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highsea
06-04-2004, 11:21 AM
What is the best way to press a tip before installing it? Also, what do you look for when picking them out of the box? i.e., I usually pick the thinner ones, on the theory that they are pressed a little more.

I use LePro's, but it takes some playing before they get nice and compressed to where I like them. Then I don't want to change them out when they get way down, because it takes so long to get them worked in.

So, anyway, I want to try pressing one before I put it on next time.

I will probably switch back to triangles, but I want to use up my LePros first. Don't want to mess with layered tips, because I like to do them myself, and don't have the tools to do a layered tip.

-CM

Cueless Joey
06-04-2004, 11:23 AM
Use a vise or vise-grip.
Make sure you have flat plates on each side of the tip.

Rod
06-04-2004, 11:32 AM
Yep, best way I know of.

highsea
06-04-2004, 11:33 AM
Thanks, Joey,
How long do you leave it in the vise, and how hard should you squeeze it?

-CM

Popcorn
06-04-2004, 11:53 AM
what are you actually trying to accomplish? Just take some of the spreading out, or make it harder? I have a little concave piece that keeps the shape of the tip so it compresses evenly. If you just squeeze it flat I think the center will compress too much. Here is a trick you may want to try. Give the it a quick dip in ammonia before pressing. It will harden the tip as it dries. It has a reaction with, I think it is called "Tannin" in the leather to harden it. You can even give a little treatment to a tip while it is on the cue. A little wipe of ammonia will harden a tip that wants to keep spreading. I learned this trick from a guy that made gun holsters, it is how he makes them keep their shape. They are fitted around a form and treated with ammonia. It is funny, he sells the stuff as a leather treatment. I was in the back of his shop and there was a bunch of little bottles that he fills with ammonia and get like $4.95 for it. I think Tiger sells the same thing as a leather treatment. I smelled some of it one time and it seemed to just be ammonia.

sigep1967
06-04-2004, 11:55 AM
Why do you think you need special tools for the layered tips? I did my Talismens myself and had no problems. Just used an exacto knife some sand paper and a shaper they came out great.

highsea
06-04-2004, 12:36 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> what are you actually trying to accomplish? Just take some of the spreading out, or make it harder?<hr /></blockquote>
Popcorn,
Both, hopefully. I have a 5/8" carbide ball-nose burr. My plan is to take a piece of aluminum flat stock and make a divot in it to set the tip in before I put it in the vise, so it compresses evenly.

I don't want to just make the center harder, I want to compress the whole tip. I'm hoping this will reduce the mushrooming and the flattening in the center. I like the way they play when they get work hardened, so I want to speed up the process a little. I don't want it so hard it doesn't hold chalk.

I will try the ammonia, that sounds like a good trick.

Thanks,
-CM

highsea
06-04-2004, 12:46 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote sigep1967:</font><hr> Why do you think you need special tools for the layered tips? I did my Talismens myself and had no problems. Just used an exacto knife some sand paper and a shaper they came out great. <hr /></blockquote>
I use one of those "Little Shavers" to trim the edges. I was concerned it would cause a problem with a layered tip.

I will pick up a Talisman to try out when I buy my next batch of tips, but I want to use up what I have first. The guy I get my tips from has a lathe, and I think I will have him do the Talisman, just to be sure it gets done right.

If I like the way it plays, I may tackle them myself.

-CM

SpiderMan
06-08-2004, 09:43 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote highsea:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> what are you actually trying to accomplish? Just take some of the spreading out, or make it harder?<hr /></blockquote>
I have a 5/8" carbide ball-nose burr. My plan is to take a piece of aluminum flat stock and make a divot in it to set the tip in before I put it in the vise, so it compresses evenly.

I don't want to just make the center harder, I want to compress the whole tip. I'm hoping this will reduce the mushrooming and the flattening in the center. I like the way they play when they get work hardened, so I want to speed up the process a little. I don't want it so hard it doesn't hold chalk.
<hr /></blockquote>

For your purpose, I'd compress it between two flat plates (such as vise jaws) so that the center is compressed more. The center will be compressed more because the plates will mainly compress the existing crown on the pre-shaped tip.

Then, when you install and shape, the new crown will be the most dense part of the tip. That will tend to make it less likely to lose it's crown during play. Having it extra hard in the center shouldn't matter for chalking and miscues, as you aren't likely to miscue when hitting center ball anyway.

SpiderMan

Eric.
06-08-2004, 10:04 AM
Hey Marty,

Just to add to what you suggested, I find it better to cut the tip down to your "desired installed height" before you compress it. I like my tips cut down fairly low. It seems to hit more consistantly, with less mushrooming.


Eric

Chopstick
06-09-2004, 08:58 AM
I just did the ball bearing trick to mine. I took a Sears C-clamp and a ball bearing and centered the bearing on the crown. I left it clamped until the indentation didn't rise when I released it. Then I shaped it with my Official Spiderman secret weapon shaping tools (IMO the best that were ever made). It plays great and holds it's shape really well.

Chris Cass
06-09-2004, 09:26 AM
Hi Highseas,

I've heard that you should soak them in milk then put them while wet in a vice. I've soaked tips in clear coat auto finish 24 hrs after the vice and sanding the backs first.


I haven't tried the milk thing and now, the ammonia thing is all new to me. The smaller tips of LaPro are harder but when sanding the backs will tell you. It's tough to get off the coating on the harder tips and also keep aware of the freying aspects of sanding the backs. If the tip starts freying chances are it's a soft one. If it just omits mainly dust in small particles, it's most likely a hard one.

Barry says there's like 18 hardnesses to LaPros alone. This I got from Barbara. I've been going tip mad for yrs now but I reverted back to LaPro' Go figure, I only shot with them for 20 yrs or more and didn't know the difference between them other than slight care. Mushrooming is terrible but the hit is still there. Some soft I can't stand but when you get a good one. You stick with it. LaPro' seem to hit better when they get broke in. Or, is it when the tip gets used to by you?

Regards,

C.C.

Popcorn
06-09-2004, 11:18 AM
Quote

"Barry says there's like 18 hardnesses to LaPros alone."

He must have taken a few boxes and after doing some tests came up with 18 different harnesses in his sampling. If he took tips off cues that had been played with for a while he would probably get different reading from when the tips were first installed. I think there can be a lot of guess work there. It just made me laugh a little, he was so specific with the number 18, it just sounded funny. Years ago players would mess with their tips as they used them. Some would take a file to them rolling the tip to soften it a little the tap it down. Or Tap it down first to harden it a little if they did not like the feel. Today players seem to think the tip will stay perfect automatically, (although the layered tips come close ). Dressing your tip seems to be a lost art. There was always a guy in the room that was a master at it and would work on your tip if you didn't know how. I replace tips for guys that may be spreading a little over the ferrule and out of shape that if it were me, I would shape it up and play with it. It is still a good tip. I don't think many of them do a thing to it once it is put on.

SpiderMan
06-09-2004, 04:19 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Eric.:</font><hr> Hey Marty,

Just to add to what you suggested, I find it better to cut the tip down to your "desired installed height" before you compress it. I like my tips cut down fairly low. It seems to hit more consistantly, with less mushrooming.
Eric <hr /></blockquote>

Eric,

If you cut it to final height first, doesn't it get a little shorter after compression? Or are we talking only a slight amount of pressure?

SpiderMan

SpiderMan
06-09-2004, 04:28 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> Quote

"Barry says there's like 18 hardnesses to LaPros alone."

He must have taken a few boxes and after doing some tests came up with 18 different harnesses in his sampling. If he took tips off cues that had been played with for a while he would probably get different reading from when the tips were first installed. I think there can be a lot of guess work there. It just made me laugh a little, he was so specific with the number 18, it just sounded funny. Years ago players would mess with their tips as they used them. Some would take a file to them rolling the tip to soften it a little the tap it down. Or Tap it down first to harden it a little if they did not like the feel. Today players seem to think the tip will stay perfect automatically, (although the layered tips come close ). Dressing your tip seems to be a lost art. There was always a guy in the room that was a master at it and would work on your tip if you didn't know how. I replace tips for guys that may be spreading a little over the ferrule and out of shape that if it were me, I would shape it up and play with it. It is still a good tip. I don't think many of them do a thing to it once it is put on. <hr /></blockquote>

A good local player uses Moori Mediums. When one of them gets about half worn down, and maybe a little flat on the crown, he hands it to me for replacement and switches to his other shaft (also a Moori M).

The "worn" tip is one I would re-shape and use for months, and I've told him so, but he says it's worth it to him because he loves the look and feel of a fresh new tip and polished shaft. I've stopped arguing, it's his money and he seems to have plenty for these little pleasures /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

SpiderMan

Eric.
06-09-2004, 04:31 PM
I cut it to a certain height, compress it, then shape it after it's installed. My tip sidewall(from top of ferrule to start of tip crown) is about the thickness of a nickel. On a Triangle tip, I cut about 1/3 of the tip off to start.


Eric

Chris Cass
06-09-2004, 09:18 PM
Hi Popcorn,

Barbara told me Barry uses the bite test and he has only 18 teeth. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Regards,

C.C.~~ I see your point buddy. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif