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nhp
06-23-2004, 04:26 AM
A friend of mine who plays at pro level told me that once you reach a high level of playing, alot of people see the balls as if they are square. He told me it is not an aiming system, but just a way that you look at them when you are in dead stroke, and makes everything simple. Another thing he told me was that when he is in dead punch, every shot it seems he is aiming very thick on the balls. Anyone ever heard of or experienced anything like this? I've overheard another person talking about how stronger players play on a "thick line" while weaker players play on a "thin line". What do you all think of this?

KGeeED
06-23-2004, 07:09 AM
I don't know. I have never been there. I guess everyone sees things a little different. One player told me he does not aim at a pocket because he knows where to hit the ball by it's location on the table. Another player told me that he hits every ball dead on and uses english to throw the ball into the pocket. If the ball is a diamond away he will use 1/16. 2 diamonds 1/8 and etc. If you listen to all the BS you will find out that it is all BS. You need to listen to a person you can trust and take lessons from a professional instructor. There is no magic secret.

Nostroke
06-23-2004, 07:27 AM
i use to see the contact point on the cue ball as "flat". It did make things easier but i cant conjure up that view anymore so now i find it difficult to line up 2 round things. Sometimes it seems they just can't meet properly.

Chris Cass
06-23-2004, 07:29 AM
Hi nhp,

I don't think he really meant thick or thin lines at all. Balls looking square? I doubt it. It is just something he perceives. When a player is in dead stroke it seems everything looks simple. They transfer this look to play and what looks like an easy run to others when you watch them play is really the way they see the run. Like these pros. When, you see them making it look so easy, it's because they see it that way. Does that make sence? When you have the cb on a string. Everything is simple. No need to move the cb great distances because the best runs are the ones that the cb moves very little and the control is all them. When your seeing the cb move great distances most of the time it's trying to get back in line. They make it look like music. Soft and flowing freely. Almost like a waltz. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif IMHO

Regards,

C.C.

Cueless Joey
06-23-2004, 08:47 AM
Never heard of that but Parica told me he still looks at balls like they're chips/discs.
He learned playing with wooden discs before he played pool.

Pelican
06-23-2004, 10:07 AM
When I took some lessons from Grady Mathews he told me I needed to cut a little thinner than what I thought I should in order to offset the collision induced throw.

larrynj1
06-23-2004, 10:14 AM
i always imagine the balls as "round objects" and as "spheres" when i am in dead stroke. i know this may sound strange, but it really works for me.

phil in sofla
06-23-2004, 04:22 PM
I had a hitting partner who gave me the six out for a couple of years. He mentioned that when he was playing his best, he was hitting the balls fat (I suspect because he used outside English to throw them a bit). He said this was helpful in that the fuller one hits the ball, the more speed is taken from the cue ball, making it more controllable.

As to seeing the balls square, I kind of do that. I use a contact to contact aim line, and when I see that line, it isn't to the POINT of contact, exactly, but the VERTICAL LINE fraction of the ball along which the true point of contact sits, and the same thing on the cue ball. Effectively, it's ignoring the curvature of the balls, and acting as if they were flat (as seen from the shooting line). This works because the cue ball's curvature is equal and opposite to the object ball's at contact.

Diagramming a contact point, say it's to the right side of the object ball, represented by the vertical line:

(left edge of ball) (_____|__} (right edge of ball)

The contact point on the cue ball will be an equal distance from it's LEFT side, inwards.

Rather than take the line from the exact contact points, at the equators of the balls, sometimes hard to get right vertically from the optical illusion of looking down on the balls as we all do, I use the full vertical line fraction of the ball, and line up the same (but opposite) vertical line fraction of the cue ball.

I think taking the 3-dimensionality out of the aiming process simplifies it, and makes it more exact. That it works very well is attested to by the tricky backcut or off-angle combinations I'm able to make using it, where precision is critical, and the margin of error very small.

Rod
06-23-2004, 07:30 PM
Never knew anyone that saw square balls but it seems this fellow does. The part about thick is what ever that person imagines. Just see the angle, no fat or thin. That is unless the shot calls for a fat hit. What some say is the pockets look like buckets. Well they do I suppose when your playing well. What ever one wants to think is fine but use your own, not something imagined by another player. Imagination is partly how people improve, they vision the shot coming off as expected.

Rod

larrynj1
06-23-2004, 11:11 PM
i line up the center of the cue ball with the angle to the pocket on the center of the object ball and aim fat in the center much like the diagram below -

(_o_)

Rod
06-24-2004, 12:23 AM
Just so I understand, where is center? lol To me it's dead straight ahead. You have a 30 degree cut shot and still view it as fat center hit on the o/b? That is center viewing it directly towards the pocket. But your not in that line of view. In this case I see it as appx 1/2 ball hit. Lets use this shot as an example, WEI Table (http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/%7Ewei/pool/pooltable2.html)

START(
%AJ4M5%Pi1S5%UC7Z6%VK7K2%YG2L1%Zi9S7

)END

Do you still see it as a fat center ball hit? I don't see how since at 80+ degrees you can't see the other side. I relate that back to the 30 degree cut, you can't see the other side from your angle, to consider it a center ball hit. You sure could looking straight through the ball to the pocket but your 30 degrees to the side of that angle. I'm confused, please enlighten me.

Rod

1Time
06-24-2004, 12:49 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote nhp:</font><hr> A friend of mine who plays at pro level told me that once you reach a high level of playing, alot of people see the balls as if they are square. He told me it is not an aiming system, but just a way that you look at them when you are in dead stroke, and makes everything simple.<hr /></blockquote>

It is true that once you reach a high level of play and are in dead stroke that you "see" the balls (and pocket) "differently". Note: 2 dimensional squares are "seen", not 3 dimensional cubes. It's more of a paper thin and mostly translucent 2 dimensional square (for me anyway). This is a function of one's imagination gone into over-drive (not literally). When in dead stroke I not only see the cue, object ball and pocket as squares, but in many shots I "see" the squares connected or intersecting with same size and shaped translucent tunnels, shaped as if several cubes were lined up in a row. I don't see the cubes; I'm just describing the shape. Sorry, but it's a little hard for me to describe this in writing.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote nhp:</font><hr>Another thing he told me was that when he is in dead punch, every shot it seems he is aiming very thick on the balls. Anyone ever heard of or experienced anything like this? I've overheard another person talking about how stronger players play on a "thick line" while weaker players play on a "thin line". What do you all think of this? <hr /></blockquote>

Aiming a "thicker" line (I call it fat) is done because it's often easier to more accurately line up a shot this way. The contact point between the CB and OB is then accounted for with adjustments to English, stroke, speed, this, that or whatever one uses. This thicker line is not simply the equivalent of aligning the CB, OB and pocket. The visualization of this line is not the same for all players or shots and there's no uniform formula to determine or define it. I'd have to show and tell this in person to adequately convey how one may determine this "thicker" line since so many variables can come into play. "Weaker" players will aim a "thinner" line since they've learned success with doing so and have yet to learn how to succeed otherwise.

Tommy_Davidson
06-24-2004, 12:56 AM
&gt; I see EXACTLY what you mean,and have delved perhaps too far into different ways of sighting,aiming,and even altered perceptions as a way to improve even when not at a table. I sometimes find myself looking at the balls as if they are on a set of rails or stuck down in a groove,forming a straight line all the way to the pocket,all I have to do then is make sure I get the ball "rolling" down this line,sometimes using spin of one kind or another to "work" or "shape" the shot,the same way pro level golfers can use spin and different delivery methods to their advantage. This idea of "squareness" is probably them seeing the balls as 2-D instead of 3 or perhaps 4-D,kind of like round sheets of paper floating in space,or in the case of actually seeing the balls as square,cubes in space. I certainly hope this makes sense to someone,this is the first time I've actually verbalized this. Tommy D.

rah
06-24-2004, 10:15 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote nhp:</font><hr> A friend of mine who plays at pro level told me that once you reach a high level of playing, alot of people see the balls as if they are square. He told me it is not an aiming system, but just a way that you look at them when you are in dead stroke, and makes everything simple. Another thing he told me was that when he is in dead punch, every shot it seems he is aiming very thick on the balls. Anyone ever heard of or experienced anything like this? I've overheard another person talking about how stronger players play on a "thick line" while weaker players play on a "thin line". What do you all think of this? <hr /></blockquote>

Are you sure he didn't mean the opposite of looking at something [censored]-eyed? Like when shooting a rifle, one my say "I had the deer square in my sights". I serously doubt that the pro meant like a cube if I am understanding that to be what you are telling us.