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Waterboy
05-25-2004, 07:57 AM
Hello to everyone. I have a simple question about BCA rules. I started play at this place that hasn't been using BCA rules that long so their unsure about some (they were using another sanctioning body). Last night I broke and ran, but in the process, made one of my opponent's balls. In the other league, this would have given my opponent a zero. But these guys tell me that since I made one of his balls, it's a one. Can someone please clarify this? I've looked on BCA's website and have found nothing on break and runs.

Thanks in advance

Chris Cass
05-25-2004, 08:10 AM
That doesn't sound right to me either. If your opponent broke and came up dry and you then ran out making one of his balls. Then, he would get the point. Only because he got to the table. Otherwise no.

Regards,

C.C.

pooltchr
05-25-2004, 08:41 AM
Actually, that is correct. The way BCA league scoring works in 8 ball is the winner of the game gets 10 points. The loser gets 7 minus the number of his balls remaining on the table at the end of the game. Since you made one of his, his score is 7 minus the 6 remaining balls or a 1.

Waterboy
05-25-2004, 08:48 AM
So what the rules says is: Even if someone doesn't get a chance at the table, they still get points?? That basically means I get punished for a break and run. Please don't think I'm taking this out on you. I just have a problem with the ruling. I appreciate the info.

thanks

Leviathan
05-25-2004, 09:00 AM
That's interesting, Teacher. I can see how this scoring system might encourage some players just to pocket as many balls as possible and forget about the defensive aspects of the game. Do you see that in your BCA league?

AS

breakup
05-25-2004, 09:35 AM
just like if you make a stripe and solid on the break and run out, your opponent gets credit for balls down.

the only time this scoring system affects the way the game is played in practice is if the last player on a team needs say 5 points to win the round and goes for a 5 ball run with no chance of running out rather than playing correctly to try to win. Does not come up all that much but any handicap system will inherently have some holes in it. The upside is it allows teams to get players of lesser skill levels to contribute to the overall team effort by getting credit for balls pocketed. This year my team won our league, myself and another guy were 9s and his wife started as a 5 and ended as a 7, we won the league not because we had the three strongest players but because we won round points. And had a great time in the process.

cheers

RedHell
05-25-2004, 09:50 AM
The ruling itself is consistant with the how the game is played all toghether...

If I break and pocket a stripe and 2 solids and elect to play the stripes but don't run out, you find yourself shooting only for 5 balls and not seven, these 2 balls are automatically credited to you.

Same as for a break and run.

I found myself once in a situation were I had to win a 10-0 game to win the round and the match. I broke and pocket a solid, after looking at the table I quickly realised that the easy run-out was on the stripes, but couldn't play them or I would have left with a 10-1 and tie the round.

Needless to say that my attempt at running out was in futile. /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif

pooltchr
05-25-2004, 10:35 AM
It can get a little strange sometimes, but all-in all, it's pretty fair. I remember playing a game where I broke and ran down to the 8. The 8 was sitting in the jaws of the corner, and I could only kick at it. Made a perfect kick, dropped the 8 and whitie slowly followed it into the pocket. My opponent never got to the table and won the game 10-7.

mworkman
05-25-2004, 11:02 AM
While we are talking about this scoring system, I'm wondering if any of your leagues use a handicapp system?

Our league doesn't, and some of the teams are getting tired of losing all the time. It doesn't seem to hurt the league much because more teams are participating every year. Last year we had 24 teams. I'm just wondering how you could handicapp it? We have the same scoring system I think as you guys described. We play 4 man teams, each man plays everyone once for a total of 16 games. We play by round points, winner of each round gets a point. Also, a point is awarded for total points. Just wondering if anyone that uses this type of system has a handicapp and how does it work?

ChrisW
05-25-2004, 12:40 PM
Each player has a rating. Based on avg points per game, so if you played four games and scored 32 points then your rating would be an 8.
Add up the ratings of your (4) players and then the other teams. the team with the lower total rating would get the difference add to each round.
Example: You have a 6,7 and two 8's. that comes up to 29.
the other team has four 8's which is 32.
Your team would get 3 points added to each round of play.

Works for us without any big problems.
Chris

mworkman
05-25-2004, 01:04 PM
Chris, so if someone is an 8.99 would he still be an 8? If this is true, I would suppose there would be some sandbagging?
Also, does this go by a lifetime average or start over each year?

RedHell
05-25-2004, 01:14 PM
Well after readin your story it reminded me of an odd game that my captain went thru.

He had the break and potted 4 solids on the snap but scratch at the same time. His opponent took BIH behind the head string and try a tough shot on solids (I guess he was lazy), he missed his shot and pocketed the 8.

Guess what, my captain scored on 10-0 on that one... /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

10-0 and all he did was break !

pooltchr
05-25-2004, 01:29 PM
An 8.5 would be a 9. So would a 9.49. With this handicap system, sandbagging is useless to the player and actually makes it harder for the team to win. In order to lower your handicap, you have to shoot lower scores, and that hurts the team. I did the math, and you would cost your team more points to lower your handicap than the team would gain in the team total match-ups. I don't know if they planned it that way, but it sure works!

ChrisW
05-25-2004, 01:29 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote mworkman:</font><hr> Chris, so if someone is an 8.99 would he still be an 8? If this is true, I would suppose there would be some sandbagging?
Also, does this go by a lifetime average or start over each year? <hr /></blockquote>

A 8.5 to 9.49 would be a 9.
So it is just rounded up or down.
Sandbagging is always possible but when
your talking about 1 or 2 points a round it really isn't much.

Ratings usually start over each year.
We have used last years rating for the first few weeks
so that the strong players aren't too under-rated.

Chris