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justbrake
05-16-2004, 05:13 PM
szamboti,Titlist,spain,etc.and why do cue makers use others!

BLACKHEART
05-16-2004, 05:33 PM
/ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gifBecause THEY ARE ALL DEAD...JER

Popcorn
05-16-2004, 05:35 PM
Szamboti is dead, Spain is dead, Titlist were not bad, but are junk compared to what most any cue maker can build themselves. Why would anyone want someone else's blank anyway? It is a mystery why people are paying so much money for old Titlist butts and having them turned into cues. Are they pretending they own an original Balabushka, or trying to build fakes? The only reason I would say a cuemaker would use one is because they know there is a market for the cues, certainly, not because they think they are superior to what they themselves can build. If players are dopey enough to pay for them, I guess the cuemakers figure, what the heck.

justbrake
05-16-2004, 06:14 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> Szamboti is dead, Spain is dead, Titlist were not bad, but are junk compared to what most any cue maker can build themselves. Why would anyone want someone else's blank anyway? It is a mystery why people are paying so much money for old Titlist butts and having them turned into cues. Are they pretending they own an original Balabushka, or trying to build fakes? The only reason I would say a cuemaker would use one is because they know there is a market for the cues, certainly, not because they think they are superior to what they themselves can build. If players are dopey enough to pay for them, I guess the cuemakers figure, what the heck. <hr /></blockquote>


popcorn- you must of had read in between the lines of my question,"especialy why turning a titlist cue!" (dam!) so anyway,why did other cue makers use other blanks,szamboti did it, didn't he, didn't others do the same!

Popcorn
05-16-2004, 06:30 PM
Actually, Szamboti supplied blanks to some cue makers including Balabushka, as did Spain. People would use others blanks simply because the were not capable of building their own. Many cuemakers such as Rocky Tillis just built plain nose pieces, no splicing and did some inlay in the cue and used rings and so forth behind the wrap. I know a sort of name cue maker, who would just take production cues and change the butt sleeve to something custom, maybe change the joint. He did some pretty good inlay and when he was done he had a custom cue that actually started out as a low end Palmer or Viking and ended up a more fancy cue he would sign as his own, who would know. At one point he was using import cues that sold for little more then $50.00 and had pretty decent point work to turn into custom jobs. This guy is still around by the way and may even read this board. I'd bet he wasn't the only one doing stuff like that.

justbrake
05-16-2004, 06:30 PM
"certainly, not because they think they are superior to what they themselves can build"

but let me ask this then, if they could build a better blank then why are alot of there superior cues big $$$ and are collectables and really not playerables there putting out art instead of player cues,these blanks that you say they could make!(imo) are really art instead and are collectors items, I might be wrong if so please correct me on this

Popcorn
05-16-2004, 06:40 PM
I will tell you something funny, A few years ago they had the BCA show in Louisville and just by coincidence there was a pool room closing down the street from the convention center. One of the cuemakers wandered down there. Turns out, every house cue in the place is a Hoppe Titlist. He bought them all for something like $2.00 apiece, about 200 of them.

larrynj1
05-16-2004, 09:29 PM
the reason cuemakers,back in the day,bought blanks from szamboti and spain, or used titlist butts, was that they were unable to make a quality full-splice themselves.

Popcorn
05-17-2004, 02:57 AM
I don't believe they were supplying full spliced blanks. I am almost sure they were short splice. Although the titlist was a full splice house cues. A guy in the pool room years back had a Balabushka with the titlist butt. The wrap came off and he just taped it up and played with it like that. I remember seeing the butt with the wrap off and the blank had been cut and used like a short spliced blank. I guess so he could balance the cue. If I remember right it had been cut about 3 inches behind the beginning of the wrap. I don't know that he did this to all his cues made from the titlist cues, but that is the way this one was made. I think one of the reasons cue makers used blanks back then also was, cues did not sell for much and they did not want to invest in equipment or spend time making something they could just buy. Very few, (if any of them), made any real money building cues. I had a second hand Balabushka I paid $60.00 for and the original price was only $80.00.

RedHell
05-17-2004, 07:40 AM
Could it be that cuemaker who wants to build a copy understand that by using the same materiel (or blanks in this case) it allows them to get as close as possible to the original ?

Just a thought !

Chris Cass
05-17-2004, 08:27 AM
Hi Red,

I heard once a long time ago that you could give two cuemakers the same material and both will build a different cue. Odviously he can't perform the same work.

Regards,

C.C.

BLACKHEART
05-17-2004, 08:55 AM
/ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif 1st of all, it sounds like you think that the blanks you site, are better than those that are being made today. I think the opposite. The Qmakers of old, didn't do anything different, than those of us today. There's no secret formula. Furthermore, todays glues &amp; machinery are FAR superior, to those of yesteryear. If anything, Qs of today are better built, than at any time in history. Structurally the short splice &amp; the full spliced butts are still being made today, in exactly the same way &amp; with some of the exact machinery, as was used 40 years ago only with better glue. I think because some of the Qs of old, demand very high prices, it's thought that they were built better. WRONG...JER

RedHell
05-17-2004, 10:02 AM
Chris,

I sure your right about different cue makers doing different cues with the same material, and I agree with you.

But in this case the objective is to copy and not create. If I was to order a copy from an experience cue maker, I would hope he would use the same technics, material and specs than the original master was using.

Even then I wouldn't expect the exact replica in feel, but my guess is it could be the closest match you could get.

It's like when someone make counterfit money, they (I assume) try to get the materials the closest to real money they can get, same with ink and so on....

A copy of a bushka will always remain that, a copy...

Cueless Joey
05-17-2004, 10:03 AM
Very true.
They used horse glue and wood glue then.
They did have better wood though.

Popcorn
05-17-2004, 11:55 AM
Maybe, but if you want to build a tribute to that famous cue, you can build a copy yourself, same colors and so on. The end result will most likely, (I would say certainly) be a better cue. Let's face it, those were mass produced cues for the home and pool room market and not a lot of quality control. With the current age of those old house cues, if you came across one, it's usefulness would be suspect, even if it appeared OK. I can see some cuemakers coring one maybe and feeling more confident it would be a good cue. But Still, why even mess with that old junk. Build a good solid butt yourself.

RedHell
05-17-2004, 12:01 PM
I'm not knowledgeable enough in cue making to disagree with you on this. I assumed that an old titlis would be of enough good quality to obtain the same quality that Balabushka was getting.

An interesting opinion on the matter would be from Pizza Bob, I think he got a titlis converted to a Bushka copie by Mike Capone. He might be able to tell us what technic Mike used compare to Balabushka and how good was the end result ?

justbrake
05-17-2004, 01:06 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote BLACKHEART:</font><hr> /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif 1st of all, it sounds like you think that the blanks you site, are better than those that are being made today. I think the opposite. The Qmakers of old, didn't do anything different, than those of us today. There's no secret formula. Furthermore, todays glues &amp; machinery are FAR superior, to those of yesteryear. If anything, Qs of today are better built, than at any time in history. Structurally the short splice &amp; the full spliced butts are still being made today, in exactly the same way &amp; with some of the exact machinery, as was used 40 years ago only with better glue. I think because some of the Qs of old, demand very high prices, it's thought that they were built better. WRONG...JER <hr /></blockquote>

imo - cues that are aged already and didn't warp yet are more of an assurance of not warping(now or later) then a new one built today where as it is a gamble to me as it might warp next week or in 3 months from now,who knows! imo

Popcorn
05-17-2004, 02:05 PM
I would have to say, not as good as if Capone had built him a cue from scratch. I am guessing but, I would say that when Balabushka used those blanks, they were new from Brunswick, and from what I know about him, he may have picked through dozens, before he selected and bought them for his own use. Now you fast forward to today and some guy finds an old butt in a warehouse somewhere that was in a pool room for years, subjected to who know what over the years. I would dare say, this would not be one of the cues Balabushka would have selected for his personal use. The idea that if you use the same kind of blank that Balabushka, used will give you an equal cue is kind of silly. At best, they were inferior even when he used them, to a properly built blank like he began getting from Spain and Szamboti. I am sure he knew that himself. Hay, what do I know, you have people paying $400. and more today for sneaky Petes built from $12.00 house cues.

Popcorn
05-17-2004, 02:19 PM
I don't really understand what you are talking about. Being collectable does not in itself indicate quality. I got rid of a 64 1/2 Mustang not long ago. It was worth quit a bit and a cool car, but the car at best was a piece of crap. In reality, not even safe to drive by today standards. I had no problem selling it though. If Balabushke was alive today, he would be build cues the way today's cue makers do, with the better glues, finishes and so on.

Cueless Joey
05-17-2004, 02:45 PM
True that.
No points blanks are probably the best.

RedHell
05-17-2004, 03:02 PM
I wouldn't know...

Did Balabushka spent that much time selecting his blank ? Does a cues that hasn't warp over 20 years less of one that is new ?

These are all question that needs to be ask to Cuemakers.

I'm afraid my knowledge limits me to the previous assumption I did.

To get to the closer end result, you start to with the closer components !!!

Popcorn
05-17-2004, 03:49 PM
I have owned several Balabushkas, in fact I still have a couple. Todays cues are better in my opinion. If he were alive today making cues today just as he did back then, he could not give them away.

tateuts
05-17-2004, 05:27 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> I have owned several Balabushkas, in fact I still have a couple. Todays cues are better in my opinion. If he were alive today making cues today just as he did back then, he could not give them away. <hr /></blockquote>

I always wondered about the Balabuska mystique. It reminded me of the story the "Emporers New Clothes" by Hans Christian Anderson.

Here's my version:

One day the great Emporer, Sir William of Mosconi, summoned three cue makers to his castle court. Sir William was a skilled pocket billiard player, but was known for missing each 100th ball in a run. The triple digit runs were too much for his royal nerves.

He challeneged each of them that they must make him the most special of cues in two days, or they would be hung by the thumbs until dead.

The cue-makers were sent to their shops in the dungeon to begin their work. They were Rambow the Great, Franklin of Paradise, and a little man known only as "George". Rambow and Franklin quickly went to work. When Rambow was finished, he saw "George" sitting at his spinning lathe quietly with a tear in his eye with no cue. He said "Come to your senses man. Make the Emporer a cue if you value your life." Poor George admitted that he could not make points. Taking pity on him, Rambow gave George a forearm and said "Use this. My gift, it is my extra, I always make two because you have to set up anyway. Now go make a great cue". Thanking him, George went to work on the cue.

Two days later, the cue-makers were brought forth. Each stood before the king.

The first to present his cue was Rambow, the Great. Rambow handed his cue to William and said:

"See my cue, my liege. It has 4 points, 4 veeners, cortland wrap, an ivory joint and a ring on the buttsleeve. See the French diamond inlays, with mother of pearl dots. With this cue, you have classic elegance, a worthy tool for your sport." Truly, the cue was a classic and competent design. Emporer William nodded and told him he was free to go.

The next to present was Franklin of Paradise. Franklin handed his cue to the Emporer and said:

" See my cue, my liege. It is made of a rare space age material that is as strong as steel but one tenth it's weight. It is perfectly clear, and is weighted with marbles. This cue is solid plastic and no other on the planet is remotely like it. With this cue, you have a truly modern design". The Emporer could see right through the cue and agreed that it was unique. Emporer William nodded and told him he was free to go.

With that, George stepped forward. He was worried that his cue looked just like Rambow the Great's, and he knew the name "George" was not exactly impressive. His cue was lacking both ivory and inlays. So instead of inlays, he embellished the cue with a story.


" See my cue, my liege. It is known as a Balabushka. While the wood is plain and the joint is steel, while the veneers look just like a lowly house cue, while the wrap is but plain nylon, this cue has one special property. With it you will pocket each and every 100th ball without fail."

The emporer looked at this plain cue and was skeptical. He ordered the guards to sieze George and take him to the pocket billiard table. The Emporer screwed the cue together and racked 15 balls. Rack after rack he ran until he was on his 99th ball. He called out corner pocket and nervously shot the ball. Alas, it was too short and too hard. The ball bounded around the table four rails and rolled right into the corner pocket just as called. " It's a miracle. " the Emporer declared, and proceeded to run 99 more balls. The 200th ball was a diffucult shot but this time went straight into the pocket. Again and again the emporer shot and time and time agin the balls went in. 300, 400, even the 500th ball went in. The Emporer finally missed the 527th ball. George was a little nervous but the Emporer gave him a big hug "Alas George, I am now the greatest player in the land, and with it you are the greatest cue-maker in the land. I missed that shot, but I know if it was the 600th ball, it would have gone in. "

And that is how the Balabushka became the greatest cue in the land!

Chris

PQQLK9
05-17-2004, 05:44 PM
Brilliant!

DMoney1644
05-18-2004, 08:48 PM
you skipped the part about the child telling the emperor that the product he had received was sh!t and the emperor realizing he was a dumbass. but we'll overlook that mistake as im sure the original author left out the part where the emperor imediately kicked that little kid's ass to compensate for his stupidity. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

fullsplice
05-23-2004, 12:28 PM
I've spent the last three years learning, building and perfecting my own version of a full splice with veneer blank. Along the way I did as much research as I could about blanks, mainly fullsplice but short as well, and the guys that made them to get a feel for the history involved. Burton Spain is probably the most facinating because of his intelligence (member of the Mensa Society)and the way that his blanks adapted and improved over the years. In the 50's and 60's most did not have a clue of how a blank was made and there seemed to be an assumption that blank making required some sort of big high dollar equipment that only a company like Brunswick could afford. Rambow surely knew how because he worked for Brunswick but he probably had easy access to Titlists and didn't want to or need to buy the additional equipment needed to make his own. Then pool went through a downslide and the careful work Brunswick had put into their Titlist blanks slid as well. The quality coupled with the fact that woods like Ebony and Brazilian Rosewood were no longer being used, opened the door to others who wanted to try their hand at making blanks. I could write a book about all of this but I'll spare everyone. I can only speak for myself when it comes to using Titlist blanks but it has nothing to do with the market, collectability or if a desire is even out there. When I get a Titlist in my shop I look at it as a piece of history and treat it as such. I'm thankful that there are still some out there that cuemakers such as myself can work on and even possibly learn from. There were a lot of valid points about the old Titlists in this post. Glue issues, costs of conversions today etc... They are a piece of cuemaking history and you either appreciate it or you don't. I call my full splices "modern day full splice cues" because I'm able to take advantage of technology like epoxy and coring drills that enable me to make a full splice out of any wood while still mantaining a consistent balance and hit. Doing these splices with veneer have also made my sneaky petes better by allowing the bottom of the splice to also come to a point rather than being squared off like most. I also sell blanks to other cuemakers so I'm guilty of that as well. Today my blank customers range from small time cuemakers who don't know how or can't afford to buy the equipment needed, to some larger more well known guys who don't want to take the time involved to make a low end sneaky but still see the value and superior charactaristics in my blanks. Sorry for the length but I thought I could share in a slightly different perspective.

Mark Bear
www.bearcues.com (http://www.bearcues.com)

Popcorn
05-23-2004, 02:11 PM
Looking at your web site it looks like the bottom of the points are square.

fullsplice
05-23-2004, 02:54 PM
The picture that is on the website under the heading full splice blanks, are the first generation full splices that I still offer as blanks to cuemakers. The full splice cues with veneer that come to a point at the bottom of the splice, just like the Titlists, are currently only available as finished cues. This is due to the work that is involved in producing these cues. Sneaky petes blanks(without veneer) come to a point at the bottom of the splice and blanks with veneer are squared off. Just the way I'm currently offering them right now.

Fred Agnir
05-23-2004, 03:33 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> I don't believe they were supplying full spliced blanks. I am almost sure they were short splice. Although the titlist was a full splice house cues. A guy in the pool room years back had a Balabushka with the titlist butt. The wrap came off and he just taped it up and played with it like that. I remember seeing the butt with the wrap off and the blank had been cut and used like a short spliced blank. I guess so he could balance the cue. If I remember right it had been cut about 3 inches behind the beginning of the wrap. I don't know that he did this to all his cues made from the titlist cues, but that is the way this one was made.<hr /></blockquote>... I hear there was an article in InsidePool that answered some of these questions....

Anyway... the original buzz ring was devised by George. He would either cut a full-spliced Titlist at 18" or so, or he when he used Burton Spain's ebony full-spliced blanks, he'd leave it at the 18" and connect it to the handle using a buzz ring. THe buzz ring is what you see under the wrap.

Most of the Burton Spain rosewood full-splice blanks were full length, so George would groove and wrap it. Although Burton was making half-splice blanks at the time, according to Burton, George never bought any half-spliced blanks from him. Only 18" ebony full-splice shorties or full length full-spliced rosewood.

For those who are getting confused with terminology, there are full splice blanks, short splice blanks (which are full spliced), and half-spliced, as far as pointed blanks are concerned.

Fred &lt;~~~ toot toot

Fred Agnir
05-23-2004, 03:36 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote RedHell:</font><hr> I'm not knowledgeable enough in cue making to disagree with you on this. I assumed that an old titlis would be of enough good quality to obtain the same quality that Balabushka was getting.
<hr /></blockquote>The reason why Balabushka moved on from Titlists to Spain was because the Titlist quality no longer suited him. So, you'd have to be quite a time traveler to figure out just what George like and didn't like from Titltist.

Fred

Cueless Joey
05-23-2004, 03:43 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Anyway... the original buzz ring was devised by George. He would either cut a full-spliced Titlist at 18" or so, or he when he used Burton Spain's ebony full-spliced blanks, he'd leave it at the 18" and connect it to the handle using a buzz ring. THe buzz ring is what you see under the wrap.
<hr /></blockquote>
Fred, was their any reason why George would cut down a full-splice cue?
The buzz ring is still popular these days but really has not prevented buzzing in a lot of cues. Using metal bolts/studs in the A-joint is probably the culprit. Specially if the cavity for the metal stud is not tapped properly. I have been taught not to use metal studs in this area.

fullsplice
05-23-2004, 09:18 PM
Short splice cues are glued together using a threaded tenon (threads on wood or metal stud) and boring the other half to accept the male tenon. Without the use of a phenolic ring there is some end grain of the two woods glued together. When the cue vibrates from hitting a ball, this end grain bond is weakened and eventually fails causing the buzz. The tenon is still glued and there is no danger of this bond failing, just the end grains of the woods. The phenolic creates a better bond which is much less likely to fail...even if it did, it wouldn't make near the noise as the two end grains of wood. This is all under the assumption that the tenon has been done properly. The true solution to the buzz issue is the full splice. George also understood the affects of vibration and to counter act some of this he would short splice the cue further down under the wrap to take advantage of the cues thickness and further reduce the affects of vibration. Apparently he ordered equal amounts of ebony short splice blanks and rosewood full splices. Weight being the reason for the short and full.

Cueless Joey
05-23-2004, 10:08 PM
Mark, my mentor makes cues without metal studs. Wood to wood. His A-joint is the best imo . He has cues out there that have been played for years and none have developed any buzzing. I even bought a used one that was heavily used in the desert area for years. No buzzing. He won't use phenolic buzz ring b/c he thinks it kills some of the wood's reasonance and that he has never found it to be necessary.
We've come across several cues with buzzing. One made by a prominent cuemaker. We saw under the wrap a thick phenolic ring. It still buzzed.
Cuemakers Arnot and Skip Weston also do not believe in metal studs. Imo, in using metal studs, it introduces a material inside the cue that potentially will buzz as soon as the epoxy gives and/or the cavity for it expands or the threads aren't that good.
Full-splice is a great design of course. More gluing surface, no metal in between the handle and the forearm and probably stronger.

Fred Agnir
05-24-2004, 07:10 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cueless Joey:</font><hr>

Fred, was their any reason why George would cut down a full-splice cue?<hr /></blockquote>The only reason that I know of is if the customer insisted on having decorative rings above the wrap. Then he'd be forced to move the splice up there. There have been rumors that he made some split rings, but I don't know if those are true.

[ QUOTE ]
The buzz ring is still popular these days but really has not prevented buzzing in a lot of cues. Using metal bolts/studs in the A-joint is probably the culprit. Specially if the cavity for the metal stud is not tapped properly. I have been taught not to use metal studs in this area. <hr /></blockquote> I think that George's solution was targeted at one problem: end-grain glue failure.

Fred

Fred

Fred Agnir
05-24-2004, 07:14 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote fullsplice:</font><hr> Apparently he ordered equal amounts of ebony short splice blanks and rosewood full splices. Weight being the reason for the short and full. <hr /></blockquote>I'm sure you know, but I just wanted to clarify the terminology again. The short ebony blanks that George got from Burton were full-spliced 18" shorty blanks. The rosewood blanks were full length full-spliced blanks. If George ever got half-spliced blanks from the Spain machinery, they would be from John Davis.

Fred &lt;~~~ clear as mud

Cueless Joey
05-24-2004, 08:46 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I think that George's solution was targeted at one problem: end-grain glue failure.
<hr /></blockquote>
Thanks Fred.
That problem isn't so common now with strong epoxy and sealer.

Popcorn
05-24-2004, 10:04 AM
Does your friend turn the tenon that is threaded from the handle, or from the nose piece? I use a different assemble all together, but when I did do the tenon type, I made the nose piece longer and cut and threaded the tenon from the nose piece, threading it into the handle. I would say, with coring now many cuemakers now do it that way also, or use the double tenon as I do . I am not sure I buy end grain buzzing thing since the amount of end grain left after turning the tenon is minimal. The main problem with gluing end grain is it can suck up the glue and starve the joint. If you use a slow setting epoxy, (As you should use any time you are gluing woods with epoxy, no 5 minute stuff ), and do a "wet out" which means you apply the epoxy and let the wood soak it in for a while, then apply some more epoxy and do your assembly, there should be no problem. You could make an argument that the "buzz ring" may itself increase the chances of failure since you now have two joining surfaces instead of one. I think the proper choice of epoxy for the application, wetting out when using epoxy with wood and good precision machining and fitting of the parts, should eliminate any problems. The cue you say had the phenolic ring with the buzz, I would say, the problem was not the use of the phenolic ring, but something to do with the actual original assembly that caused the problem. This is not a debate, I think a cue can be assembled any number of ways and not have failures if properly done. I do think some ways may increase the possibility though. Cues are not put under a lot of stress but they do vibrate. However subtle, vibration can be a very destructive force over time.

Cueless Joey
05-24-2004, 10:21 AM
Pop, my mentor would rather not me discuss the specifics of his A-joint. But, I am 100% convinced it's the best and have already made by blanks the same way.
You are 100% right on slow-setting epoxy. He uses a slow-setting one with a 4000 lbs. shear strength epoxy. Very expensive but worth the money. Once the forearm and handle are joined, threaded tight, do the "wetting" and some prep ( make sure the ends are flat but a little rough so epoxy holds better), buzzing is almost 100% eliminated unless the woods shrink or epoxy gives. Those 5 minute epoxies melt at much lower temperature than the slow-setting ones. Less strength as well, so he does not use them except on ferrules.
I think nowadays the biggest culprit of buzzing is the metal stud and drill-tapped cavity for them.
I don't believe in the buzz ring either.

fullsplice
05-24-2004, 12:52 PM
Just wanted to set the record straight. What I wrote about the A joint and the phenolic ring was directly related to Burton Spain and his thoughts and experiences with Balabushka. It was the way he explained it that interested me and I wanted to share. I build my cues differently as most claim to and didn't mean to open up the can of worms here. I try and build almost all of my cues using a full splice because I feel it is the best way.

Popcorn
05-24-2004, 02:54 PM
I only met Burton Spain once, but what started out as a few minutes turned into a whole day of discussion and we spoke on the phone a few other times. He was a very interesting guy. Not everything he proposed I found to be good though. Depending at what point you caught him, he may say something that he may change his mind on later. Some of his cues had Delrin joints and he even experimented with Delrin ferrules. I don't like any material on the cue that can not be a permanent part of the cue. The Delrin but cap for instance. It was used by Balabushka and Szamboti as well as other top name cuemakers, (some still use it). In my opinion it does not belong on a cue. It has to be either threaded on or held in place with a screw. Glue will not hold it. It also creates problems with finishing. You had to create a step at the butt cap so the finish could flow up to it and be buffed level. Until the popularity of the South West cue and the use of phenolics, in the butts and joints, many cuemakers copied what they saw Balabushka do, but that did not make it the best. It is an evolving art and cuemakers today are pretty innovative with their designs and the way they are putting cues together. Going way back I liked the Martin cue and played with one for a long time till it got stolen. Had the big screw and an ivory joint and butt cap. I thought it was one of the most solid playing cues I have owned. Simple design and minimal in construction.

Cueless Joey
05-24-2004, 03:23 PM
Pop,
I have Burton's Chronicles of Making Blanks.
Imo it's outdated. What worked then doesn't really apply now,

Rod
05-24-2004, 03:56 PM
[ QUOTE ]
They are a piece of cuemaking history and you either appreciate it or you don't. <hr /></blockquote>

I do, I love the look of the old ones. Thanks for sharing the story. I do have a question. Do you think you could identify an old Palmer? I think it is a Palmer made with Spain blank. It has 5 veneers and I just have never found out for sure. I'd have to cut off the wrap to see if it is a full splice. I bought it in 1970 and was told it was 1 1/2 years old. I still have never seen one exactly like it.

Rod

Popcorn
05-24-2004, 04:02 PM
If that is that kind of brief thing about 10 or 15 pages, I have it also. It was kind of a work in progress. He seemed to experiment a lot and his ideas and opinions were always changing.

Frank_Glenn
05-24-2004, 04:25 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr> &lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
They are a piece of cuemaking history and you either appreciate it or you don't. <hr /></blockquote>

I do, I love the look of the old ones. Thanks for sharing the story. I do have a question. Do you think you could identify an old Palmer? I think it is a Palmer made with Spain blank. It has 5 veneers and I just have never found out for sure. I'd have to cut off the wrap to see if it is a full splice. I bought it in 1970 and was told it was 1 1/2 years old. I still have never seen one exactly like it.

Rod <hr /></blockquote>

Put up pictures and I'm sure someone will ID it.

Rod
05-24-2004, 10:24 PM
Thanks Frank,

Maybe but no one has for sure yet. I don't have a web site but it is a good idea.

Rod

Cueless Joey
05-24-2004, 11:00 PM
mypicgallery (http://mypicgallery.com/mpg/Route.asp)
Upload your pics here and link them.
It's free.

Rod
05-24-2004, 11:28 PM
Thanks Joey, that was very helpful. Here is the old pup. I really like it it has run the most racks and balls of any cue I have owned, I think. However I put it in retirement years ago. The butt is different than any Palmer I've seen. That large aluminum screw has a threaded inside end to add a steel screw for weight. Let me know what you think this really is. I apprciate the help. The site is my cue (http://cues.MyPicGallery.com)

Rod

Cueless Joey
05-24-2004, 11:47 PM
WOW!
What a classic!

SPetty
05-25-2004, 06:54 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr>That large aluminum screw has a threaded inside end to add a steel screw for weight.<hr /></blockquote>Nice cue, Rod.

I thought the "screw hole within the weight screw" was used for attaching a rubber bumper to the butt of the cue. That's what I saw one time when I removed a screw on rubber bumper...

Rod
05-25-2004, 12:28 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I thought the "screw hole within the weight screw" was used for attaching a rubber bumper to the butt of the cue. That's what I saw one time when I removed a screw on rubber bumper... <hr /></blockquote>

SPetty,

Yes it is but this screw is threaded at both ends. A small one to hold on the bumper and on the large threaded end it is drilled and threaded inside to accept a 1/4" steel stud or screw. You just don't have a view of both ends. That cue has a lot of miles on it. Thanks, glad you like the cue.

Rod

Rod
05-25-2004, 12:31 PM
Thanks Joey, any ideas on the forearm? And no I won't trade for your moochie! lol

Rod