years Derby tourny.

Tom_In_Cincy
08-03-2002, 09:54 AM
I was there, and heard about the match.. I am also looking forward to being there again in Jan 2003. And, continuing my Bank and One Pocket entry.

Mr. Houge is one of the better bank players.

Tom_In_Cincy
08-03-2002, 10:00 AM
NOT for every shot.

But for shots that are close to a natural angle setup, use the inside with a half tip, and aim to make the angle such that it gives you a better chance of making the shot.

Jerry B.'s approach is about the same.. you make the ob come off the rail at a better angle to have an better chance of makeing the ball.

Practicing bank shots will help your aiming. Practicing bank shots will also increase your confidence when your opponent has left you a full table bank as a safety. And, practicing bank shots will also make you feel better about entering the Derby City Classic Bank Pool tournament in Jan 2003

Tom_In_Cincy
08-03-2002, 10:04 AM
I have seen a lot of good one pocket players use this shot. Cincy has its share and more of good one pocket players. I have been able to see some really good matchups. We also have a one pocket league continuing this fall.

In one match of One Pocket, you get to exercise almost everything you know about the game of pool.

Strategy, cue ball position, defence (safeties), extreme cuts, table speed, pocket speed, banks, cluster management, and most of all.. how to use your head, while standing up.

NH_Steve
08-04-2002, 07:40 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Tom_In_Cincy:</font><hr>
In one match of One Pocket, you get to exercise almost everything you know about the game of pool.

Strategy, cue ball position, defence (safeties), extreme cuts, table speed, pocket speed, banks, cluster management, and most of all.. how to use your head, while standing up. <hr></blockquote>Amen!!! If it wasn't for one pocket, I don't think I'd be playing pool much. I love the thinking, the opportunity for creativity, strategy, and outrageous shots -- way more of all of that than any other pool game! And on top of all that fun stuff -- you still need good fundamental pool execution skills, like any other game. It's certainly the Crown Jewel of pool games, IMO.

Chris Cass
08-04-2002, 09:19 AM
Hi Steve,

Don't forget to mention it leads to baldness too.

Regards,

C.C.~~lost his hair playing 1 hole.