PDA

View Full Version : Low Limit Texas Hold 'Em



nhp
06-20-2004, 11:03 AM
Sometimes I go to the casino with a few friends, I usually play the $3-6 game. I have noticed the last 10 or so times that I went, that there are usually 1-3 people who always win the hands, and the rest of the people rarely win anything. It's not because of skill, they just always seem to have the nuts. Last night I took 4 bad-beats in a row from the same guy. All of them were big pots. The problem with low-limit games is you get alot of chasers, which means many people stay in hands they technically shouldn't because the odds are against them. This guy in particular was hitting it almost every time. My last straw which made me pack up and leave was when I had pocket Kings. We capped before the flop, the flop comes Jack, King, 3, all off suit. The betting gets capped again, the turn comes a 6. It gets capped again, three people left in the hand now. River comes a 5, capped again. One guy turns over Jack-King, I turn over my trip kings, and the last guy turns over a 2-4 offsuit (straight). Everyone just stared at him for a second, and he smiled as he raked in the monster pot. Boy was I steamed!! Oh well, I'm sure there are worse bad-beats than this. Anyone got any stories?

Fasteddy7
06-20-2004, 04:27 PM
I play alot and I see this happening all the time. Makes you want to jump over the table and grab'em. capped after flop with runner runner inside straight draw????? you gotta laugh at this because in the long run he'll lose. He must play alot with rocks and can bluff them out at the end. I would love to play this guy heads up all night. in the end hes always a loser. i gaurantee. that sure is amazing though.

JPB
06-20-2004, 09:47 PM
Get over it. There are bad players at most limits. Of course, bad 80-160 players are better than bad 3-6 players and play bad somewhat differently, but you are going to lose hands to live players at most limits. And get over getting mad.

Here's a small example from my personal collection, although I don't like telling bad beat stories, I mean they are meaningless. I was in a small pot limit omaha game, I think it was 5-5 with most stacks between 500-1000, at Binions and had position on the worst player. I got him isolated when I had a big hand and flopped a lot. I don't remember exactly what I had or what flopped. I got all his money in the pot on the flop. We didn't make any deals or deal twice or anything. He hit a two outer on the river. After we both missed on the turn; if I hit I could have had him drawing dead on the river I think. Ouch. But he was only 23-1 or whatever. So he's going to hit sometimes. It's not like hitting a 23-1 is like winning the lottery. Other players got mad at him, which really made me mad. He was by far the worst player and I wanted him to keep playing. I was no PLO expert and needed some soft money in the game. I did notice the English players were much more polite than the Americans about it. They play more pot limit and seemed to have a better attitude. Oh well. Afterwards I saw him up in the tournament room and he was friendly with me. I was very happy with that. I didn't get a shot at the money that day, but I want weak players to want to gamble with me. I don't play big, but if you do you need to cultivate a clientele. If you are a total ass people will not gamble with you and will play better against you. Doesn't matter as much in 3-6, but I love it when players have fun when they can't play. Never abuse a weak or wild player by getting mad. Not saying you abused him, but if you get mad it will eventually show and you will affect how the other players react to you.

The best cure for getting mad is to get better. Really learn the math behind the game and the fluctuations. Have enough bankroll. It is hard not to have a lifetime bankroll at 3-6 if you are an American with a job. If you can play at all and aren't a compulsive action junkie it is just about impossible to lose more than 5000 or 6000 in the game over a long period of time. If you lose 2500 over a stretch something is really wrong with your game. You shouldn't have worse than an 1800 swing, although these will become more frequent as bad players get more aggressive in the low limits. But keep records and when you have 1000 hours in the game take a look at them.

I will say tho, that some players are having trouble who are long time winning players. As the games get more aggressive and looser with the poker boom, adjustments will have to be made. Some of the old rocks and nut peddlers are struggling.

Chris Cass
06-20-2004, 10:40 PM
Hi nhp,

I've never played the game nor dealt it in my 9 yrs dealing in the casinos. I did try to learn to deal it and seen my share of poker players. I can tell you this from a outsiders position.

Your going to see more loose players in the lower limit games. The higher the limit, the tighter the player. BUT, there's no guarantee you won't run across both players in any limit. I've seen this many times on $100. bj tables and $5.00 tables.

The majority of the high limit tables play Basic strategy. Very few on a $5. table. Still, you'll know the ones that play Basic by the way they go nuts when a player hits a 16 against a dealer 5 up card.

What truely amazes me is that same guy, that's playing Basic is pulling his hair out of his head. At the same time he wins the hand and sticks around. He's happy and shaking his head alnight, untill he loses. Now, he's pi$$ed.

My advice to you is stop playing. There's always a chance you'll get addicted and your buy-ins will become everything you've got. I could see if you were playing because you enjoy the game but to do that, you have to just say to yourself, "Well, I thought I played my hand right? That's all I can really do." I myself would have to laugh my a$$ off, if it happened to me. All along thinking, "You poor pathetic ba$tards." Lol

Regards,

C.C.

Ralph S.
06-20-2004, 11:29 PM
I was playing at a casino in a seven stud game while waiting for a seat to open at a hold-em table. This lady that was playing had a monster bank roll and was playing every hand all the way with reckless abandon. One hand in particular, I drew a pair of jacks wired. Third street and fourth also came the other two hooks. Four jacks on the first four cards... This lady stays, and even re-raises me.

The hand finally became heads up. At this casino, there is no limit on number of raises in heads up play. She stays and the raising is going wild. She had a 3 and 5 of hearts on the board. She got three hits in a row to get a 7 high straight flush. Having no business what so ever playing a crap hand like she did, you can imigane how ticked I was.

To make matters worse, the casino was implementing a bad beat jackpot, but it didnt start until the first of the upcoming month. I still get steamed when I think about that. That one hand cost me damn near $600 dollars.

Ralph S.
06-20-2004, 11:33 PM
Oh yeah, I also saw a guy lose on four aces to a wheeel straight flush in a hold-em game. I was just a spectator in that game. The guy that lost threw the cards all across the room. He got barred for that and replied that was fine with him since it would save him money from playing in what he felt was a rigged game.

nhp
06-21-2004, 03:14 AM
The casino I play at has a 'holdem jackpot, where Aces full of anything gets beat by quads or better. Both of the cards in your hand have to play, or you don't hit it. The person with the bad-beat (aces full) gets the big share, it's about $8,000, the winner takes $4,000, and there is a table share of a few hundred bucks each for everyone else.

catscradle
06-22-2004, 10:40 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote nhp:</font><hr> Sometimes I go to the casino with a few friends, I usually play the $3-6 game. I have noticed the last 10 or so times that I went, that there are usually 1-3 people who always win the hands, and the rest of the people rarely win anything. It's not because of skill, they just always seem to have the nuts. Last night I took 4 bad-beats in a row from the same guy. All of them were big pots. The problem with low-limit games is you get alot of chasers, which means many people stay in hands they technically shouldn't because the odds are against them. This guy in particular was hitting it almost every time. My last straw which made me pack up and leave was when I had pocket Kings. We capped before the flop, the flop comes Jack, King, 3, all off suit. The betting gets capped again, the turn comes a 6. It gets capped again, three people left in the hand now. River comes a 5, capped again. One guy turns over Jack-King, I turn over my trip kings, and the last guy turns over a 2-4 offsuit (straight). Everyone just stared at him for a second, and he smiled as he raked in the monster pot. Boy was I steamed!! Oh well, I'm sure there are worse bad-beats than this. Anyone got any stories? <hr /></blockquote>

IMO hold'em by it's nature attracts more people who "believe" in luck. These people tend to stay in when they shouldn't and sometimes they're going to get "lucky" and win which encourages them further. When it's a low limit hand that only allows them to hang around longer. However, I believe even in a low-limit game if you play your cards correctly in the long run you'll come out ahead.
Personally I don't like hold'em, to few decision point and I don't like games with common cards. Give me a nice game of 7-stud anytime, it may be more boring but it suits my logical mind better.

JPB
06-22-2004, 06:44 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote catscradle:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote nhp:</font><hr> Sometimes I go to the casino with a few friends, I usually play the $3-6 game. I have noticed the last 10 or so times that I went, that there are usually 1-3 people who always win the hands, and the rest of the people rarely win anything. It's not because of skill, they just always seem to have the nuts. Last night I took 4 bad-beats in a row from the same guy. All of them were big pots. The problem with low-limit games is you get alot of chasers, which means many people stay in hands they technically shouldn't because the odds are against them. This guy in particular was hitting it almost every time. My last straw which made me pack up and leave was when I had pocket Kings. We capped before the flop, the flop comes Jack, King, 3, all off suit. The betting gets capped again, the turn comes a 6. It gets capped again, three people left in the hand now. River comes a 5, capped again. One guy turns over Jack-King, I turn over my trip kings, and the last guy turns over a 2-4 offsuit (straight). Everyone just stared at him for a second, and he smiled as he raked in the monster pot. Boy was I steamed!! Oh well, I'm sure there are worse bad-beats than this. Anyone got any stories? <hr /></blockquote>

IMO hold'em by it's nature attracts more people who "believe" in luck. These people tend to stay in when they shouldn't and sometimes they're going to get "lucky" and win which encourages them further. When it's a low limit hand that only allows them to hang around longer. However, I believe even in a low-limit game if you play your cards correctly in the long run you'll come out ahead.
Personally I don't like hold'em, to few decision point and I don't like games with common cards. Give me a nice game of 7-stud anytime, it may be more boring but it suits my logical mind better.
<hr /></blockquote>


You touch on a lot of interesting differences between the games. I wish there were more stud games around, but players don't like it. The action is holdem now. And the very bad players also make it profitable. Low limit stud is about dead, and the structure has helped kill it. If you want to really learn stud, you pretty much have to start at 15-30, otherwise the ante structure is wrong. I have not really learned stud for this reason. I don't get to play stud, so when I am in Las vegas and see a 15-30 line up of all daily players I tend not to jump in. If I lived in las Vegas I would seek out some excellent lessons and try to play the 30 stud games some day, ideally 75. 75 stud looks like a nice game and I think attracts some live ones.

Stud has less variance for some players because hand values change less from the initial betting round to 4th street. But it has more betting rounds and you can't see you opponent's last card. So for a long time expert holdem players had a smaller standard deviation than stud players at comparable limits. This may be changing some as holdem gets super loose and aggressive and a lot of money goes in preflop and flop bets and raises are meaningless. Typically a decent stud player would have a lower standard deviation than a decent HE player, but for experts the HE game offered a lower SD. Now stud may offer the lower SD at a lot of limits I would think. And truly expert play can go a little farther in stud. But I am unfamiliar w/ this level of play.
Holdem is where the money is at now, and if you play low limit, holdem is the choice given the structure.


BTW, a new book will be coming out in July dealing with loose holdem games. It is a 2+2 book written by Ed Miller, Malmuth and Sklansky. It will have information necessary to win in modern loose holdem games. It isn't a beginners book. Ignore the book at your peril.

Ralph S.
06-23-2004, 12:59 AM
Speaking of hold-em, I seen and advertisement on ESPN that they are going to start airing the 2004 episodes of the WSOP starting sometime in July. Mid July if I remember correctly.