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eg8r
07-01-2004, 02:28 PM
I found this interview link from the Drudgereport, but I have not seen any instances of it on any of the major news websites. Maybe it will be in the news tonight. Maybe the DoD just made it up, whaddya think Q?

Anyways, here is an excerpt from the interview (http://www.dod.mil/transcripts/2004/tr20040630-secdef0949.html) [ QUOTE ]
Q: Secretary Don Rumsfeld, the secretary of defense. A couple of other issues I want to get to were weapons of mass destruction and the Supreme Court rulings. And so quickly, on the weapons of mass destruction, obviously, the opposition to the administration says we should never have invaded. The Bush administration lied about the WMD, never found any, never were any, etcetera, etcetera. Now, I’m reading recent reports in fairly easily accessible published accounts that Syria is holding the weapons of mass destruction or some of them, that others were destroyed, that others might still be hidden in Iraq, etcetera. What is the status on WMD? And if Syria is holding any of them and you guys know about it, how come we haven’t heard about it?



SEC. RUMSFELD: Well, let me respond this way. The decision to go to war was a concern on the part of, first, the president, then the Congress of the United States and ultimately the United Nations that Saddam Hussein had had weapons of mass destruction, had used them on his neighbors in Iran and had used them on his own people in Iraq – chemical weapons – that he was known to have various other WMD programs and that he was required by the United Nations over a period of some 17 resolutions to file a declaration declaring what he had. And everyone agreed he had filed a fraudulent declaration as to what weapons of mass destruction he had. The debate as to whether to go to war was not whether or not he’d filed a fraudulent declaration. Everyone agreed to that. The only question was should you give him another chance, should you wait and go 18 resolutions or 19 resolutions, another five years or however many.



Now what’s actually happened? Right now you have the Iraqi Survey Group, which is a multinational group that’s out there reviewing documentation and looking at suspect WMD sites. I was with the Polish minister of defense this weekend in Istanbul, Turkey at the NATO Summit. And in the course of that, he pointed out that his troops in Iraq had recently come across – I’ve forgotten the number, but something like 16 or 17 – warheads that contained sarin and mustard gas. <font color="green"> What do you think if this actually does hit the news, will the media question the quantity found? </font color>



Now these are weapons that we always knew Saddam Hussein had that he had not declared and they have tested them and I have not seen them and I have not tested them, but they believe that they are correct that these, in fact, were undeclared chemical weapons -- sarin and mustard gas -- quite lethal and that is a discovery that just occurred within the last period of days. If you think about -- most people remember the image of where Saddam Hussein was captured in that hole -- that pit that he was living in. That pit, that hole in the ground was probably big enough to hold chemical and biological weapons sufficient to kill tens of thousands of people. And therefore, it is not hard to hide things in a country the size of California. It’s quite easy to hide things. In fact, we finally found a bunch of jet aircraft that they’ve buried underground.



In answer to your question on Syria, there have been a lot of intelligence speculation and rumors and chatter about the fact that Saddam Hussein may have placed some of his weapons of mass destruction in Syria prior to the start of the war. Until that can be validated and proved, you’ll find people in the administration not talking about it. <hr /></blockquote> It is so funny how quick the liberal media is to jump to conclusions. I remember 2 weeks into the war the media was calling the war a failure because it was not over yet. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif Quite funny, they were equally quick at believing there are/were no WMDs in Iraq.

eg8r

highsea
07-01-2004, 03:03 PM
But Ed, that doesn't matter because it wasn't a warehouse full with a big sign out front that said "This way to the WMD's", and it wasn't reported by Al-Jazerra.

The (defected) head of the Iraqi nuclear program led US investigators to a rosebush in his garden last year, where they dug up centrifuge parts for uranium enrichment. There was a brief mention on CNN. That was all I ever heard about it.

Just keep repeating this: "Iraq had no WMD's, Iraq had no WMD's..." Hey, it works for the media. /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif

-CM

mred477
07-01-2004, 08:06 PM
It doesn't matter whether they've found WMDs.

[ QUOTE ]
President Bush, on why the U.S. went into Iraq:
"In Iraq, I saw a gathering threat. The world saw a gathering threat. The United Nations saw a threat. I went to the United Nations. I said, Listen, you have been calling upon this guy to disarm for 10 years. He has chosen not to. Now let's give him one more final chance to do so. And unanimously the Security Council stepped up and said disarm or face serious consequences."<hr /></blockquote>

Somehow, Saddam's unwillingness to disarm is not what caused this war? Our cowboy president must be to blame. I disagree with Bush on many issues, but the war is not one of them. He didn't lie to start this war. If it was about oil, he could've just stopped U.S. sanctions on Iraq. It's amazing the lengths at which liberals will go to discredit him. If you have legitimate arguments against the war, that's fine. If you have legitimate arguments against his domestic policy (which I have a ton), fine again. But the people who've lied about Iraq are those insisting that Bush lied. Well, that's enough from this soapbox.

Will ~ Anyone hear the story that there is new evidence that the part of the State of the Union speech about yellow cake that Saddam was trying to obtain from Africa may actually be true? I heard it on Boortz...wonder why I haven't heard it on CNN? Hmmmm...

Wally_in_Cincy
07-02-2004, 06:19 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote mred477:</font><hr> .... Anyone hear the story that there is new evidence that the part of the State of the Union speech about yellow cake that Saddam was trying to obtain from Africa may actually be true? I heard it on Boortz...wonder why I haven't heard it on CNN? Hmmmm... <hr /></blockquote>

I believe that originally came from British intelligence and they have never wavered in their belief of its validity.

Qtec
07-02-2004, 08:06 AM
no evidence (http://observer.guardian.co.uk/politics/story/0,6903,1248270,00.html)

Q

Nightstalker
07-02-2004, 11:27 AM
That site just has articles dealing with the abuse of the prisoners, rulings on the legality of the war, etc. Just another leftist media outlet.

Wally_in_Cincy
07-02-2004, 12:08 PM
I heard that the New York Times had one front page story about the food-for-oil scandal. How many times was Abu-Grahib on the front page? Fifty !

Bias? Surely not.

Nightstalker
07-02-2004, 12:27 PM
Hey Wally, not to mention the upteen articles about Farenheit 9/11. Truly puke-worthy IMO.

highsea
07-02-2004, 01:42 PM
Well, Fox has picked up the story. There were 17 rockets and 2 mortars that were purchased by the Poles.

[ QUOTE ]
"We were mortified by the information that terrorists were looking for these warheads and offered $5,000 apiece," Dukaczewski said. "An attack with such weapons would be hard to imagine. All of our activity was accelerated at appropriating these warheads."

Dukaczewski refused to give any further details about the terrorists or the sellers of the munitions, saying only that his troops thwarted terrorists by purchasing the 17 rockets for a Soviet-era launcher and two mortar rounds containing the nerve agent for an undisclosed sum June 23.

The warheads all contained cyclosarin, multinational force commander Polish Gen. Mieczyslaw Bieniek said.

"Laboratory tests showed the presence in them of cyclosarin, a very toxic gas, five times stronger than sarin and five times more durable," Bieniek told Poland's TVN24 at the force's Camp Babylon headquarters.

"If these warheads, which were still usable, were used on a military base like Camp Babylon, they would have caused unforeseeable damage." <hr /></blockquote>
The article (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,124576,00.html)

-CM

eg8r
07-02-2004, 09:01 PM
Well, there you go, Fox to the rescue. LOL

I wonder if CNN will run that news alongside some of the postive things happening over in Iraq.

eg8r

Qtec
07-03-2004, 09:46 AM
This might surprise you.


"Iraq's institutions of higher learning were once the most modern in the Middle East. But they were smothered under Saddam Hussein, then further devastated by looting after Saddam's government was toppled last year.

In his initial travels around Iraq, Agresto, 58, observed students sitting on the floor in burned-out classrooms. He visited technical colleges with no tools. He saw academic journals from the 1960s kept under lock at an agricultural college because the school did not possess more-recent books.

"It's difficult to describe how bad things were," he recalled.

Agresto found the universities needed $1.2 billion to become viable centers of learning and reap goodwill for the U.S. rebuilding effort. But of the $18.6 billion U.S. reconstruction package approved by Congress last year, higher education received $8 million, a tiny fraction of his proposal. When Agresto asked the U.S. Agency for International Development for 130,000 desks, he got 8,000.

"I really thought this would have been valuable money, well spent and sorely needed," he said. "We're not buying books for the libraries. We're not buying saws and nails for the technical institutes. We're not replacing the computers that were stolen. I can't be anything but sad about it."

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2001961810_iraqcolleges22.html

Q

Wally_in_Cincy
07-03-2004, 10:11 AM
This is an argument laid out by Mike McConnell, local radio talk show host who also has a nationwide show on Saturday afternoon.

Here is the conversation which would have had to have taken place.

Bush: Let's go to war with Iraq because they have WMD.

Rumsfeld: But Mr. President, Iraq does not have any WMD.

ColinPowell: Mr. President, if we go to war with Iraq we will not find WMD.

Bush: How long will it take for my lies to unravel?

Rumsfeld: Well Sir, I would guess if we don't find any WMD within the first 3 months the media and your political opponents will raise an incredible uproar.

Colin Powell: That's correct Sir. And just as everything heats up your re-election campaign will be starting up. The November election will be held after 18 months of searching for WMD and none being found, so I would guess your chances for re-election would be seriously diminished.

Bush: Well let's go to war anyway.

George Tenet: Excuse me Sir but may I suggest something? The CIA would have no problem planting WMD after the invasion in several places in Iraq. That way you would be covered.

Bush: Nah let's not do that. Let's just go to war.

**************************************

Do you really think Bush is that dumb? Do you think his aides Rice, Powell, Rumsfeld, and Tenet would have let him destroy his administration on a whim?

Are you aware that Tenet was so sure of the prescence of WMD that he told the President that finding them would be a "slam dunk"? That's why Tenet is unemployed now.

Wally_in_Cincy
07-03-2004, 10:13 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> ...of the $18.6 billion U.S. reconstruction package approved by Congress last year, higher education received $8 million...<hr /></blockquote>

I think it's more important right now to get the water flowing, get the electricity back on, and get the oil flowing.

Is this the best you got?

Wally &lt;~~ not surprised when Q changes the subject

Qtec
07-03-2004, 12:01 PM
Too easy. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Chemicals Not Found in Iraq Warheads


By Walter Pincus
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, July 3, 2004; Page A21


Sixteen rocket warheads found last week in south-central Iraq by Polish troops did not contain deadly chemicals, a coalition spokesman said yesterday, but U.S. and Polish officials agreed that insurgents loyal to former Iraqi president Saddam Hussein and foreign terrorist fighters are trying to buy such old weapons or purchase the services of Iraqi scientists who know how to make them.

The Coalition Press Information Center in Baghdad said in a statement yesterday that the 122-milimeter rocket rounds, which initially showed traces of sarin, "were all empty and tested negative for any type of chemicals." The statement came just hours after two senior Polish defense officials told reporters in Warsaw, based on preliminary reports, that the rocket rounds contained deadly sarin and that actions by the Polish unit in Iraq kept them from being purchased by militants fighting coalition forces.

Yesterday's coalition release also said that two other 122-milimeter rounds, found by the Poles on June 16 with help from an Iraqi informer, tested positive for small quantities of sarin but were "so deteriorated" that they would have had "limited to no impact if used by insurgents against coalition forces."




Q /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

crawdaddio
07-05-2004, 08:28 AM
I posted this over at AZ as well:

quote fox news(link above in highsea's post):
Dukaczewski refused to give any further details about the terrorists or the sellers of the munitions, saying only that his troops thwarted terrorists by purchasing the 17 rockets for a Soviet-era launcher and two mortar rounds containing the nerve agent for an undisclosed sum June 23.
...................The warheads all contained cyclosarin, multinational force commander Polish Gen. Mieczyslaw Bieniek said.
end quote.

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L02528495.htm (Reuters)
quote:
"Tests conducted showed that there was cyclosarin in the rocket heads," General Marek Dukaczewski, the head of army intelligence, told a news conference.

But the U.S. military said only two of the rockets had tested positive for sarin gas, and another 16 of the rockets found by the Poles had contained no chemical agents. The reason for the discrepancy in numbers was unclear.
....................Poland said in a statement from Iraq that "beyond doubt the shells were from the 1980-1988 period, of the type used against Kurds and during the Iraq-Iran war."

In Baghdad, the U.S. military issued a statement saying that two 122 mm rockets found by Polish forces had tested positive for sarin gas and confirmed that they were left over from the Iran-Iraq war, but said they posed little danger.
....................."Due to the deteriorated state of the rounds and small quantity of remaining agent, these rounds were determined to have limited to no impact if used by insurgents against Coalition Forces," the statement said.
....................The threat of weapons of mass destruction possessed by Saddam Hussein's now toppled regime was the main justification used by Washington to go to war against Iraq last year, but U.S.-led forces have only found small amounts of banned weapons.
end quote.
---------------------------------------------
Leave it to Fox "news" to misinform, misquote, exaggerate, and altogether screw a story up in an effort to keep the American people in fear, and in line.

Just thought you might like the actual story so you could make a more fair assessment of the situation.

Qtec
07-05-2004, 09:42 AM
I guess you didnt read my post.

Q

crawdaddio
07-05-2004, 10:13 AM
No I didn't see it, sorry. Just thought I'd add what information I had found.

highsea
07-05-2004, 10:28 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote crawdaddio:</font><hr> Leave it to Fox "news" to misinform, misquote, exaggerate, and altogether screw a story up in an effort to keep the American people in fear, and in line.

Just thought you might like the actual story so you could make a more fair assessment of the situation.<hr /></blockquote>

Just to be fair to Fox news, a couple of points. They were quoting the Polish General who made the announcement in Warsaw. The US CENTCOM press briefing came out the same day as the Fox News story, so they may not have had access to the briefing before their story was released.

Regardless, these were undisclosed munitions, in violation of the UN resolutions.

Also, since these have been popular by insurgents for IED's, it is still a good thing to get them in our hands, even if they are empty. US troops raided a bomb factory in Baghdad last week and confiscated 50lbs. of C4, among other things.

crawdaddio
07-05-2004, 11:37 AM
I agree, I'd rather have them in our hands than theirs. My main point is that they are not WMD's in the sense of posing any real danger to us or our troops.

highsea
07-05-2004, 12:20 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote crawdaddio:</font><hr> My main point is that they are not WMD's in the sense of posing any real danger to us or our troops. <hr /></blockquote> I don't know about that. We (as well as the Iraqis) have lost a lot of people to IED's. I call that a real danger. In addition to that, we're seeing rocket attacks almost daily.

If you read all of the info on this story (including the CENTCOM press release), you will see that the first 2 122mm. shells did have Sarin, though it was old and degraded. The other 16 came later, and were the empty ones.

There is a whole lot of unaccounted for CW's in the mid-east right now. Iraq's weapons programs were so cloaked in secrecy that even the Generals and probably Saddam himself did not know where everything was.

What we do know is that they were there at one time. What we don't know (and probably never will) is how much was destroyed, how much was hidden, and how much has left Iraq.

-CM