PDA

View Full Version : Waiting and waiting for a match



stickman
06-14-2004, 11:14 PM
You play continous matches. You get stronger as the matches go on. By the time you finish off the winners bracket you are in dead stroke. Now you have to wait for up to three hours or more waiting for the losers bracket winner to play the tournament final. What do you do?

Rod
06-14-2004, 11:38 PM
Ask the TD to keep the one loss side current. If it is except for the semi final, I just leave the building. I get some fresh air and relax a bit. A light snack is good for some. Go sit, or outside and talk to others if you like.

Tournaments are notorious for a lag on the one loss side. I always tried my best to keep it current. Start known slow players ASAP including at the beginning of a tournament.

Rod

Popcorn
06-15-2004, 12:25 AM
There is nothing you can do, the winners side plays fewer matches. Usually in smaller tournaments the winner of the lose side comes into the final having just played and won several matches in a row and the final is played right away. If it is a single match final, the winner of the losers side is a small favorite to win. If he has to beat the winner twice he is usually a favorite to win the first match anyway.

CarolNYC
06-15-2004, 03:27 AM
Hey Stickman,
Im assuming this is a one day tournament-besides what Rod said, I'd probably get on an unused table and pocket balls!
Carol

Chris Cass
06-15-2004, 06:33 AM
Hi Jim,

This is easy, just give me a call and we'll talk for awhile and kill some time. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif What I do is what Rod said. Take a break, leave the building and just relax. About an 1/2 hr before the match I'd do what Carol suggested. Hit some balls and work on your straight in shots from corner to corner. Then, take a washroom break 5min before the match and wash your face and get refreshed. Grab a cold one and bring a wet paper towel to have ready for your hands, just in case.

Depending on the difference in first place money and second. You could just take the second place money if it's not worth the wait. JAT

Regards,

C.C.

Mr Ingrate
06-15-2004, 07:34 AM
Rod,

Even if you keep the one-loss side current, it is still a good idea for a TD to play the winner's side matches before the loser's side. The loser of the winner's side match usually crosses over to the other end of the loser's bracket. You could run the 1st set of matches on the loser's side (L-1) before running the 1st set of matches on the winner's side (W-1); however, the loser in the last match of (W-1) goes to the 1st match of (L-2) which could hold up the loser's side bracket. If you play the winner's side first, this doesn't occur. Some TD's think getting the loser's side out of the way as early as possible is a good idea, but, as you can see, actually creates more of a chance for conflict.

RedHell
06-15-2004, 07:44 AM
Chris can you explain the wet paper towel for your hands. When I play, the last thing I want is wet hands ?!?!

stickman
06-15-2004, 08:31 AM
I went home and checked my blood pressure, then took my meds. I went over to a friends and killed some time, then sweated the last paring of the losers round. I should have hit some balls. I was tired and out of stroke. It was a good outing all the same. I annilated the big dog in the winners bracket, but he paid me back in the finals. If I had stayed in stroke, I don't think he could have beat me twice. It was a strong field, and I was happy to get second, but first would have been even better. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Barbara
06-15-2004, 08:36 AM
This is where some TDs need to learn how to pace the right and left sides of the chart.

Barbara~~~never had a hot seat wait more than an hour and a half...

Chris Cass
06-15-2004, 09:02 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote RedHell:</font><hr> Chris can you explain the wet paper towel for your hands. When I play, the last thing I want is wet hands ?!?! <hr /></blockquote>

Hi RedHell,

Oh yes of course. It's the greatest in a pool match. It's one of my greatest inventions. /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif Here's what I do. Before the match I'll get a couple sheets of paper towels from the bathroom and partially wet half of it. Unless, I have two, then I'll wet one totally.

When I'm in a mtch I really don't like to take a break from the table if it isn't neccessary. So, I'll use the wet or damp towel to calm myself and keep myself grounded in a match that can be rather tense. Uses:

1) wipe my hands down when they get warm or tacky.
2) wipe my inner wrists.
3) wipe my inside elbow creases.
4) wipe the shaft down if tacky and burnish.
5) lay it on the back of my neck, this is soooo relaxing.
6) wipe my neck, relaxing but since the major loss of weight I don't need this much.
7) gives myself a mini break from a tense match, mentally.
8) can revert focus from ones opponent also but, I don't do this.
9) hold on your forehead and temples for a calming effect.
10) though it on the table surface indicating you've had enough and I've never done that but I can see it working. LOL

The big tourneys give you water pitchers and provide towels. I've poored my water to drink and dunk half my towel in there and ring it out damp. Works great though. If you seen the Open last yr or the Mosconi Cup? JJ does this quite often too. I'm sure part of the towel is damp and he needs these mini vacations too. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Been doing it for yrs and it works great.

Regards,

C.C.~~ /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Tom_In_Cincy
06-15-2004, 09:18 AM
This is one of my biggest gripes about tournament play. When I played in tournaments and was fortunate enough to win the Winners side.... WAIT... WAIT and then WAIT again.. and I always seemed to play cold when I finally did play the final match(es).

No matter what I did, it wasn't close to what the winner of the One Loss side had just finished.

To avoid this in the tournaments I run, I have the final 4 players on the Winners side start their matches just after the final 4 on the One loss side. The two losers on the Winners side will be playing the two winners on the One Loss side almost immediately.

The Finals of the winners side only start their match when the two finalist (the winner of this match will face the loser of the Hot Seat Match) of the one loss side are determined.

The only time there may be a long wait is during the middle rounds of the tournament. NOT the later rounds. This takes into account slow players that have screw up the flow of a bracket.

In other words, I try to eliminate as much 'waiting' as possible, by making sure the players on the One Loss side get their matches completed first. There are alomst twice as many matches on the One Loss side compared to the Winners side in Double Elimination.

The Hot Seat Winner will only have to wait for the match for the final of the One Loss side. This should be the the minimum time to wait.

It's been working out rather well and the players seem to appreciate the minimum 'wait' in the later part of the tournament.

RedHell
06-15-2004, 09:42 AM
OK thanks for the trick, it makes sens. I can see the relaxing effect of wiping your neck, temples, forhead and face...

Thing is at my level, you don't get that long a break /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Troy
06-15-2004, 09:43 AM
I agree Tom.... But...
A few years ago I ran into a room owner who insisted that I "hurry and get those matches started". He flat would NOT understand.

Barbara
06-15-2004, 09:53 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Tom_In_Cincy:</font><hr>
To avoid this in the tournaments I run, I have the final 4 players on the Winners side start their matches just after the final 4 on the One loss side. The two losers on the Winners side will be playing the two winners on the One Loss side almost immediately.

The Finals of the winners side only start their match when the two finalist (the winner of this match will face the loser of the Hot Seat Match) of the one loss side are determined.


In other words, I try to eliminate as much 'waiting' as possible, by making sure the players on the One Loss side get their matches completed first. There are alomst twice as many matches on the One Loss side compared to the Winners side in Double Elimination.

The Hot Seat Winner will only have to wait for the match for the final of the One Loss side. This should be the the minimum time to wait.

It's been working out rather well and the players seem to appreciate the minimum 'wait' in the later part of the tournament. <hr /></blockquote>

Tom,

This is what I do when I bring back the final 8 on the second day. If I'm bringing back the final 6, I'll start the 4 on the left side of the chart one hour before starting the hot seat match.

Of course, if your tour is lousy with snooker players, that strategy will backfire on you. Val Finnie and Kelly Fisher still had to wait for Liz and Erin to finish their match as they only took 45 minutes to complete their 7-5 match.

Barbara~~~always learning...

Rod
06-15-2004, 10:17 AM
CC, great minds think alike! /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif I also take a washroom break but only hit balls for about 15 minutes. Then I get set up and ready to go. When their match is over then I go get a cold one. Almost always the winner of that match takes a short break, bathroom or something. If not then they might wait a couple of minutes on me. lol

If there is little difference in the money and late a split is in order. Sometimes in local small ones the TD asks if were going to split. That is before or during the match you need to win to get there. lol

Rod

Rod
06-15-2004, 10:23 AM
Yes I know Dave but what I meant is close to what Tom suggested. They wait during the tournament. If someone wants to play without the wait I'll let them. I explain however, you can wait now or wait later.

Rod

Mr Ingrate
06-15-2004, 11:22 AM
Yep,

I agree. When your down to the last few it is always good to hold off the winner's side so they don't cool off too badly. In my case, the very odd time I'm in the hot seat, I need the rest. I'm just getting too old.

Tom_In_Cincy
06-15-2004, 12:29 PM
Barbara,

Oh, the luxury of a two day tournament. Everyone knows when and where they have to be. What more can these player ask for? And BTW, they also have a consistant and wonderful TD.

My tournaments are mostly one day events. The largest has been a 54 player event DE, started at 1pm on a Sunday. It was over at 1030pm. I think that is pretty fast.

Race to 6 on the winner side, Race to 4 on the one loss side. True DE in the finals.

Tom_In_Cincy
06-15-2004, 12:32 PM
Dealing with stubborness is one of the most difficult problems with anyone.

I listen to everyone, but only HEAR a few. When the room owner starts to interfere with the tournament, I have to listen, but that doesn't mean I hear.

Fortunately for me, I have a good room owner that does understand my methods and 'madnesses' /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Rod
06-15-2004, 12:56 PM
I know the feeling Dave. Dem bones, dem bones, -- dem dry bones. lol

Barbara
06-15-2004, 01:07 PM
Wow Tom! A 54-player field under 11 hours? Well, that's the speed of the guys for ya. Plus, we're races to 7 on both sides of the chart.

We start early on Saturday (11 am) so we can finish up around 7 pm that night. The room owners don't want to sacrifice their nighttime business to us.

Except for Mika's room in PA. They're interested in holding a Q for us this year but the RO asked me if we could start around 1 pm. I explained to her that we usually wrap up around 7 pm and she basically wanted us playing at night so as to attract an audience. I said it was fine with me - the later I sleep in on Saturday, the better off I am! LOL!

Barbara

9 Ball Girl
06-15-2004, 01:13 PM
Mika's room was nice. I played there for about 4 hours and there's plenty of room between tables. Very nice. They didn't have any food so it was takeout pizza for everybody.

Rod
06-15-2004, 01:26 PM
Tom,

I've done a 32 team scotch event in the same exact time. It was a record for me. When I first started they could last till 1am. It might not seem so fast but scotch can take a long time. Some places here go till 3 in the morning for a same event.

Rod

SPetty
06-15-2004, 02:50 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Tom_In_Cincy:</font><hr> When I played in tournaments and was fortunate enough to win the Winners side.... WAIT... WAIT and then WAIT again.. and I always seemed to play cold when I finally did play the final match(es).

No matter what I did, it wasn't close to what the winner of the One Loss side had just finished. <hr /></blockquote>Is there any credence to the idea that the player in the one loss side is really really tired now while you're fresh from resting, therefore giving you the advantage?

Tom_In_Cincy
06-15-2004, 03:04 PM
SPetty, very good point.

When I was younger, I would totally agree that there was an advantage to the Hot Seat winner having time to compose, rest, practice and just relax.

Now that I am not as young, going thru the one loss side is exhausting, physically and mentally. If I did win the one loss side, I would always ask for a break. At least 15 minutes to refresh myself.

Now I can see that there isn't that much of an advantage if you take away the disparity of the 'time to wait' on each bracket.

If I can control the 'wait time' between the brackets, and keep it to a minimum, most players are OK with this.

bluewolf
06-15-2004, 05:24 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote stickman:</font><hr> I annilated the big dog in the winners bracket, but he paid me back in the finals. If I had stayed in stroke, I don't think he could have beat me twice. It was a strong field, and I was happy to get second, but first would have been even better. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif <hr /></blockquote>

I have heard some great ideas about how to relax and reenergize during that lag time.

But, what I heard you saying is that you played better in each match, and then by the time you won the winners bracket you were in deadstroke. So, in my mind, the question is when you have to wait, how to get back into deadstroke, or how to keep it close enough to the edge of your mind, that you can flip back in when you get ready to play.

I have wondered about that part, myself.

Laura

Troy
06-15-2004, 07:52 PM
Oh yea Tom, Chuck is one of the better room owners.

Unfortunately, the room owner in my case was also my employer at the time.
He's the same guy who over-rode my decision during a 1-P tournament.
I posted that story a while ago.

Troy...~~~ Different room now... /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif much, much better.
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Tom_In_Cincy:</font><hr>
Fortunately for me, I have a good room owner that does understand my methods and 'madnesses' /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif <hr /></blockquote>

stickman
06-15-2004, 09:18 PM
I think a break would be okay to refresh, but when I'm in deadstroke it's best to keep on shooting. I should have found an empty table and found someone to play. Three hours is a long time to wait. I think that was the problem.

pooltchr
06-16-2004, 06:53 AM
When it gets down to the final matches, I always try to get the room owner to let me keep an extra table. This way, the player in the hot seat has the option to keep playing, relax, practice, or whatever. Unfortunately, someone is going to have some waiting time when you get down to the last 4 to 6 players. Like someone else said, I tell the guys on the winner's side, you can wait now or later, but someone is going to have some down time no matter how well you run it.
Steve

bluewolf
06-17-2004, 07:34 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote stickman:</font><hr> I think a break would be okay to refresh, but when I'm in deadstroke it's best to keep on shooting. I should have found an empty table and found someone to play. Three hours is a long time to wait. I think that was the problem. <hr /></blockquote>

Those are my thoughts about staying in deadstroke. Here is what has happened to me a few times in league play. I walk into the poolhall ready to play. I am focused, relaxed and am convinced that I will play my best. I am confident that win or lose, I will play excellent, my best play.

Then I have to wait until the fourth match or so which is three hours, typically. I am in the correct attitude and at match two, I start into the zone and it is too soon. I try to pull myself out just at the edge so that I can flip back in, but by the time I get to the table, I am no longer in that state. In our leagues there are no extra table, so about all I have figured is to walk around, stay hydrated, try to keep that focus and relaxation.

Once going into the zone before it is time, I have yet to figure out how to be able to flip back in nor how to keep myself from going in before my time to play. It is like I am watching someone else play, the pockets start looking like bread baskets, time slows down, all the sounds around go away. And other things associated with that state. I do 'uhoh' , but have not yet achieved the mental control to not do this. And then, sometimes, even if I can get back in,it is in game two or three, and that is not particularly desirable either.

What I call 'prezone' which is the attitude I walked in with is very desirable and I am satisfied with that attitude, but I very much identified with you getting out of deadstroke, which seems to have cost you the match.

Laura

Chris Cass
06-17-2004, 08:31 AM
Laura,

You can't control the zone. It's not a switch. It's something that's unexplainable of how you reach that state of mind. The only thing you can do is make the conditions right for the possibility of getting there.

What we know about the zone is, one has to be relaxed and comfortable with our surroundings and the situation or conditions of what were playing under, like in the hot seat, first match or second and so on.

When normally finding your in the zone. You find your relaxed, your comfortable with your surroundings, your focus seems cyrstal clear, your attitude is happy and negative thoughts, aren't present. Your not thinking of the score or much anything. It seems time, isn't a factor.

So many people try getting there and have a hard time doing it. Most can only try to calm themselves and let it happen. This is why Straight pool is so important to obtaining excellence in this game. Straight pool gets you in the zone more that any other games. It's not all about shooting all the shots even though, it does help tremendously. You have to make balls.

Rythm, is important. Well, knowing your rythm is. This rythm is what gets you there. It's that certain flow, that keeps your mind in timing with your body movements. That's why it's harder in 9 ball, 8 ball and the other games. The best you can do for yourself is to keep your body in good physical condition( well rested, nurished(sp)).

Keeping your mind refreshed is a big one. Breaking away from the environment mentally. Then only spend little time warming up shooting. Relaxed time shooting not trying to put 100% focus in the warm up. More or less stay loose, and relaxed. Making sure your straight shot is sharp and straight. Say from corner to corner shots.

I never put too much into the warm up. It can drain you of focus and you need to save it for the match. This stuff is hard for most in leagues or tournament play. In leagues you might not have a practice table to play on, like your case.

Most of the time, you've been up since 6 or 7am. Worked all day, ate a big dinner, entering a smoke filled environment with loud noises around. Then, wait forever to play one game then, wait again till it's your time up again. All these things drain you mentally and physically too.

Tournaments not much different. The situation Stickman descibes is tipical. Your waiting in the hot seat, nothing to do and you've put in many hrs to get there. This is where the long sessions praticing come into play. Playing under tough conditions like a 10 hr session can prepare you for tournament play. Just knowing how much it takes to get there after playing 8 hrs and keep shooting well. Depending on your pre-shot routine is one thing that very important. When your mind is off on it's own after a draining night. You can get through it with knowing it's set in place. I'm not disagreeing with you Laura but merely pointing out something that might help you see things in a different light. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Regards,

C.C.~~just my .02 /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif