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Sid_Vicious
06-12-2004, 09:26 AM
There's this guy locally, who is absolutely the luckiest 9-ball player I've seen, and he has maintained this luck for all of time I've played him. I don't know if it's the fact that he is convinced he's lucky or if it's an unnatural talent, but he's good enough at it that most everyone else in his circle makes him call the 9. I personally am dazzled at his uncanny ability to whack at seemingly hail marys and get a roll, the nine a bunch of the times. I also know that this guy(young IMO) has a very limited tenure with the game of pool, 4 years tops, so it's not like I've found a sleeper just waiting to perform. WTF is it with this dude? Are some people just natural at busting clusters and seeing outragous down table action or what???sid~~~fun to play the guy...laughs even at his own luck, and I find that personality intertaining enough to toss him winnings when it happens

ras314
06-12-2004, 10:11 AM
Every time I get one the those gosh awful lucked in 9 balls I holler out PURE SKILL. Heck the game is supposed to be fun, don't know why that irritates some people.

Back when I thought I could play pool I worked hard at making unobvious shots and calling it luck. It would sometimes backfire giving the uneducated the idea you could always make ridiculous shots.

A note on luck and probability, do you ever just throw out three or four balls on the table? Interesting how many times one or more will find a pocket.

BTW, how did your young student turn out?

Harold Acosta
06-12-2004, 10:16 AM
Sid:

Maybe we can match this guy with one of our players in Puerto Rico. Besides being a top notch player, and a great banker and kicker, the Pool Gods are almost always with him.

Sometimes there is no way to beat him but with a stick (or a bat for that matter). It's just truly amazing.

We have come to the conclusion that the many years of practice and play has somehow factored-in his "apparent luck." People no longer frown at this factor. They just keep themselves seated until the cueball has come to a full stop. Then and only then, will they stand up to take their turn.

The good thing about this is that he knows about his luck, smiles about it, and is a pretty good helluva guy.

He just finished 9th in the Florida Open beating Corey Deuel and losing to Tommy Kennedy and Charlie Williams for a $600 prize.

Sid_Vicious
06-12-2004, 10:39 AM
"BTW, how did your young student turn out?"

She was to much of a kid, wanted to "play" around too much and she resisted even the first up-and-down drill I gave her for stroke purity , saying she couldn't do it, "It hurts my arm." I caught her performing the execution perfectly moments later whacking balls around when I wasn't working with her, complimented her bigtime, and yet she returned to the stubborn attitude that she couldn't do it as a drill. I decided then that I couldn't work with that type of student and basically called it quits before I became testy over the whole situation. My take is that if someone is THAT way, not taking the fundamentals seriously from the git-go, that they need to channel their interests elsewhere, and save both their time, and me my time. Shame, but that's the way it unfolded. I'm working with her grandmother from time to time on her game, and there's much more promise with her. I still learn more myself than those I teach, my game almost immediately kicks up a couple of notches.

Someday I will find another youngster who is genuinely ready to accept advice and work, and I'll return to this endeavor. I was having a lot of fun, and could have(IMO) made a hellova lot of difference in this younster's latter years being that she would have had proper fundamentals to begin with, eliminating the adopted bad habits most of us grew into early in life. I know it would have made me far better than I am today if I'd had somebody with an interest in my game had shown me the right way to hold a cue and stroke a ball...sid~~~thinks, oh well, if an eleven year fights you from the start, you have almost no chance of getting through at all

dg-in-centralpa
06-12-2004, 01:10 PM
Sid - we have a couple guys in the one 8 ball league I play in. They are shotmakers only and couldn't play position if their life depended on it, yet they always seem to get position. These guys are dangerous to play. I would rather play a top notch shooter in the league than a shotmaker.

DG - can't wait until next season for pool league

Sid_Vicious
06-12-2004, 01:23 PM
There's one other guy in our area, a bar player who was once on my team, and I am going to have to find him again to play this guy I posted about. These two luckmasters have made solid A players smile and shake their heads, and some of these A players never smile for the most part. You gotta love those simple, yet happy go lucky, lucky being the operative word, players. It's the damdest thing I ever saw, whether it be that they make the shot or whether they land safe. I keep playing the guy straight-up because it's so much fun just watching!!!sid

Troy
06-12-2004, 01:45 PM
I'm guessing that the guy has more going for him than just "luck".
Luck generally balances out and you can't always depend on it.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Sid_Vicious:</font><hr> There's this guy locally, who is absolutely the luckiest 9-ball player I've seen, and he has maintained this luck for all of time I've played him. I don't know if it's the fact that he is convinced he's lucky or if it's an unnatural talent, but he's good enough at it that most everyone else in his circle makes him call the 9. I personally am dazzled at his uncanny ability to whack at seemingly hail marys and get a roll, the nine a bunch of the times. I also know that this guy(young IMO) has a very limited tenure with the game of pool, 4 years tops, so it's not like I've found a sleeper just waiting to perform. WTF is it with this dude? Are some people just natural at busting clusters and seeing outragous down table action or what???sid~~~fun to play the guy...laughs even at his own luck, and I find that personality intertaining enough to toss him winnings when it happens <hr /></blockquote>

Sid_Vicious
06-12-2004, 01:58 PM
I gotta admit, he's deadly with banks as well, those banks where you leave someone supposedly safe, short rail to short rail, saying, "Well if he makes this he deserves to win." Key here is probably that he's not doubting his abilities, and it works. Also, his kicking game far exceeds mine, which ain't hard to do. It just amazes me that his game works as well since he's just picked the game up, and with no formal instruction..sid

Cane
06-12-2004, 04:47 PM
Sid,

Every pool room has a couple of those guys. I have one here, who is also one of my students, the only difference is that he has been playing for 9 years and has some knowledge outside of just basics. However, If I leave him safe, he will kick as hard as he can into a target ball and about half the time, he'll make something. The only difference is that he admits to luck. His philosophy is that if you hit it hard and get enough balls rolling then 50% of the time you'll make a shot and break up a cluster... the other 50% of the time you'll miss and break up the cluster... and on top of that, if there are more than 4 or 5 balls left on the table, you have at least half a chance of leaving your opponent safe or a tough shot. Of course, when he does miss these and leaves a shot, it's all over, but if he makes a shot and gives himself a shot on the next ball, then he's out.

How to get these guys??? Easy, get them in a game of one pocket and watch them fall. It only takes getting beat 8-1 or 8-2 a couple of times for them to figure out that banging an object ball and spreading the stack is NOT a good thing in One Pocket.

I guess that's why I prefer One Pocket, Bank Pool and 14.1 over all other pocket billiards games... Skill, rather than luck, will prevail in these games. 9-Ball can be played as a game of skill, but someone who bangs hard at their shots and is willing to let the cue ball fly will end up "sometimes" having better luck in it than those that play pure shotmaking and position. Take them away from 9 ball and get them in a skills based game and the luck does them no good... matter of fact, if they start hammering kicks and banks, their good luck will suddenly turn into bad luck and probably turn out to be your good fortune.

Later,
Bob

dg-in-centralpa
06-12-2004, 04:57 PM
Like you said, "They are fun to watch." A couple shotmakers here will run 5-6 balls with no position miss the next shot and leave a perfect safe and act as if they planned it. We just smile and shake our heads.

DG - they are definitely fun to watch

Cane
06-12-2004, 05:29 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dg-in-centralpa:</font><hr> Like you said, "They are fun to watch." A couple shotmakers here will run 5-6 balls with no position miss the next shot and leave a perfect safe and act as if they planned it. We just smile and shake our heads. <hr /></blockquote>

Well said. At least the guy I'm talking about will also shake his head and smile when he does something like a 3 rail kick and drill a ball center pocket... he'll just grin, look up and say "Well, even a blind hog can find an acorn every once in awhile."

Later,
Bob

dr_billiards
06-12-2004, 05:41 PM
I have broken 3 sticks over players luck shots...( years ago before I learned the art of composure /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif) There is one guy who shoots then takes his next shot.Never plays shape, and always seems to win. One time he shot and made six balls!! It is just one of those things that make pool fun.
Doc B /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Troy
06-12-2004, 05:49 PM
My favorite is "Even a blind chicken can find a peck of corm once in a while".....
/ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cane:</font><hr>"Well, even a blind hog can find an acorn every once in awhile."
<hr /></blockquote>

nhp
06-12-2004, 07:49 PM
I saw my friend (who barely knows how to hold a cue) run out from the 4-9 balls with all luck shots...he'd miss the pocket by a foot and bank the ball a few rails in another hole, or he'd hit the edge of a side pocket and have it fire across the table in another hole. We had a good laugh. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Popcorn
06-12-2004, 09:00 PM
Who cares if the guy gets a little lucky, it won't change the out come. Break a cue over luck?

Keith Talent
06-12-2004, 09:48 PM
I don't believe anybody's likely to luck in enough shots to make a difference in most games ... but I've been informally testing a theory that unless you're up against an A player, it might be downright foolish to attempt anything but an easy safety in 9 ball ... kind of like the way most people approach bank shots in that game.

Think about it ... if you're firing away with no thought of the next ball, how often would you expect to get a reasonable shot on it? So why not, if an easy safety isn't available, just wing it on a tough shot instead of playing a less-than-certain safety, which so often leads to a pathetic sellout? Odds are, at least early in the game, you'll leave the other guy safe if you miss.

My sense is that, in 9 ball at least, the pool gods tend to smile more often on the gutsy shot than the chicken$hit shot. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Chris Cass
06-12-2004, 11:16 PM
Hi Sid,

The better one gets the less luck one see,s. That's one masin reason why an A player doesn't want to play anyone less that caliber. Some people are just plain lucky but one thing you can count on is that luck will never last. If you show one ounce of dismay you'll see more and more of it. What I do is move the 9 ball up and away from any possible chance of anyone getting a good wack at it.

Regards,

C.C.

Popcorn
06-13-2004, 10:18 AM
Quote
"My sense is that, in 9 ball at least, the pool gods tend to smile more often on the gutsy shot than the chicken$hit shot."

9-ball lends it's self to a certain style of free wheel play, it is a very loose game. It does not require perfect play to run out. In fact, trying to play perfect in 9-ball can hurt you because you may be over complicating the game. What looks like a lucky roll may in fact be nothing more then probability. Lets say you can't get by a ball to play a position. It may be just better to billiard into it correctly let it go where ever. as long as you make the shot and get a shot on the next ball. The probability is, nothing real bad will happen with the ball you had to hit and you will deal with it and still run out. Many old time straight pool players have problems with 9-ball in that they want to control everything, play perfect, never moving balls and so on. You want to play perfect to a degree, but not over complicate what is a pretty simple game, let the nature of the game work for you. You can miss position by three feet at times and still get out. Completely cinch a ball, taking no risks at all with the cue ball, (often trying to play an UN-playable position results in a miss), and then get back into position to run out.

Chris Cass
06-13-2004, 11:02 AM
Good response Popcorn,

I think you've just described the difference between the shot maker and the shooter. We have to be both in this game. I notice many great shot makers getting out a lot but the shooter will win in the long run. The shooter also must also have shot making skills too. Imho

This game says a lot about the guy or gal who plays it. Percentages, bump pool position, getting back in line, the longer bridge 8-10"s, take for instance this shot,

START(
%B[2\6%CW0E0%DC8X8%Ek9H0%FE2Z8%GE7Y3%HR6Y4%Ij3M2%Ph9Q 5%eC0a9

)END
http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/pooltable2.html

This guy I played yesterday in a tourney could have cut this ball in the corner pocket and went the 2 rails for position. He went with the odds in his mind to slam it cross corner and parlay into a 4 ball slam feast. Sure enough, he made one of the balls.

To me, I'd cut this everytime. I like the guarentee of my outcome. So, I do know what your talking about. He was rated a B player. He did get out and I asked him which ball was he playing? He told me all four, and was serious. I just looked at him and said, your a champion dude. He smiled.

Regards,

C.C.

ceebee
06-13-2004, 01:06 PM
Sid, I too have a local LUCKY PLAYER. In fact there are two of them. Neither one does well in a Ring Game (they are always out about half way). One can't play well with me for money (he's never won in a money matcg with me), but if we are playing for fun, this guy might knock one in from the Pool Table Light. The other guy always loses too, in the long run. He's always wanting to JACK the BET &amp; when we do jack it up.. he's done winning... I get in stroke &amp; he can't pocket a hanger &amp; get position on the next ball. But it's frustrating as hell to deal with a player that gets your goat.

Rod
06-13-2004, 03:56 PM
I'd bang into em, how could you miss? /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif You know if it was me playing nine ball, I'd probably miss if I did bank. If I was playing one hole and I was hooked for the balls to that pocket. I'd probably clear the pocket, except it was mine. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif I did get lucky today though, I woke up.

Rod

SpiderMan
06-14-2004, 09:18 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Keith Talent:</font><hr> I don't believe anybody's likely to luck in enough shots to make a difference in most games ... but I've been informally testing a theory that unless you're up against an A player, it might be downright foolish to attempt anything but an easy safety in 9 ball ... kind of like the way most people approach bank shots in that game.
<hr /></blockquote>

Do you "break safe", or do you spread 'em?

What if there's a cluster of five and one of them is the ball you must hit? There's no obvious "shot" but several balls "might" be on track for two or three rails. That may be a better percentage than breaking a full rack.

BTW, I'm not Sid's "lucky" opponent.

SpiderMan (world's unluckiest pool player: http://www.billiardsdigest.com/ccboard/showthreaded.php?Cat=&amp;Board=ccbboard&amp;Number=24161&amp; Forum=ccbboard&amp;Words=spiderman%20jacoby&amp;Match=And&amp; Searchpage=0&amp;Limit=25&amp;Old=allposts&amp;Main=24161&amp;Sear ch=true#Post24161 )

CarterCues
06-14-2004, 11:57 AM
Sounds like a guy I play 9-Ball with. He know's two types of position That end of the table and this end of the table.

Keith Talent
06-15-2004, 02:57 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr>
Do you "break safe", or do you spread 'em?

What if there's a cluster of five and one of them is the ball you must hit? There's no obvious "shot" but several balls "might" be on track for two or three rails. That may be a better percentage than breaking a full rack.

BTW, I'm not Sid's "lucky" opponent.

<hr /></blockquote>

Safe break? To the naked eye, my break might well resemble one! But if I actually TRIED to safe break, I'm sure I'd leave an easy 1-9 every time. No doubt I'd deserve it. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

But do you slam into clusters like that? I wouldn't unless I had a difficult kick. Hate to just hand it over ... probably easy to leave it safe in that case.

SpiderMan
06-15-2004, 06:35 PM
Actually, I don't prefer 9-ball, but if the case were a 5-ball cluster at the other end of the table, with no obvious shot to make or play safe, I think I'd prefer to slam them rather than just try to roll into them for a psuedo-safe. The former might at least make a ball and better my position, while the latter might leave an easy opportunity for my opponent to play a great safe. Obviously, if I think "I" have an opportunity at a good safe, the former does not apply.

SpiderMan