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View Full Version : Pool shot for the heck of it



Malice
06-21-2004, 09:02 PM
3.5 x 7 barbox, heavy cue ball.

http://www.vardaman.org/archive/2003/10/13/pool

Rod
06-21-2004, 10:28 PM
Er well ok, next time put it on the wei as such.

Wei Table (http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/%7Ewei/pool/pooltable2.html)

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It's a good shot to have in your bag, not real difficult but then I don't know how 6's play. All shots are good to have! lol

Wally_in_Cincy
06-22-2004, 06:59 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr> ...I don't know how 6's play.... <hr /></blockquote>

B to B-

re: the shot: not an extremely difficult shot but fun nevertheless /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

SpiderMan
06-22-2004, 08:54 AM
Rod,

Interestingly enough, I think that an APA SL-6 is about equal to the "6" players I encountered in your 1-10 Arizona rating system. A 7 in APA is wide open, they don't have any higher ratings for 8-ball so when you improve you're still a 7.

SpiderMan

Rod
06-22-2004, 09:46 AM
Some 6's I know would never make that shot, even though the balls are close. They don't even know it exists. On the other hand a talented 6 would shoot it once in a while. The range is quite different in both ratings it seems.

Rod

Rod
06-22-2004, 09:48 AM
There all fun Wally, you probably draw whitey into the next county by now. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Wally_in_Cincy
06-22-2004, 10:59 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr> There all fun Wally, you probably draw whitey into the next county by now. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif <hr /></blockquote>

if I don't miscue /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

ras314
06-22-2004, 05:04 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr> ...I don't know how 6's play.... <hr /></blockquote>

B to B-

re: the shot: not an extremely difficult shot but fun nevertheless /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

<hr /></blockquote>
You guys must have missed the bar box heavy cue ball description. No Az 6 I've seen is liable to get that kind of draw. Maybe a 10-2 if the bar box is in better than usual condition.

Malice
06-22-2004, 05:05 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr> Er well ok, next time put it on the wei as such.
<hr /></blockquote>

I tried installing the Wei plug-in the other week, but I couldn't get it to work with my web browser (Mozilla FireFox). Wei does work on my laptop, though (MSFT IE).

Rod
06-22-2004, 06:10 PM
Humm that's odd, maybe you should ask why in the non pool forum. There are some whizzes at that also.

Rod
06-22-2004, 06:22 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote ras314:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr> ...I don't know how 6's play.... <hr /></blockquote>

B to B-

re: the shot: not an extremely difficult shot but fun nevertheless /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

<hr /></blockquote>
You guys must have missed the bar box heavy cue ball description. No Az 6 I've seen is liable to get that kind of draw. Maybe a 10-2 if the bar box is in better than usual condition. <hr /></blockquote>
ras,

I guess I did, however I use to have 7 Dynamo tables with the heavy red dot, not red circle. With the balls that close together though, a decent 8 should be capable. The distance here is what's critical. If that ball was long distance then it becomes a challange. We don't know what the cue ball was, do we? If it was a valley ball a good 6 might make it once in a while. By the post this guy was pumped, stuff happens.

Rod

SpiderMan
06-23-2004, 11:08 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote ras314:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr> ...I don't know how 6's play.... <hr /></blockquote>

B to B-

re: the shot: not an extremely difficult shot but fun nevertheless /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

<hr /></blockquote>
You guys must have missed the bar box heavy cue ball description. No Az 6 I've seen is liable to get that kind of draw. Maybe a 10-2 if the bar box is in better than usual condition. <hr /></blockquote>

I wasn't qualifying the shot, only noting that the APA 6 players I know (non-baggers) play about like the Arizona 6 players I met. Also, I was an APA 7 and an Arizona 7, so there's a little bit of consistency there.

SpiderMan

ras314
06-23-2004, 12:18 PM
"I wasn't qualifying the shot, only noting that the APA 6 players I know (non-baggers) play about like the Arizona 6 players I met."

Interesting, since the Az system is the only one I have any experience with. I would guess your level as at least 8, maybe 9.

ras314
06-23-2004, 12:51 PM
I finally ran across the heavy red dot cb, an improvement over the big heavy cb the place used to have. Most of the Valley and Dynamo tables can use the magnetic Vally ball. Got in a big ruckus once over swapping them, all because I told the management I did.

Anyway with the heavy cb on our local bar box there is no way I can get this much draw and english, even at close seperation. This is a very slow table. With a Valley ball maybe once in a while, sure wouldn't try it in a game.

Not too difficult on my Diamond, that thing is spoiling me.

Rod
06-23-2004, 01:26 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr>

I wasn't qualifying the shot, only noting that the APA 6 players I know (non-baggers) play about like the Arizona 6 players I met. Also, I was an APA 7 and an Arizona 7, so there's a little bit of consistency there.

SpiderMan <hr /></blockquote>

I'm thinking that in the late early stage to no more than mid stages of an APA 7 they would play like an Arizona 7. Of course regions can be different. As I would do with any rating number, divide it into 1/3 rds. It can be broken down even more so but this is just the basis.

In discussions about rating or rated players, with a friend that has rated many players. We break it down, like he is a 7.1 or 7.3 tops. The bottom line is there a 7. Not all 7's or any number are "created" equal. It's their job to increase that level to be competitive at that number. This helps to level out the playing field.

Then on the other side are players that exceed their rating. Then you have people that are over rated. That is supposed to be caught at each ratings committee meeting. You can see there is room for error but it beats no system at all. You also have players/observers watch and interpret how players play by their rating. If your open minded and know a players speed can vary and not jump to conclusions on one shot, game or match it will help to level the field. Well sometimes I wonder, some people are just not qualified observers. lol

Rod

Rod
06-23-2004, 02:13 PM
ras, are you talking about the big ball that is slightly bigger than the object balls? If so that ball is not any heavier than the red dot. I say not any heavier because it only varies a tiny amount. The red dot might be heavier than the big ball depending on wear.

Playing on slow cloth, rails, etc. is dificult to overcome especially if one tries to exceed they're limits. We all have limits. I think though if you put the thought out of your mind that the ball is hard to draw you'll go a lot farther. I say that because I've seen it so many times and I have tricked people by switching balls. Sure the ball may not have reacted the same amount but it was a big improvement. Mind over matter, in this case forget the matter, it will help.

People convince themselves it won't work, so it doesn't. Their strokes change from the normal more fluid motion to a rushed delevery trying to create more power. In the process they hit the ball every where except where they want and don't go through the ball as they would normally. That is if they have a decent stroke to start out with. Just a few thoughts, it does work.

Chris Cass
06-23-2004, 02:37 PM
I like this one,

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%VM6[2%WR5D7%XN7X7%Yr2M9%Zd4Z6%[d2Z3%\T4E0%]N3Z7%^S1D8%eC3a7
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http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/pooltable2.html

Lol,

C.C.

ras314
06-23-2004, 03:28 PM
Rod,

I think the large cb is more difficult to control than the "correct" size heavy cb. And banking it off the rail is liable to make the thing hop. Don't own either so can't really compare them. When I first started playing on a bar table in the 60's I would often use the 10 and up as the cb while playing 9 ball. The difference in cb reaction is obvious to me and may well be that I lose what little stroke I have trying to get those dammed mud balls to react.

A shot similar to CC's that I have tried on occasion. Believe I remember making it once and following the 9 ball in, what a bummer.

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Chris Cass
06-23-2004, 03:37 PM
Hi ras,

No doubt, that plug ball and the heavy red dot along with the big cb are all hard to draw. The follow-thru must be much longer and with attention to your stroke is always important. Wonder what Rod has to say?

Regards,

C.C.~~got used to the big ball and used mostly follow. with these balls it only reenforces you to play the natural roll and not fight the table. it makes you play better in the long run, but not easier. imho

ras314
06-23-2004, 04:13 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chris Cass:</font><hr> C.C.~~got used to the big ball and used mostly follow. with these balls it only reenforces you to play the natural roll and not fight the table. it makes you play better in the long run, but not easier. imho <hr /></blockquote>
There are four towns within 100 miles that have bar table tournaments here. I got on my high horse a bit and refuse to drive that far to any of them with the big cb. One joint had three tables with a different size cb on each one. The biggest was truly a nightmare, never seen anything like it before. You could bank the thing three rails and it would hop a foot in the air on each one. Hit it hard down the table with draw and it was liable to fly in the air back at you. With follow you could really intimidate the bartender 30 feet away. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Think maybe it was a carom ball. Or whatever you call those balls used on tables with no pockets. I think there are actually a few folks hereabouts that know less than I do about pool, difficult as that is to imagin!

SpiderMan
06-23-2004, 04:40 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote ras314:</font><hr> "I wasn't qualifying the shot, only noting that the APA 6 players I know (non-baggers) play about like the Arizona 6 players I met."

Interesting, since the Az system is the only one I have any experience with. I would guess your level as at least 8, maybe 9. <hr /></blockquote>

I was a 7 three years ago, and I tried really hard to impress the guys rating me. Rod (a 10), his friend Rick (an 8 on the rating committee), and I played together for the better part of a week. But we mostly played 9-ball, a game I play with less confidence than 8-ball.

I do believe I've gotten better since then, and it's at least partly due to pearls of wisdom and inspiration I've picked up online /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

SpiderMan

Rod
06-23-2004, 07:05 PM
It is harder to control, but if you played with them all the time it becomes much easier. What we did is open the tables for tournaments and some leagues and charged green fees. We replaced the Dynamo Red Dot with a Red Circle. It had to be done that way because a Red dot will not come back at the end of the table. It goes in with the rest of the balls because it is approximately the same weight. I got so many complaints from people, most were above average to what Iíd all decent players. The complaint was they couldnít draw the ball.

Now, if you take what CC mentions it is true. The ball was meant to be followed, not to say you donít draw it because you do. They were just use to getting in trouble with a light ball and drawing theyíre way out. Lol A change in game strategy was what they needed, play your position to use more follow.

Personally I donít think the big ball is hard to draw. With the larger circumference a little spin goes a long way. The red dot is a little more difficult for me than the big ball. Either way if you have the punch to get you out of trouble, use it. The mud ball is another subject, it is a slug. It is a gray white composition. If you plan on drawing that ball any distance youíd better be a lot closer.

The shot you diagrammed comes up all the time. Youíre straight in and need position at the other end. Itís not that you need to make the nine ball but get in the area, hopefully off the rail. I donít get near as many shots like this, as I did when I didnít know better. Now I error either short or long playing position accordingly. Most players never give themselves enough angle. Thatís not to say it doesnít happen, if it does Iíll draw the ball back. Shoot that about 40,000 times and youíll draw it back with ease. LoL

Here is what I mean, and itís easy enough to over draw and find yourself in the corner if your aim is off. Iíd aim the one slightly left of center to the pocket. Then play it so I bounced off the side rail for position on the two. Itís easier to control the speed that way. You got to have this shot in the bag; it comes up quite a bit. If you miss aim the one though, youíre probably in trouble. You can always play safe if you end up short.

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Rod

Rod
06-23-2004, 07:12 PM
Yep, I agree. I don't know about the longer follow through though. Just a normal good follow through, no quitting. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Rod