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eg8r
06-03-2004, 09:08 AM
Last night, my wife and I were getting dinner ready when the doorbell rang. I answered the door and there standing in front of me was a man whom appeared to be foreign. He starts by telling me that he is not there to sell me anything but rather he has a petition and would like my signature. So, I am curious as to what the petition is about and I ask. He tells me they are gathering signatures from people who are against job outsourcing overseas. Well, I became a bit curious and asked why he was worried about this, and his reply was, "Don't you want more Americans to keep their jobs?". I assured him I did, and I asked him if he was an American citizen. He is not, but rather he is here on a working visa. This struck me as a bit odd that a foreigner is in my neighborhood getting paid, taking a job from a good hard working American, gathering signatures. I asked him about it and he shrugged it off as he did not understand my point. So, I asked the guy if he also had a petition for me to sign that would be against foreigners finding work in America. Once again, he did not understand what that mattered. I also, asked him, if he had any kinds of statistics on job in-sourcing from other countries coming here. Once again, he did not understand why I was asking these questions.

I told the guy, that until he knew a little more about what he was doing I was not comfortable with signing his petition. He was a bit upset and asked again, why I asked those questions, "Do I think people cannot come here and work just like Americans?". I told him yes I think it is perfectly fine for people to come to America for work, however, if I was so upset at the jobs being sent out, I would at least be equally upset at the jobs being lost here, to foreigners. He still did not understand.

It was quite an enjoyable conversation for me, but I don't think he was happy when he left. I just don't understand what was so complicated for him to understand the irony of him (a foreigner), getting paid to do a job a US citizen could certainly do, gathering signatures for a petition to keep jobs in America. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif What is so hard to understand.

When will the news report how many jobs have come into the US from other countries? Just how many jobs have been brought into the US from the international car industry alone? 10's of thousands? How many people work at Honda's manufacturing plant in Ohio? How about the BMW manufacturing plants? How about Siemens and CHEP? These are all very large foreign corporations doing business here in the US employing US citizens, does this not offset a good deal of the outsourcing? It seems like the majority of the people against out-sourcing are completely ignoring the fact that we are bringing in jobs from other countries. They are also completely ignoring the fact that American employees are now working more efficiently and in turn they are more productive. These people think a company is there to provide jobs, WRONG, the company is there to make money, otherwise there would be no reason.

eg8r

catscradle
06-03-2004, 09:43 AM
There is fair outsourcing of jobs and unfair outsourcing of jobs. When jobs are dumped in countries where the workers have no protection it is unfair. It would be one thing if the money was coming out of an American worker's pocket and going into a foreign workers pocket, but that isn't what happens the money gets pilfered between the American worker and the foreign worker. I hold nothing against the foreign worker persay, but big business sucks and is using the foreign workers as virtual scabs.
"The rich get richer and the poor get poorer". Just watch, this country is going to get more and more divided economically and the "middle class" will disappear. The workers of the rest of the world aren't coming up we're sliding down to them.
And before you jump to any conclusions I am not and never have been a member of any union.
C'est la guerre.

mred477
06-03-2004, 10:25 AM
Just as with everything else, outsourcing is dependent upon the market. This is why it is asinine for John Kerry to say in the same speech that he'll slow outsourcing while raising the minimum wage. The two are not mutually exclusive and actually have a lot to do with each other.

Outsourcing to other countries where "big corporations take advantage of poor people" is directly related to the fact that there is no cheap labor in the US today (except for illegal aliens). Case studies show that US presence in developing countries helps, even if it's at a very very low wage (see Hong Kong and Taiwan).

The truth of it is, many Americans would scoff at doing some of these jobs, even at the minimum wage. In addition, when you prevent outsourcing, you lower company profits and that reduces hiring in other areas. The real problem is that the American worker wants to be indispensable without having to work for the experience and qualifications to be just that. Why shouldn't someone with the same qualifications in India get a computer programming job that will cost 4 times more for an American to do? JMHO

Will

eg8r
06-03-2004, 10:48 AM
[ QUOTE ]
When jobs are dumped in countries where the workers have no protection it is unfair.<hr /></blockquote> I wonder what the response would be if you asked those workers if it is unfair that they finally have a job and are now able to provide for their family.

[ QUOTE ]
It would be one thing if the money was coming out of an American worker's pocket and going into a foreign workers pocket, but that isn't what happens the money gets pilfered between the American worker and the foreign worker. <hr /></blockquote> I don't understand what you are trying to say? They both sounded the same.

[ QUOTE ]
"The rich get richer and the poor get poorer". Just watch, this country is going to get more and more divided economically and the "middle class" will disappear. <hr /></blockquote> I believe as far as this thread is concerned your quote above to does make sense. You are trying to compare business with individual and they are not the same. There is plenty of research out there to prove what you are saying but as far as this thread is concerned I don't think it is relevant.

[ QUOTE ]
And before you jump to any conclusions I am not and never have been a member of any union.
C'est la guerre.
<hr /></blockquote> I have never been part of a union either. Does this matter since we have somewhat conflicting views?

Like the majority of the media, you failed to mention all the jobs coming into the US from foreign countries.

eg8r

Wally_in_Cincy
06-03-2004, 11:31 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr>
.....When will the news report how many jobs have come into the US from other countries? Just how many jobs have been brought into the US from the international car industry alone? 10's of thousands? How many people work at Honda's manufacturing plant in Ohio? How about the BMW manufacturing plants? How about Siemens and CHEP? These are all very large foreign corporations doing business here in the US employing US citizens, does this not offset a good deal of the outsourcing?....

<hr /></blockquote>

I don't have documentation but I have it on good authority that more Americans are employed here by foreign companies than there are foreigners are employed overseas by American companies.

Wally_in_Cincy
06-03-2004, 11:32 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote catscradle:</font><hr> ...the "middle class" will disappear....<hr /></blockquote>

No it won't. I wouldn't lose any sleep over that.

highsea
06-03-2004, 11:56 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr>I asked him if he was an American citizen. He is not, but rather he is here on a working visa.
eg8r<hr /></blockquote>
I'm curious what country this guy was from. Work visas are not supposed to be issued unless the employer cannot fill the position with a US citizen.

A friend of mine owns several gillnetters in Alaska, and he cannot bring in workers from Mexico or Central America to work his boats.

Likewise, I cannot get a work visa for Mexico or Costa Rica to work on a fishing boat that is based in those countries.

-CM

eg8r
06-03-2004, 12:25 PM
The gentleman's regular job is how he uses his work visa and this petition thing was a sort of on-the-side type thing. Anyways, he is from Israel, and he works for an Israeli company that has a joint venture with a US company. He is able to come to the US and work here (for his company in a JV with a US company) for 1 year.

eg8r

eg8r
06-03-2004, 12:27 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I don't have documentation but I have it on good authority that more Americans are employed here by foreign companies than there are foreigners are employed overseas by American companies. <hr /></blockquote> The next time you see out-sourcing as a hot topic in the news, let us know if they pass on the information you have. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r

highsea
06-03-2004, 01:09 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> The gentleman's regular job is how he uses his work visa and this petition thing was a sort of on-the-side type thing. Anyways, he is from Israel, and he works for an Israeli company that has a joint venture with a US company. He is able to come to the US and work here (for his company in a JV with a US company) for 1 year.

eg8r <hr /></blockquote>

Then I would say he is violating the terms of his work visa, if he is using it to work in a different job than the one it was issued for.

-CM

eg8r
06-03-2004, 01:56 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Then I would say he is violating the terms of his work visa, if he is using it to work in a different job than the one it was issued for. <hr /></blockquote> Quite possibly, but I don't think it bothers me enough to try and track him down. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r

Wally_in_Cincy
06-03-2004, 02:01 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote highsea:</font><hr> ... I would say he is violating the terms of his work visa, if he is using it to work in a different job than the one it was issued for.

-CM <hr /></blockquote>

CM,

I was shocked, absolutely shocked, to find out that the Latino guys I see in the deli in the morning apparently have no visas at all. /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Wally_in_Cincy
06-03-2004, 02:03 PM
Can you imagine the screaming and bitching by the German workers when they found out BMW was building a plant in South Carolina? /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r
06-03-2004, 02:43 PM
/ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif It must have been just unbearable. I wonder if it has poisoned their media like it is trying to here.

eg8r

Qtec
06-04-2004, 08:31 AM
HaHaHaHa.
Boy,did he come to the wrong house or what! LOL

I,m sure he would have had more success if it had been a,
"Impeach Kerry[ just in case he gets elected] petition". /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Q /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

eg8r
06-04-2004, 12:57 PM
LOL.

eg8r