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scrappy
05-17-2004, 11:09 PM
Just wondering if anyone at the BCA's has anything to write
on any of the action going on down there.
Who won the singles events?
Any powerhouse teams competing anyone knows about?
Thirsty for action.

Chris Cass
05-18-2004, 10:05 AM
Hi ya Scrappy,

This is how stupid the BCA is. My buddy Jamie Bowman takes off the Open Singles 3 yrs ago. Then, loses in the Masters (go figure) two yrs in a row and now he's back in the Open singles. Last I heard he was on the winners side at 9th thru 12th. Sucka's all, you have to do is dump two yrs in a row in the masters and your automatically in the open again. Now Dad Dwaine just went two and out for the second yr in the masters. Wait till next yr. LOL Can you say, Crack Team? LOL Can't understand why they didn't let Bobby Pickle in the Open again?

Loves a good joke,

C.C.

pooljunkie73
05-18-2004, 12:35 PM
LMAO...Ya think thats bad Chris? A friend of mine is playing in the pro event for the third year, they still have him listed as an "open" player. Makes ya wonder, doesn't it.

Kent Mc.

Scott Lee
05-18-2004, 01:05 PM
Chris...It seems like "beating the system" is a source of pride for a lot of poolplayers. To me, it's just another form of hustling and cheating. Personally, if I couldn't win something honestly, strictly by my own talent, I wouldn't even want to play. We've talked about this before. Jamie is a pro player...like it or not! He should not be playing in 'open' amateur tournaments, but should be eligible to pay his entry and play in ANY pro event. The PGA does not have these kinds of problems, with people out trying to fake their ability or credentials. Either you can step up and play, or you don't get to the big show...which, of course, is where the big money is! Character, backbone, and honesty, will eventually bring the sponsorhip money. There are already quite a few pro players that qualify with those traits. Unfortunately they are outnumbered by those that seek to take unfair advantage...whether it be a loophole in the contract, or "hiding" your speed. It's still hustling and cheating.
There are 178 pros on the PGA tour every year. Many of them are millionaires. Few, if any, of them, are 'hustlers' and cheaters.

Scott Lee

Wally_in_Cincy
05-18-2004, 01:15 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chris Cass:</font><hr> ... My buddy Jamie Bowman takes off the Open Singles 3 yrs ago. Then, loses in the Masters (go figure) two yrs in a row and now he's back in the Open singles. Last I heard he was on the winners side at 9th thru 12th.... <hr /></blockquote>

IIRC he and his brother Jesse are on an open team. I would say read about it at AZB but that site is super-slow right now.

Vagabond
05-18-2004, 08:56 PM
Hi Mr.Scott Lee,
Can u please explain how u consider/equate Hustling as cheating? cheers
Vagabond /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Tom_In_Cincy
05-18-2004, 09:42 PM
Vagabond

I am interested in why you think 'hustling' isn't at least dishonest, let alone cheating?

Popcorn
05-18-2004, 10:38 PM
Hustling is certainly not being honest, but then I am never honest when I am playing poker. In fact my intent is to deceive my opponents so I can win, even if I may have the losing hand. Cheating would imply a violation of a set rule. There are no rules in pool that say I have to play my best all the time or be totally up front with the guy I am playing. As long as I play by the rules that is the way it goes. Deceptive, yes, cheating, no.

Chris Cass
05-18-2004, 10:51 PM
I know all about it. I only knew about it last yr. LOL Your going to have that. It's all about money. I do have a profound respect for Larry Nevel. He's not trying to hide anything. He went for it and he deserves it too. That's what I call a player.

Regards,

C.C.

Chris Cass
05-18-2004, 10:57 PM
Hi Scott,

I have to disagree with you on Jamie being a pro but he definitely is a master. Well, he's now working for the guy that's running the Vegas tourney setting up tables. So, he's working for it too. I like Jamie and Jesse as if we were brothers. They're very close to me. I don't like what's happening but these rules are so dumb.

When you turn Senior you can play the Open too. What's up with that? I'm still trying to get over John Lewis letting Bobby Pickle in the Open when I lost to him. That was my event. So I thought. LOL

Oh, the worst place on the PGA is still a millionare.

Regards,

C.C.~~ /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Chris Cass
05-18-2004, 11:00 PM
Hey Scott,

I got a joke for ya. What's the difference between the BCA and the ACS? The tables they play on. HAHAHAHAHA

C.C.~~call me when your coming to town. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Vagabond
05-19-2004, 04:53 AM
Howdy Popcorn,
Tap!Tap!
U explained the phenomenon like a professor in a class room.
The hussled players are NOT unsuspecting individuals.Cheers
Vagabond /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

raistlin
05-19-2004, 05:34 AM
Popcorn/Vagabond: I bet neither of you would call a foul on yourself if your opponent didn't see it either, would you?

There isn't a rule for doing that, it is all about integrity and personal honour, something that neither of you would know anything about (by the sound of it).

pooltchr
05-19-2004, 06:10 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> Hustling is certainly not being honest, but then I am never honest when I am playing poker. In fact my intent is to deceive my opponents so I can win, even if I may have the losing hand. Cheating would imply a violation of a set rule. There are no rules in pool that say I have to play my best all the time or be totally up front with the guy I am playing. As long as I play by the rules that is the way it goes. Deceptive, yes, cheating, no. <hr /></blockquote>

I would agree that hustling requires a bit of deception. However, when someone holds back in order to be rated lower than their actual skill level, and then plays in events designed for lower level players, that in my opinion is where the line is crossed.

TRalph
05-19-2004, 06:34 AM
Anyone intersted!! July 2-4, 2004. West Side Charlies, Torbay Road, St John's NL. 9-Ball. Total Purse of $21,400.00. 1st place - $10,000.00. Top 32 places paid out.Top Lady in tournament $400.00. To register e-mail torbay@westsidecharlies.com or call(709)722-9378. Only a few spots left out of 128. Over $6000.00 added to prize pot. All players are welcome, Pro's, Masters, Ladies and Amateurs. See you there!!!

Keith Talent
05-19-2004, 08:35 AM
Hey, you might want to put this in as a new post ...

But it's kind of interesting, considering the purse and the location, which is wayyy out in the Atlantic about half-way to Ireland.

I once met a couple of Newfies on a cross-Canada train and they were telling me all about the great time you'd have bar-hopping on the main drag in St. John's. This was before they got tossed out of the bar car, that is. Anyway, to hear them tell it ... you go down da main street in St. Jahhn's and ya have a bare in the burr ... then ya go out about two steps down da street and ya have another bare in da next burr ... and so on. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Wally_in_Cincy
05-19-2004, 08:55 AM
I met a guy from up there. He said he ate so much lobster he was sick of it. It was like hot dogs or bologna to the natives.

Popcorn
05-19-2004, 09:06 AM
In that situation I would call that a form of cheating since with no correct analysis of the players speed, the system won't work. It is so detrimental to the working of the system that I would make "Sand bagging" The most serious infraction. I would require players to sign an agreement to play. The intent of a handicapping system is to create an environment of equal and fair competition. Attempts to circumvent this intent, would be cheating in my opinion

Popcorn
05-19-2004, 09:26 AM
When you are playing without a referee, it is an understood rule you call fouls on yourself when it comes up. It is not expected that your opponent has to hang all over you, so you don't move the balls or something. I do it all the time as do most all players when they are matched up. You mean you don't? You obviously don't gamble, or are subconsciously injecting what are your own feelings. In other words, you are saying if you were gambling that is what you would do, leading you to assume, others must be doing it also. Gamblers are some of the most honorable people I know. I would trust a gambler long before a majority of the people we deal with everyday such as, salesmen, car mechanic and so on, possibly even what ever your chosen profession may be..

Scott Lee
05-19-2004, 10:55 AM
Chris...You're right, the rules are dumb AND vague! I agree with your assessment of Larry Nevel. Step up and show your speed! BTW, I have to apologize a little...I actually was talking about Jesse, when I said he was DEFINITELY a pro. I know Jamie is a notch below Jesse.
Either way, the rules, the way they are, make it easy for those that want to, to find ways around them. Maybe this will change someday. Pool is on it's way as a global sport, and perhaps things will be unified in the future. For the sake of the sport, I hope so.

Scott

Scott Lee
05-19-2004, 11:01 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> In that situation I would call that a form of cheating since with no correct analysis of the players speed, the system won't work. It is so detrimental to the working of the system that I would make "Sand bagging" The most serious infraction. I would require players to sign an agreement to play. The intent of a handicapping system is to create an environment of equal and fair competition. Attempts to circumvent this intent, would be cheating in my opinion <hr /></blockquote>

Popcorn...This is exactly the way I ran my APA leagues, 10-12 years ago. There was a form that ALL members of the team had to sign, that was extremely strict on sportsmanship, as well as sandbagging. Break the rules, and you were out! It worked wonders! Everybody had fun, and there was an equal chance for any team to win their way to Las Vegas for the nationals. Too bad L.O.'s across the country don't implement the same kind of system. Many of them complain that their leagues are too big to 'police', but I don't buy it. It's all in how much they care (or don't care). If I could do it by myself, with 500 players, it can be done on a much larger scale, imo.

Scott Lee

tateuts
05-19-2004, 03:30 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> When you are playing without a referee, it is an understood rule you call fouls on yourself when it comes up. <hr /></blockquote>

There is a great golf story about Ben Hogan (I'll do the short version - from memory so forgive if the details are off). In a tourney he knocks his ball in the woods, disappears, and knocks it out. He shoots to the green and one putts for an apparent four. He writes down a 5 on his scorecard. His match partner said "I thought that was a 4". Hogan said "the ball moved when I addressed it - so I took a penalty stroke". The partner says " Well nobody saw it, so that was very honest of you Mr. Hogan. Thank you very much!".

Ben Hogan replied "You might as well thank a man for not robbing the bank!"


Chris