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frankbullett
06-02-2004, 09:56 AM
For what ever its worth to the billiard buying public, my experiences with Muellers out of Nebraska and Olhausen tables was about as bad as it gets. Customer service -1 on a scale of 10. Table was way out of BCA specs. and was not fixable. IT was concaved, off sized pockets and not even the right size. I finally got them to take the table out but with no real offer to fix the problem other than try again and pay them more for a table that they make that will be to specs. Muellers was terrible and showed no real willingness other than charge me over $400.00 for an accessory package that probably cost them $100.00. Finally gave up and got a Brunswick. Hope this saves someone the time and money it has cost me.

Wally_in_Cincy
06-02-2004, 10:31 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote frankbullett:</font><hr> For what ever its worth to the billiard buying public, my experiences with Muellers out of Nebraska and Olhausen tables was about as bad as it gets. Customer service -1 on a scale of 10. Table was way out of BCA specs. and was not fixable.

<font color="blue">They sell Olhausens? </font color>


IT was concaved,

<font color="blue">What was concaved? </font color>

off sized pockets and not even the right size.

<font color="blue">What does that mean. They were all different? They were not what you ordered? </font color>

I finally got them to take the table out but with no real offer to fix the problem other than try again and pay them more for a table that they make that will be to specs. Muellers was terrible and showed no real willingness other than charge me over $400.00 for an accessory package that probably cost them $100.00.

<font color="blue">That's called retail markup </font color>

Finally gave up and got a Brunswick. Hope this saves someone the time and money it has cost me.
<hr /></blockquote>


<font color="blue">As this is your first post you have no credibility estabilished here. How do we know you are not a competitor of theirs? Where do you live? Who set it up?

I've never had any problem with Muellers. I've never bought a table from them either. </font color>

Doctor_D
06-02-2004, 10:37 AM
I would venture to say that this post is utter nonsense and an outright attempt to discredit Muellers. Why would an individual sign on to post with no credible information as to who they are and then attempt to smear a reputable organization unless they had a hidden agenda. The WebMaster should delete this posting.

Dr. D.

Rich R.
06-02-2004, 11:50 AM
I'm sitting here with a copy of the current Mueller's catalog. I don't see any pool tables for sale in the entire catalog.
I don't know where you bought your table, but it seems your problem is with your table dealer, not with Mueller's.

As for the accessory package, I also can not find the one you are referring to. However, Mueller's has the right to sell their products for whatever they want to charge. It is up to the buyer to purchase them from Mueller, or go somewhere else.

Pending further information from you, I will assume there is no truth to your claims.

frankbullett
06-02-2004, 12:27 PM
The table was purchased from the Muellers' store locally. It is owned and operated by Muellers and only sells Olhausen tables. I did not say I purchased it through a catalog. As for the "markup", it was after I gave up and had the table removed they informed me of the full retail value of the package that "came" with the table. That was the first I had heard of the retail value. I had no choice, but to keep the table or spend more on another version (full rails us open pocket) and wanted to get it over with. Muellers said the full rail tables would be compliant. I contacted the national Olhausen rep. and he said all their tables are BCA compliant, Muellers says otherwise and has to do with the open pocket, pin system on the side rails. Therefore, it is my opinion that not only was the installation poor by Muellers but they took the opportunity to nail me on the accessory package. In addition, I believe that Olhausen is not owning up to a construction issue. Most people probably don't measure their new 9 foot tables for BCA spec. Try reading the message first before you jump.

frankbullett
06-02-2004, 12:36 PM
Thats is the only make they sell out of their company store here. Concaved is what I call it when you roll a ball down the side rail and it drifts 4-6 inches out-on all four corners. Both side pockets were 1/4 inch to large at the openings where the rails are cut in, the table was 1/4+ inch wider than the 50 inches which then throws the rail sights off. So what would you do if you just spent three grand to have a tournament spec table that you asked for and was guaranteed play like an $800.00 used table that had been poorly installed? Apparently, from the response, I was supposed to be happy about it and having to go through the hassle of buying another brand and starting over again.

Wally_in_Cincy
06-02-2004, 12:40 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote frankbullett:</font><hr> The table was purchased from the Muellers' store locally. It is owned and operated by Muellers and only sells Olhausen tables. I did not say I purchased it through a catalog. As for the "markup", it was after I gave up and had the table removed they informed me of the full retail value of the package that "came" with the table. That was the first I had heard of the retail value. I had no choice, but to keep the table or spend more on another version (full rails us open pocket) and wanted to get it over with. Muellers said the full rail tables would be compliant. I contacted the national Olhausen rep. and he said all their tables are BCA compliant, Muellers says otherwise and has to do with the open pocket, pin system on the side rails. Therefore, it is my opinion that not only was the installation poor by Muellers but they took the opportunity to nail me on the accessory package. In addition, I believe that Olhausen is not owning up to a construction issue. Most people probably don't measure their new 9 foot tables for BCA spec. Try reading the message first before you jump. <hr /></blockquote>

Try writing more clearly.

You still have not explained what was "out of BCA spec". The side pockets?

This really surprises me about Muellers. They seem to be a very well-run service-oriented company. They gave you a full refund I assume? IMO they should have refunded your money for the accessory package as well.

[ QUOTE ]
Most people probably don't measure their new 9 foot tables for BCA spec. <hr /></blockquote>

You obviously have not spent too much time here /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

frankbullett
06-02-2004, 12:50 PM
I'm not a competitor in any way or manner. I sell real estate and just wanted to get a BCA spec., 9 ft. table installed and paid dearly for it. This was and is my first and only contact with Muellers. I spent two months and several thousand to fix my basement up in waiting for this table. I do however, resent a company who willingly takes a check for about 3K and tells you you are getting what you asked and paid for, then when they don't perform, can't even keep their reasons straight. Olhausen said it was Muellers installation. Muellers said it is a design flaw in the Olhausen open pocket models. I only wanted what I paid for or a reasonable fix. I got to the point that I frankly did not know who to believe where the problems were and moved on at a loss that I don't think anyone but you would be happy with. Measure your Olhausen. Is it to BCA specs? If you don't like what you hear don't read it rather than burn the book.

frankbullett
06-02-2004, 01:00 PM
I am sorry for my inexperience at this and take full responsibility if I was not clear. The side pockets were less than 5-1/8 wide at the mouth. They should be between 5-3/8 to 5-5/8. The Mueller rep. did not seem to think its a big deal but then why have the specs in the first place? Olhausen said they should be in that range. I got a different reason and gave up. Maybe I got the only bad Olhausen table they have ever made and was the only Muellers customer this has ever happened to. That is just a little had for me to believe, hence the message.

SPetty
06-02-2004, 01:04 PM
Hi frankbullett,

This sounds like a horrible experience. Sometimes I wonder if the table selling people remember that several thousands of dollars is a lot of money for many of us. I suspect that they forget that some of us save up for years in order to spend thousands of dollars on what is really a toy. When you work so hard to get something, you expect it to be right.

It's a real shame when it works out so poorly.

As for Mueller's - many of us have many real good experiences ordering from Mueller's via their catalog and web site, which is probably why some have a little trouble believing that they would "do bad" by a customer.

I hope you enjoy your new table now!

Wally_in_Cincy
06-02-2004, 01:13 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote frankbullett:</font><hr> .....Concaved is what I call it when you roll a ball down the side rail and it drifts 4-6 inches out-on all four corners....<hr /></blockquote>

/ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Hmmm... that's not good. That sounds like an installation problem rather than a design problem.

So did you measure the Brunswick yet? Is it made according to BCA specs?

frankbullett
06-02-2004, 01:24 PM
Thanks, I'm still waiting for it. Hope to get it by middle of July. Had to start all over. By the way, I went over to the Brunswick dealer and measured about 8-9 tables before I returned the Olhausen and bought one of theirs. All but 1 were about as perfect as you could get and the 1 was still in the tolerance range. That sold me. I guess the bottom line is that Olhausen and Muellers acted like I was expecting too much and Bruswick thought it was a normal expectation. I had to spend and extra few hundred but after waiting about 30 years for a full size tournament table it will be worth it. Didn't mean to get so many in a tizzy but, how could I not recommend Bruswick and be unhappy with the others. Now, I'll keep my mouth shut and sincerely hope I was the only one to experience this problem. I myself, would appreciate the information as at least a "heads up" if I were on this site looking for information on what to watch for in a table and distributor. Oh, well.

sigep1967
06-02-2004, 01:57 PM
Should have just bought a Diamond Pro. It would not have been much more expensive and I gaurentee it would have been right.

frankbullett
06-02-2004, 02:58 PM
I appreciate the tip. But I was hoping this table would outlive me. I really tried to research this before I spent. I thought it would be so simple just costly. How can you get a bad, big name table in this day and age purchased and installed so poorly by a big name seller. Its not like they have a guy making them with a hand saw and hammer out back. If people heard all of what went on no one, let alone Doctor D, would believe that it could have been so messed up for one customer so many ways. I will be soliciting opinions on all other pool stuff from now on here. Hope that keeps me out of this kind of mess. But, who do I believe now? Ok,is it McDermott or Meucci or what? Is the whole lamination/deflection issue (Preditor and Meucci) that costly in performance? After this beating any high end stuff is out until XMas. Going fishing, hope my luck it better there.

mike_in_iowa
06-02-2004, 09:54 PM
are you out of lincoln or Des Moines? My experiance with Muellers is that the sales staff really does not know much about pool. More of a guy off the street type salesperson. But the same can be said of all the billiard supply stores around. Their prices are great and when I have had a problem they were quick to fix. But then again I did not buy a 3k table from them.

Hmmmm Sell real estate and either from DM or Lincoln. Do I know you and do you want to play some?

mike

Rich R.
06-03-2004, 04:23 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote frankbullett:</font><hr> Try reading the message first before you jump. <hr /></blockquote>
Trust me, you have not seen anyone "jump". What you have seen is a little polite disagreement.

Most of us here know Mueller's as a mail order company and I, for one, was not aware that they had retail stores. I have not seen them mentioned in their catalog.
Also, as most of us have had very good experiences dealing with Mueller's, we do not necessarily trust a new poster, who comes on this message board to trash them.

Your first message should have provided a little more in the way of details. It would have helped a lot.

Whether will Mueller's, or any other company, if you are not happy with the product, return it and get a refund.

Maybe you should have come to this forum, before you made a purchase, and read the many discussions about tables. You may have made a better choice, however, IMHO, I believe your problem is mostly with the set up, but I could be wrong.
Please don't think internet forums are only a good place to trash a company. There is a lot of good information here, if you look.

Wally_in_Cincy
06-03-2004, 06:30 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote mike_in_iowa:</font><hr>......Hmmmm Sell real estate and either from DM or Lincoln. Do I know you and do you want to play some?

mike <hr /></blockquote>

C'mon Mike, the guy said he was broke /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

frankbullett
06-03-2004, 09:59 AM
I think I had better get a flat and true table installed correctly and practice a little first, as much as I might enjoy watching you run the table. Also, I think I'm considered a dinasour as I still like straight pool. But, your right, there is an old saying that salepeople are the easiest to sell. I guess I proved that true. Can't turn the clock back but am here now-see my question regarding deflection and new cue choice. It seems everyone has the best product construction. Any experience with inside pool or az billiards sales or anyone else. Muellers had their chance at me. My guess is most internet or mail order sales sites will meet competitors prices if asked the question.

highsea
06-03-2004, 01:32 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote frankbullett:</font><hr>-see my question regarding deflection and new cue choice.<hr /></blockquote>

Your question will get you countless opinions. I might as well start it off. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Production cues:
Don't like moochi. low quality finish,whippy, warpy,gaudy(IMO).
Think predator's are way overpriced.
Like McDermott.
Like Joss.

Always best to try as many different cues as you can before you buy. I like a stiff hit, you may not.

Think the deflection issue is overblown. But it sells predator shafts like crazy.

-CM

Big_Jon
06-03-2004, 06:07 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote highsea:</font><hr>
Don't like moochi. low quality finish,whippy, warpy,gaudy(IMO).
<hr /></blockquote>

I agree there, but some design's are ok, but most make you jump when you see them, but so does Bob Moochi...

[ QUOTE ]
highsea
Think predator's are way overpriced.
Think the deflection issue is overblown. But it sells predator shafts like crazy.

-CM <hr /></blockquote>
Yes, they are overpriced...
Yes, the deflection thing is a joke, people played pool before the predator shaft, (some people couldn't believe that.) I wish i had come up with the idea of a bored hole and thiner softer ferrule, then i'd be sitting pretty lol...

Thanks,

Jon

Did anybody else notice that when the whole pred/deflection thing died off (along with sales, i'd imagine) they come out with a new shaft... they are probably sitting on half a dozen shaft tapers/designs, just waiting for sales to die again...