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adc
06-25-2004, 02:55 AM
Just curious, came across a statement at one of the threads

http://www.billiardsdigest.com/ccboard/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=ccb&Number=143050&page=0&v iew=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

Dude mentioned backspin/spinstyle like asian players...

What's the difference between the playing style of an asian vs a westerner?

Not racists, curious, I'm asian, but never had a chance to play against an westerner... yet.

I notice though, that against Australians (since I am now in Australia), there isn't much difference at the high level plays, though at lower level, Australians are more with potting and less positional play, while most asians tend to go for more positional playing and less potting.

raistlin
06-25-2004, 05:18 AM
Not racist at all.

The 'Asian' style of play is where a player uses a great deal of spin to move the cb around the table. This is especially prevailent in the Phillipino guys. The reason they do this is because they learned the game on extremely unresponsive tables in high humidity. Therefore to play any sort of position, the cb had to be really juiced to get there.

Have I got the wrong of the stick guys?

Leviathan
06-25-2004, 05:45 AM
Hello, adc. There may be national and regional styles of play. I'd guess that dominance of a particular style of play in a nation or region could be a result of historical factors or the strong influence of well-known local players. For example, it could be the case that many Australians play snooker before getting interested in pool and tend to play pool with a controlled snooker stroke. It could be the case that many new players in the Philippines emulate the long-bridge loose-stroke style of Reyes. This is just speculation...

AS

Leviathan
06-25-2004, 05:51 AM
Sounds reasonable to me.--AS

adc
06-25-2004, 06:27 AM
But if you don't use spin, wouldn't it be much more, focused on the ability to pot then?

Since spin allows the cb to move to another point much easier, but if you don't use spin that much, it would be much harder to move the cb.

I would say that Asians are usually into snooker first, before going to pool. Makes the transition somewhat easier I guess. Not sure about Australians, where I am doesn't seem to have that many snooker clubs, but lots of pubs have pool tables though.

Leviathan
06-25-2004, 07:26 AM
Hi, adc:

Well, as I said, I was just speculating. You and raistlin know a lot more about pool in Asia, Australia, and the Philippines than I do! Obviously, though, Asia is big and diverse. I understand that India has produced outstanding snooker players, and I feel sure that the popularity of snooker in India is related to the history of British influence there. However, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that snooker is less important in Japan, where the British had less influence during the colonial era.

Also, there's the question of the influence of carom games on styles of play in pool. Lee Kun Fang kicks with the skill and confidence of a billiard player, and I seem to recall that he's from Hong Kong, which the British controlled until very recently. I suspect that Mr. Lee has played a lot of 3-cushion billiards! Do the good Japanese players kick that way? And what about the influence of the French on cuesports in Southeast Asia--did they introduce carom games there, and does the pool style of today's Vietnamese players suggest a caroms background? Darned if I know, but I'm curious about these things.

"Historical Influences on Regional Styles of Play in Pool" would make a great thesis subject for a graduate student who likes to hang out in pool halls!

Regards,
AS

Cueless Joey
06-25-2004, 07:44 AM
ADC, in the Philippines, a ton of players learn playing OUTDOORS. Yup, just a roof over the tables and open air.
Try moving whitey without a ton of english there. Also, heavy cues are preferred there.
Taiwanese players play differently. They don't spin the rock as much. Most of the pool halls there are AC'd. Hence you see male pro players from Taiwan with very conservative stroke.

Scott Lee
06-25-2004, 07:45 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Leviathan:</font><hr> Hi, adc:

Well, as I said, I was just speculating. You and raistlin know a lot more about pool in Asia, Australia, and the Philippines than I do! Obviously, though, Asia is big and diverse. I understand that India has produced outstanding snooker players, and I feel sure that the popularity of snooker in India is related to the history of British influence there. However, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that snooker is less important in Japan, where the British had less influence during the colonial era.

Also, there's the question of the influence of carom games on styles of play in pool. Lee Kun Fang kicks with the skill and confidence of a billiard player, and I seem to recall that he's from Hong Kong, which the British controlled until very recently. I suspect that Mr. Lee has played a lot of 3-cushion billiards! Do the good Japanese players kick that way? And what about the influence of the French on cuesports in Southeast Asia--did they introduce carom games there, and does the pool style of today's Vietnamese players suggest a caroms background? Darned if I know, but I'm curious about these things.

"Historical Influences on Regional Styles of Play in Pool" would make a great thesis subject for a graduate student who likes to hang out in pool halls!

Regards,
AS <hr /></blockquote>

Alan...Snooker is played little, if any, in SE Asia and the far east. Carom billiards is played EVERYWHERE out there. For example, in Seoul, Korea there are 5000 poolrooms (in just ONE city), and almost all of them are exclusively carom billiard rooms. In Japan, 3-C is played, but pocket billiards is much more dominant and popular. Does 3-C play contribute to a better pool game? Undoubtably, imo, as any and all cue games still relate originally to how well the player learns to efficiently and consistently move the cuestick through the cueball. The major difference between carom and pocket billiards, imo, is that 3-C is played with sidespin (english) on nearly every shot. Pocket billiard players (good ones) realize that sidespin should be allocated sparingly, and play much more on the vertical axis of the CB. In my travels and teaching, I see that many more poolplayers do not understand basic physics about pool...that top and bottom ALONE contribute to curving the CB, NOT sidespin. Also, too many players automatically add right or left english, when aiming high or low on the CB, without realizing that they don't really NEED the sidespin to accomplish the position. Learn exactly what happens when you work the CB along the vertical axis, based on stroke speed, and angles, and your game will improve almost immediately. This, of course, is predicated on knowing what a real stroke is, and having the ability to deliver it consistently (a problem for ALL of us)! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif LOL

Scott Lee

Leviathan
06-25-2004, 08:17 AM
Hi, Scott. Interesting stuff. Man, it must be great getting to play and teach pool all around the world, as you do. But I'm sure the constant traveling is tiring. Come on, now, be honest: don't you wish you'd spent the last 30 years working as a bookkeeper in Minot, North Dakota? /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

AS

N8ball
06-25-2004, 09:36 AM
Minot, ND? Thats where im from. You from here as well?

Nate

Leviathan
06-25-2004, 10:12 AM
Hi, Nate. No, afraid I've never been to Minot. Just pulled the name out of thin air. Nice place?

AS

Rod
06-25-2004, 10:23 AM
That's pretty amazing huh?

Leviathan
06-25-2004, 10:38 AM
Yeah, Rod--but I'm used to this kind of thing. A woman put a voodoo curse on me about thirty years ago, and it still bites me in the ass now and then. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

AS

Voodoo Daddy
06-25-2004, 11:47 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Leviathan:</font><hr> Yeah, Rod--but I'm used to this kind of thing. A woman put a voodoo curse on me about thirty years ago, and it still bites me in the ass now and then. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

AS <hr /></blockquote>

Why's it gotta be a VOODOO curse?...HAHAHAHAHA

Voodoo~~~passin' through, seen the quote, couldnt resist!!

ryushen21
06-26-2004, 02:24 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cueless Joey:</font><hr>
Taiwanese players play differently. They don't spin the rock as much. Most of the pool halls there are AC'd. Hence you see male pro players from Taiwan with very conservative stroke. <hr /></blockquote>

I was actually gonna make a comment about this also. I have a good friend of mine who started playing in Taiwan before he was playing here and he has a very calm, very relaxed stroke. But he can utilize english and the CB moving when he needs to.

This thread also brings up another question i had. I have noticed, with my friend and a few of his fellow Asian poolplaying friends that it seems like their stroke is isolated down to the wrist. I was watching my friend play and he moves his arm below the elbow very little. It looks like all of his movement is just at the wrist. Has anyone else seen this or am i going crazy?

tateuts
06-26-2004, 05:52 PM
I don't think there is an "asian style". I think there is a certain style of Filipino player people are referring to. Efren, Bustamante, and Santos Sambojan all have it. Big smooth stroke, long bridge, relaxed wrist, lots of cue movement (looks like on several different planes) and a ton of spin to motor the cue ball around. When they first brought this style of play to the USA, the announcers like Incardona and Danny D. called it "the Filipino finesse game". With their twirling cut shots, multi rail play, incredible speed control, and banking game, these players stood in contrast to players like Archer and Strickland, their style being considered a more strightforward "power game".

Not all Filipino's look like this. Jose Parica and Antonio Lining look to me to have pretty conventional (but incredibly good) styles. The disciplined styles of Japanese and Taiwanese players I would compare more to European players than Filipinos.

Chris

adc
06-26-2004, 07:03 PM
en21] <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cueless Joey:</font><hr>
Taiwanese players play differently. They don't spin the rock as much. Most of the pool halls there are AC'd. Hence you see male pro players from Taiwan with very conservative stroke. <hr /></blockquote>

This thread also brings up another question i had. I have noticed, with my friend and a few of his fellow Asian poolplaying friends that it seems like their stroke is isolated down to the wrist. I was watching my friend play and he moves his arm below the elbow very little. It looks like all of his movement is just at the wrist. Has anyone else seen this or am i going crazy? <hr /></blockquote>

No. You're not going crazy. In Malaysia, I know of old timers (probably having 30-40 years of play), that play the entire game like that... I was told it's a bad habit they picked up when learning how to play 3-Ball Billards (3 ball carom?), how it is, I am not sure. But yeah, I have seen that before...

Could be that because they haven't got control of moving the arm joints without moving out of aligntment that they just lock everything into place and push the ball along with the power of their wrist.


I thought snooker is rather popular in South East Asia ... well perhaps not as popular as say.. pool, but popular nevertheless... I know I grew up with 2 snooker halls near my house.

It would be fun to do a thesis on the influencing factors on pool playing styles and methods.

ryushen21
06-26-2004, 10:40 PM
I am not sure but it seems to me that the less total arm movement there is, the more accurate you would be because it creates fewer areas for problems to occur. i know that most pool players isolate from the elbow down for their stroke but i found this wrist isolation kind of intriguing. i tried it out myself but it seemed kind of weird.

N8ball
06-27-2004, 04:06 PM
Minot.......its ok. 35,000 ppl and one of the best (imo) poolhalls in the state. just surprised to see my hometown on here, most ppl dont even know any cities in ND besides Fargo, and thats just cause of the movie. and no us ND ppl arent anything like we are portrayed in that movie /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Nate

Leviathan
06-27-2004, 04:57 PM
I checked out this web site:

http://www.visitminot.org/ .

Minot looks like a real good place to live. It looks a heck of a lot nicer than this lousy burg!

AS

rah
06-28-2004, 09:47 AM
Seems like to me that Asians like to draw the ball a lot more than Americans to get position. That observation comes from watching only a few Asians play, but nonetheless that is the impression I got. Now one may ask, why do others like to use draw a lot? Machosim. Maybe in Asia it impresses the women if they see a lot of that fancy hard to do draw LOL. Just kidding on all of this.

trsousie
06-29-2004, 02:19 AM
Snooker is more popular in southeast asia, India, Hong Kong and China. (Kun-Fang Lee is from Taiwan, not Hong Kong.) Pocket billiard has great influence in Japan, Taiwan and the Philippines. As I know, only few people play snooker in Japan and Taiwan. But in Korea, it is different from other countries, carom billiards is the main stream there, so most korea players are good at "safe". The style of players from Taiwan and the Philippines is smooth, Japanese players are more careful and traditional. As for other asian players, they are accurate as all snooker players.

wolfdancer
06-29-2004, 12:08 PM
Scott, with a pop. of 10 mil.....they have 5000 pool rooms? 71% of the pop. are in the 15-to-64 age range, and the male/female is near 50%, so that means one pool room for every 700 red-blooded, brown-eyed male.Almost the same ratio of lawyers to the general pop. in Calif.
Actually I understand there are only 3000 tables there...some rooms share the table.AND I bet there's a Lee playing, in every room.
I've been bragging to my friends about your nice comments, regarding my stroke, and need you to verify it in writing for me. I told them you said I had a unique stroke, with great coordination.
Actually I think the conversation went something like:
"What do you think of my stroke?"
SCOTT "I've never seen anything like it"
"Do I have good hand-eye coordination?"
SCOTT " You'ld have to, with that stroke"