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View Full Version : Where do you like the blance point



rukiddingme
06-26-2004, 05:20 AM
to be on your cue?
I was reading the thread regarding what weight people liked to shoot with and how weight sensitive they were. Almost everyone said that the balance point was key. How far up or down do you like your balance point to be?
ruk
I shoot better with my eyes closed than with my eyes open...lol...not kidding!
ruk

BLACKHEART
06-26-2004, 07:03 AM
/ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gifMy Qs are all 18-18 1/2" from the end of the butt cap...JER

Leviathan
06-26-2004, 07:14 AM
Well, I like a balance point about 18.5 inches from the butt end--but one's perception of a cue's balance depends largely on the way one positions his hands on the cue. If you move your back hand toward the joint, the cue feels heavier in the butt and lighter in the bridge. If you move your back hand toward the butt, the cue feels lighter in the butt and heavier in the bridge.

AS

Popcorn
06-26-2004, 08:43 AM
I think that is a pretty good generic balance point. Years ago 57's used to be balanced around 17 inches from the butt. I honestly believe many cues are just a little too far forward today. I have picked up cues that are as much as 21 inches from the butt. It is certainly a matter of preference, but since most players don't really know what they like anyway, I think 18 to 19 inches from the butt most anyone will be happy with.

1Time
06-26-2004, 09:24 AM
The balance point is the point where the cue is held to get it to balance on a horizontal plane. I prefer a cue with a pro taper so the balance point would be a little farther back from other cues that are thicker up front.

The front of my grip is a few inches to the rear of the balance point. The location of my grip varies a little with the shot taken and stroke I use. For a shot where I want more force or action on the cue like the break or a heavy draw, my grip will be a little farther back than usual. And for a shot that requires a much finer touch my grip will be a little closer to the balance point.

Cueless Joey
06-26-2004, 12:34 PM
There is no such thing as a cue with a pro-taper. :-)

1Time
06-26-2004, 12:45 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cueless Joey:</font><hr> There is no such thing as a cue with a pro-taper. :-) <hr /></blockquote>

You're kidding.

Frank_Glenn
06-26-2004, 12:55 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cueless Joey:</font><hr> There is no such thing as a cue with a pro-taper. :-) <hr /></blockquote>

LOL, well, technically I guess you are correct since a "Pro Taper" is a cylinder, and not tapered.

Cueless Joey
06-26-2004, 01:06 PM
Yup. It's a long barrell. Not a taper. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Then, how long is the barrell before it becomes a pro-taper? /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Frank_Glenn
06-26-2004, 01:32 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cueless Joey:</font><hr> Yup. It's a long barrell. Not a taper. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Then, how long is the barrell before it becomes a pro-taper? /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif <hr /></blockquote>

I've seen them anywhere from 10" to 14". This can make the shaft pretty whippy if it is done after the original taper. If it's 13 MM it's usually not too bad, but if it's 12MM and 14" it takes a lot of the backbone out of the shaft, IMO. I use a constant or conical taper shaft 12.5MM at the tip, although I have some that are different from that.

Fred Agnir
06-26-2004, 02:05 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote rukiddingme:</font><hr> to be on your cue?
I was reading the thread regarding what weight people liked to shoot with and how weight sensitive they were. Almost everyone said that the balance point was key. How far up or down do you like your balance point to be?
ruk
I shoot better with my eyes closed than with my eyes open...lol...not kidding!
ruk <hr /></blockquote>For my cues, at 58" long, anything with balance point that's close to 19" from the butt end is too far forward, while those closer to 17" is too far back. So, I guess 18" is right for me.

Fred

Rod
06-26-2004, 02:26 PM
19.OZ --18 1/2" but if the cue is a tad lighter like my break cue it's at 18". I don't know where the jump cue is at. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Rod

Frank_Glenn
06-26-2004, 03:50 PM
18" plus or minus 1/2" is fine for me.

1Time
06-26-2004, 04:02 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cueless Joey:</font><hr> There is no such thing as a cue with a pro-taper. :-) <hr /></blockquote>

Apparently you're not kidding. I just did a quick "Google search" for "pro-taper" and within seconds got 20 pages of hits referring to the taper of a cue's shaft. The term "pro-taper" is commonly used among pool enthusiasts regardless of how it's defined, and anyone in this forum who states different IS kidding, or, is just flat out telling a lie... no if, and, or buts about it.

1Time
06-26-2004, 04:21 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cueless Joey:</font><hr> Yup. It's a long barrell. Not a taper. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Then, how long is the barrell before it becomes a pro-taper? /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif <hr /></blockquote>

Wrong. The term "pro-taper" does not refer to the non-tapered barrell part of the shaft. It refers to the entire shaft. A shaft is deemed to have a pro-taper, not the non-tapered barrell part of the shaft. A pro-tapered shaft has a longer than standard, non-tapered barrell part of the shaft.

The length the non-tapered barrell part of the shaft must be before a shaft is considered to have a "pro-taper" as opposed to a "standard taper" is I'm sure defined differently. I didn't bother reading the 20 pages of hits I got on my quick "Google search" but I'm sure one could find varying opinions on this.

Cueless Joey
06-27-2004, 03:02 AM
You know it exists. Why did you have to look it up?
You still have not defined it concretely.
Meucci has a pro-taper, 314 has a pro-taper, Schuler has an American Pro and Euro Pro taper.
Try getting a shaft made with a pro-taper from different cuemakers. You'll end up with different tapers.
Now, if you say you want a 13mm tip, 12-inch barrell and .840 at the joint, that is concrete.

1Time
06-27-2004, 04:47 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cueless Joey:</font><hr> You know it exists. Why did you have to look it up? <hr /></blockquote>
Hey, you're the one who said there's no such thing as a pro-taper and then tried backing it up with an incorrect explanation. I did the Google search so I could report my first hand account as to how easily your claim could be proved wrong by anyone who reads this thread. First and apparently with no constructive intent you stated there's no such thing as a pro-taper and then you were wrong in your explanation. I just cleaned up the mess you made and provided proof for the benefit of others.


<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cueless Joey:</font><hr>You still have not defined it concretely.<hr /></blockquote>
I clearly addressed this in my previous post. I'm sorry if you did not understand my explanation.

Cueless Joey
06-27-2004, 11:46 AM
[ QUOTE ]
The balance point is the point where the cue is held to get it to balance on a horizontal plane. I prefer a cue with a pro taper so the balance point would be a little farther back from other cues that are thicker up front.
<hr /></blockquote>
First off you wrote A CUE with a pro taper not shaft.
Frank mentioned the pro-TAPER shaft.
Which is really an oxy-moron because the most popular belief of a pro-taper shaft is 10-inch or longer barrel.
Anything with a slight conical taper in that area is referred to as a MODIFIED pro-taper.
Is there are a pro-taper CUE? No.
Either the cue is thin or thick and or has a straight taper or compound taper.
I make cues. If someone called me and said he wanted a pro-taper shaft, I still need the specs. If pro-taper shafts are clear and concrete, all would be needed then is the tip size. But, since a "pro-taper" shaft varies from zip code to zip code to person to person, I'll have to ask for specs.
Popular belief does not make fact.
Btw, a " pro-taper" shaft does not change the balance point of cue that much. You're taking off .2 of an oz., if that , with "pro-taper" shaft.
The pin used, woods, and how the butt is made has a lot more to do with balance point.

1Time
06-27-2004, 11:57 AM
I'm stupified by your failure to grasp this. The shaft is a part of the cue; the non-tapered barrel is a part of the shaft. When a cue is referred to as having a pro-taper, one is referring to the shaft as being a part of the cue. This is just the same as if one says they prefer a cue with a hard tip or a linen wrap. The tip and the wrap are part of the cue. Thus, it's perfectly understandable for one to say they prefer a cue with a pro-taper. It's understood the pro-taper is referring to the shaft and the shaft is part of the cue. Get a clue cueless. You can argue the rest of these points if you want, but you're simply not making sense.

tateuts
06-27-2004, 12:40 PM
I found it kind of interesting that my 60" JW feels perfectly balanced to me with the Predator shaft (30") at 19 1/4" balance point. I suppose this would be proportionate to a 58" cue with an 18 1/4" balance point.

However, the cue has a whole different personality with the JW regular (30") shafts, which move the balance point up a full inch to 20 1/4inches and weigh 1/2 oz. more.

Chris

Cueless Joey
06-27-2004, 12:54 PM
[ QUOTE ]
What is a "pro" taper?.........Look at that cue closer. You thought the cue was crooked when you looked down the shaft...huh? More likely what you are seeing is the taper. A Pro taper is the way the shaft is cut to be a fairly constant diameter for some distance down from the tip. This constant diameter will range from 6 inches to about 18 inches back from the tip. This taper makes the cue easier to hold while shooting, and allows the shaft additional flex when hitting a ball. There are a lot of opinions on what length of taper is best......you be the judge. <hr /></blockquote> H.E.A.D.S. (http://www.netpath.net/heads/faq/cuefaq.html)
Apparently some judge pro-taper based on the length of the barrel.
......
[ QUOTE ]
A pro-tapered shaft has a longer than standard, non-tapered barrell part of the shaft.

<hr /></blockquote> Which standard? Can you pls spec it out for me? /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
[ QUOTE ]
The length the non-tapered barrell part of the shaft must be before a shaft is considered to have a "pro-taper" as opposed to a "standard taper" is I'm sure defined differently. I didn't bother reading the 20 pages of hits I got on my quick "Google search" but I'm sure one could find varying opinions on this. <hr /></blockquote>
Exactly. Now, if someone says he wants a 12-inch pro "taper", I know he wants a 12-inch barrell.
If you don't think pro-taper refers to the long barrel of the shaft, that's ok. Taper is defined as, "a convex shape that narrows toward a point."
So, really the taper is from the joint to the beginning of the barrel ( that is convex after all).
But, that'll just confuse people.
[ QUOTE ]
Wrong. The term "pro-taper" does not refer to the non-tapered barrell part of the shaft. It refers to the entire shaft. A shaft is deemed to have a pro-taper, not the non-tapered barrell part of the shaft. A pro-tapered shaft has a longer than standard, non-tapered barrell part of the shaft.
<hr /></blockquote>
You disagree with yourself here. First you say pro-taper does not refer to the barrel. Then you write, a pro-taper shaft has a longer that standard, non-tapered barrel part of the shaft.

Cueless Joey
06-27-2004, 12:57 PM
Pred shafts weight around 3.4 oz ( hollowed end, light ferrule and long barrel contribute to this).
A 30-inch old growth shaft with 13 mm tip should weigh around 4 oz ( Stroud's taper).

Leviathan
06-27-2004, 02:13 PM
Hi, Joey. About shaft weight: I've had only one Predator 314 shaft. It was a 29-incher with a brass insert for a quick-release Viking pin. It weighed 4.18 oz. on a Harvard trip balance. On another subject--going from a shaft I'm used to to one that "feels light" on the same cue bothers the crap out of me!

AS

Cueless Joey
06-27-2004, 02:22 PM
4.18?
That is on a very high side of Preds.
I weighed mine one time. It was 3.2. It had a 12.25mm tip though and had a nylon insert.

tateuts
06-27-2004, 03:27 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cueless Joey:</font><hr> Pred shafts weight around 3.4 oz ( hollowed end, light ferrule and long barrel contribute to this).
A 30-inch old growth shaft with 13 mm tip should weigh around 4 oz ( Stroud's taper). <hr /></blockquote>

Exactly on the money. My Predator weighs 3.5 oz but it's 30". You know your stuff. Do you consider the Predator taper to be relatively stiff?


Chris

KGeeED
06-27-2004, 09:50 PM
This is all BS. If I said I like my balance point to be 2 inches from the butt what does it prove. I like the balance point 2 inches from the butt. Now everyone is going to flame me about where I want my balance point. The question is where do I like the balance point? I like it 2 inches from the butt. It is my cue. I want it 2 inches from the butt. You buy your cue the way you want it and I will have it the way I want it.

The truth is most cues are 18 to 20 inches from the butt. A good cue maker that supplies a cue with 2 shafts will make both shafts the same so the balance point will be the same with both shafts. If the cue is balanced properly it will be hard to tell the weight when shooting with it. This is why I don't believe in changing the weight bolt in the end of the cue to change the weight. When you change the weight you are altering the balance point. To me it is more important to adjust the balance point by the weight bolt.

Now that You know where I like my balance point what does it prove? That I that like my balance point 2 inches from the butt. LOL

bluewolf
06-28-2004, 03:53 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote BLACKHEART:</font><hr> /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gifMy Qs are all 18-18 1/2" from the end of the butt cap...JER <hr /></blockquote>

IMO, Jer cues are nearly if not exactly mid balanced. At least that is the case with the one I have. My scruggs has a slight front balance and our old falcon we got for our daughter, is slightly front balanced. If you put a predator shaft on the falcon, it becomes slightly back balanced.

I do not like an obvious back balanced cue, but one that is slight back by putting a pred shaft on it, I can deal with it, but really prefer a cue that is mid to slightly front.

Balance is the most important aspect of the cue for me, which is why I have not tried the predator on the blackheart nor the scruggs. The falcon came with a regular maple shaft and a 314, which is why I was able to notice the difference.

As far as how many inches from the butt this is, I do not go around with a tape measure to figure this out, but rather go by how the cue 'feels'.

Laura

ottoboy
06-28-2004, 06:32 PM
What do you mean there is NO such thing as a pro-taper.
Mine is and I hit a Lucasi.

ottoboy

Fred Agnir
06-28-2004, 06:47 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cueless Joey:</font><hr> There is no such thing as a cue with a pro-taper. :-) <hr /></blockquote>The original pro-taper done by Herman Rambow was indeed tapered. The follow-up pro-tapers by Balabushka et al were also tapered.

Those that follow the old masters, but don't realize that there was taper in the pro-taper make a conglomeration that some people will call a "modified pro-taper" or a "modern pro-taper" which is cylindrical rather than conical. I would call that a delayed taper.

But, yes, there is still a pro-taper that many cuemakers still make. And it's tapered.

Fred

Leviathan
06-28-2004, 07:24 PM
Hi, Fred. I wonder whether the American Cuemakers Assn. could devise and publish a useful set names and descriptions of shaft tapers? If they did this, maybe you or Jim Buss could report on it in some pool magazine...

AS