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View Full Version : Cue ball in hand - fouls question.



woody_968
06-15-2004, 10:36 AM
When you have cueball in hand and are placing it on the table I know it is a foul if you touch an object ball, but what if you drop the cueball in a pocket?

When asked this question the other day I firmly stated it would be a foul, but checking my rule book last night I could not find it and now think I could have been wrong. Thinking back I may have gotten this from the APA rules but I am not sure.

So is it a foul or not? Thanks.

Rod
06-15-2004, 11:08 AM
Well yes it is, you just state it's your shot. Your just giving up BIH. Why not just pass without the detail?

Rod

dr_billiards
06-15-2004, 11:09 AM
Woody, I don't think it is a foul, because nothing on the table was disturbed.
Doc B /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

woody_968
06-15-2004, 11:33 AM
Rod, I dont mean intentionally giving up the shot. The situation was on another table (I wasnt in this game) and the guy was placing the cueball on the lip of the pocket to shoot from there. The question was what happens if when he took his hand away the cueball dropped into the pocket. Sorry for not being more clear.

Bob_Jewett
06-15-2004, 12:16 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote woody_968:</font><hr>...The question was what happens if when he took his hand away the cueball dropped into the pocket. Sorry for not being more clear. <hr /></blockquote>
The player is not penalized for balls settling. It is not a foul for the player to drop the cue cue ball into a pocket while in hand even if it is from clumsiness rather than settling. Of course, if he shoots the cue ball into a pocket, it's a scratch. The ball-in-hand cue ball is not in play until struck by the tip of the cue.

stockman4180
06-15-2004, 12:20 PM
I have always been taught that the cueball is always live. Because it is always live whatever happens constitutes a shot even dropping it in a pocket (or setting on the edge). TAP and APA has this rule as well (cueball always being live).

Rod
06-15-2004, 12:59 PM
I agree with Bob.

Rod

Harold Acosta
06-15-2004, 08:15 PM
When questions like this one come up, the more I'm convinced that we need World Standarized Rules (already in existence but disregarded by several leagues).

I favor that the cue-ball is not in play until struck by the tip of a cue...

<font color="blue">Billiards: A passionate sport for the mind and soul!</font color>
http://www.thebilliardstour.com/images/animated-stars.gif

pooltchr
06-16-2004, 06:37 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bob_Jewett:</font><hr> The ball-in-hand cue ball is not in play until struck by the tip of the cue. <hr /></blockquote>

Bob, I would agree in this situation that it would be considered settling and not a foul, however, the APA rules are very clear that the cb is in play even when it is in your hand. Should you touch another ball in play while placing the cb in position, it is considered a foul. They even say if the hand that is holding the cb touches a ball on the table, that is also considered a foul.
Another example of why the rules should all be reviewed and standardized.
Steve

Chris Cass
06-16-2004, 06:40 AM
Tap, Tap, Tap.

Regards,

C.C.~~the first thing I look for and the last thing I would do if it were me.

Wally_in_Cincy
06-16-2004, 07:25 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote woody_968:</font><hr> When you have cueball in hand and are placing it on the table I know it is a foul if you touch an object ball, but what if you drop the cueball in a pocket?..... <hr /></blockquote>

I don't see how this could be a foul /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Chris Cass
06-16-2004, 08:31 AM
Hi Wally,

BCA rule 5-10 In Hand:

When cue ball is in hand, the player may place the cue ball anywhere on the bed of the table, except in contact with an object ball. The player may continue to adjust the position of the cue ball until shooting.

Regards,

C.C.~~thinks it's in TE too.

Wally_in_Cincy
06-16-2004, 08:39 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chris Cass:</font><hr> Hi Wally,

BCA rule 5-10 In Hand:

When cue ball is in hand, the player may place the cue ball anywhere on the bed of the table, except in contact with an object ball. The player may continue to adjust the position of the cue ball until shooting.

Regards,

C.C.~~thinks it's in TE too. <hr /></blockquote>

Are you agreeing with me or disagreeing?

What if he drops it on the floor? Is that a foul?

Chris Cass
06-16-2004, 08:43 AM
Wally,

I always agree with you. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif I was answering your question to Woody. If he drops it on the floor? Only if your ob is hit on the way down. HAHAHAHAHA

Regards,

C.C.~~been known to play on gravel. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

woody_968
06-16-2004, 10:28 AM
Thanks for all the reply's. My original confusion was because I had remembered the cueball was always "live", but forgot that it was an APA rule and not a BCA rule. After reading the rule book I thought I was wrong but wanted to make sure.

This is why I wish APA and all the other leagues would use a standard ruleset. I spoke to the league operator of APA one evening about the different rules, no push out in nine ball specifically, and he said he thought they were just trying to simplify things. Its nice to see the leagues bring in knew players, but I wish they would at least teach them the "proper" rules.

Woody.

Wally_in_Cincy
06-16-2004, 10:44 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote woody_968:</font><hr> .....Its nice to see the leagues bring in knew players, but I wish they would at least teach them the "proper" rules.

Woody. <hr /></blockquote>

The APA rules are the same rules as the pro 8-ball rules were in the mid-80's