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View Full Version : Hey CC, That White Tip You Sent



Sid_Vicious
07-04-2004, 08:29 AM
That jump tip in super! I can't jump near as close as you do, but otherwise it was an improvement to the Stealth, a cue now modified three times(phenolic-Lucasi-"Whitie". What do you call that tip anyway? I plan on fitting it to a few breakers, JB cues especially I own. I'm thinking that they will soup up some jumper segments really well on those production BJ'ers Thanks for the gift buddy!!!sid~~~feels like he has two new cues now /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

stickman
07-04-2004, 09:06 AM
Hi Sid. I'm not CC, but this is the information you desire. http://ravencues.com/ I have two of the black ones, but after putting on the white one, I've never taken time to try a black one. Like you, I get spin easily enough. I use it for breaking also. I don't do the super short jumpers yet.

Jim

Chris Cass
07-04-2004, 10:35 AM
Hi Jim,

Thanks for posting that again for Sid. Raven also has a Blue one that you can get spin with and possible draw. The super close one has to be done with a totally flat tip. Well, atleast it was when I did it. I did it two out of three trys but the tip also popped off. That could have been the way the guy glued it on too.

For the money though, I wouldn't think of jumping that close a ball. Unless I was forced to. Even then, the ball would just get the hit and would only go straight. JAT

Thanks Sid and hope you like them for the break cue. I thought they didn't make a especially good break tip. Then again, I break like a girl. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Regards,

C.C.

Sid_Vicious
07-04-2004, 10:49 AM
"I thought they didn't make a especially good break tip."

I had Spidey move the bakelite tip previously on the Stealth to the Falcon I use for breaking...man what a difference! Funny thing is that it does not make that glass shattering sound like most all of the similiar tips do on custom breakers such as the Bungee and the Jerico, it has an almost invisible squeak and the CB is racing off to the pack. I've played with it some as a regular cue too and found I kinda like it, accidentally found out by forgetting to put the Falcon back after a break. I totally condone using these for dedicated break cues, unless you are a cut breaker. How whitie will work for breaking is going to be determined once I get these installed on other BJ cues I own, and that will be soon....sid~~~thinks the billiard supply industry has gotta love my new endeavors

Btw, one thing I really like about the Stealth now is the ease it gives in very slow hops. One thing I'd pass along to anyone learning to jump is to not try so hard. Too many people think that they have to "make" it jump. Let the cue do it's job and slow down, hit it with ease and flow, piece of cake. sv

Chris Cass
07-04-2004, 10:59 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Sid_Vicious:</font><hr> Btw, one thing I really like about the Stealth now is the ease it gives in very slow hops. One thing I'd pass along to anyone learning to jump is to not try so hard. Too many people think that they have to "make" it jump. Let the cue do it's job and slow down, hit it with ease and flow, piece of cake. sv <hr /></blockquote>

Great point Sid. So many people anticipate the shot so much it don't happen. This is great advice and I'll go the extra mile and say the same for the normal shooting of any ball.

Great stuff Sid,

C.C.

Sid_Vicious
07-04-2004, 11:06 AM
Stickman...I'm beginning to sound obsessed with this topic but I just now after breakfast took the jumper on my home table and lazily started hopping everything in sight in a machine gun fashion, high hops, gentle lift-over spins, everything imaginable, using not just the CB, pinging everything in reach, and it was so easy. For fun I set up myself blocked back toward a corner with a hanger setting in the opposite corner, going for the familiar 3-railer which requires follow inside running english off of the long rail. I ran out of gas the first time but was directly in line, and the second attempt was dead nuts...sid~~~no brag, just fact, and not promoting this as a required skill anyone should purposely need as such

http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/9egg/

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%Yr6N4%Zf3C1%[c8Z4%\s3O4%eC0`9%bI6V9%cG9W6%dE6X9
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Popcorn
07-04-2004, 11:57 AM
I use a phenolic tip on my jump cue and although I can jump a ball from one inch with a dozen tries I could care less. It will never come up and if it were, all that would happen is you would maybe make contact and lose anyway. It is interesting it can be done, but it is more important you be able to easily get over a ball from 4 or 5 inches to about 18 inches and do a little something with the cue ball if you want to. That will constitute 99.9% of all your jump shots. The 1 inch jump is just an exhibition shot, I would not make it the bench mark for a jump cue or tip. The bench mark should more be, 1. how easy can you get over the ball from 4 inches or so and 2. can I stop or even draw my cue ball if I wanted to. I don't care so much how close one can jump, but what real value would the shot be. Personally, in the 20 years or so I have been jumping, I learned it from Pat Fleming, when no one knew how to do it, I can't think of one time I tried to make a 1 inch jump in a match.

stickman
07-04-2004, 12:18 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Sid_Vicious:</font><hr> "I thought they didn't make a especially good break tip." <font color="blue"> I thought my new breaker was working very well. I've since decided that my breaking skills have vastly improved. I've used my shooting cue and found that I can break equally as well. I spent quite a bit of time working on my skills after installing my tip. I still intend to use the breaker, to minimize the additional wear on my shooting cue. I don't think you can hurt the Raven tips. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif</font color>

Btw, one thing I really like about the Stealth now is the ease it gives in very slow hops. One thing I'd pass along to anyone learning to jump is to not try so hard. Too many people think that they have to "make" it jump. Let the cue do it's job and slow down, hit it with ease and flow, piece of cake. sv <hr /></blockquote> <font color="blue"> Good advice. I had stopped jumping and sold my stealth. When I made my own jump/break, I had to learn all over again. Once I learned to loosen the grip and let the cue do the work on it's own, without "making" the cue push through the stroke, all was well. I jump everything in sight, I just have to work on the accuracy and finesse.</font color>

Rod
07-04-2004, 02:46 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Great point Sid. So many people anticipate the shot so much it don't happen. This is great advice and I'll go the extra mile and say the same for the normal shooting of any ball.

Great stuff Sid,

C.C.
<hr /></blockquote>

Yep, One can't express just how serious of an issue this really is. It's the one thing that prevents players, (I think) from reaching their potential. Hold it like a little humming bird. Read my tag line, lol Although it is not spelled out, the meaning is in there. Less effort is not strangling the cue. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

~~rod, doesn't choke the chiken, ha ha ha

Rod
07-04-2004, 03:17 PM
[ QUOTE ]
The 1 inch jump is just an exhibition shot, I would not make it the bench mark for a jump cue or tip. <hr /></blockquote>

Yep to me that is all it is. I agree totally with your post. Jumping only makes up a tiny percentage of the game. If you watch some players, they miss the long shots but yet some seem to think jumping is more important. Count how many long shots of various angles verses jump shots and there is the answer. Of course it should be compared to the total game for percentages. If two players, even pro, add their total percentages for each type of shot, jumps is near the bottom. Well unless one jumps everything. lol

There was a fad here for a while especially at one room. These guys could jump anything, some even closer than an inch. They couldn't make three friggen balls, let alone hit anything more than 1 rail.

The shaft jump was popular then to, but I never allowed it in any of my tournaments. Later on to be banned by Texas Express and other sanctioned body's.

What gets the dough is overall game. Jumps have a place but not at the expense of the above. I can jump well but I seldom have to use it.

Rod

Chris Cass
07-04-2004, 11:11 PM
Hi Rod,

I kick way better percentage wise than jumping, myself. I do jump when it's a must situation or I know I'll make the ball. Then again, I never just kick to hit a ball. I play to make it or leave it. I guess both times when it's needed I'll do whatever it takes.

Regards,

C.C.

crawdaddio
07-05-2004, 08:01 AM
I quit carrying my jump cue altogether because it seemed like I was always reaching for it any time I was blocked. Only a coupla months without it and my kicking game has greatly improved. I think too many people (at least around here) grab for the jumper too easily without even considering kicking safe or even kicking for the hole. It is much more satisfying for me to make that 3 rail kick through traffic to make a good hit and snooker my opponent (and watch his jaw drop). As most players know, especially with today's equipment, jumping a ball is almost too easy..................

Popcorn
07-05-2004, 08:42 AM
The jump shot is certainly a valuable shot but it is not always the best way. In most cases the player is at best going to just hope to make contact and avoid a ball in hand. With the jump shot there is little control where as with a kick shot there can often be a lot you can do. A player that jumps all the time may in fact be selling out when he didn't have to. I am not some purist, I like the jump shot and would not be without my jump cue, but you have to know when it is the right shot and when it is not. Someone whose first thought is to jump may not see there may be a better way. And if they are of the age that they have always used a jump cue, they may not even recognize the better ways you could kick a ball safe and so on.

I think the point of my first post may have been lost a little. My point was that in selecting a jump cue or tip and how you want it shaped, the ability to jump from one inch or so is not what should determine how you make the selection. It should be fine tuned ,if that is the right term, to what you will be doing with it most of the time.

crawdaddio
07-05-2004, 08:47 AM
I agree completely, jumping is a very valuable tool and should be used when the situation calls for it. I think a lot of people just get too caught up in how cool (they think, and I did at one time too) it makes them look to pull off that great jump shot.

woody_968
07-05-2004, 10:04 AM
I agree that at times the kick is a much better option, but how often thats the case depends on how well you jump (or how bad you kick). I have studied and practiced kicks for a long time, but would still say in many cases I have more control with a jump shot.

Its just like ya said, you have to be willing to look for the best option, not just go straight to the jump shot because you can.

Sid_Vicious
07-05-2004, 10:56 AM
"but how often thats the case depends on how well you jump (or how bad you kick)."


That explains my personal situation, I sellout far more than 50% of the time with anything more than a straight rail kick, and my opponents have known that for years and pick me to death with BIH fouls, but not after I learned to jump. Sure I'd like to say I had a kicking game, that facet of pool just never took with me for some troublesome reason, so I've perfected my jump shot, even to the point that I'll jump safe even have I see an open hit on one of my balls. For instance, here's a game of 8-ball.

http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/9egg/

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I'm stripes, and I don't want to disturb the cluster and open the other guy up. I'll call safe and hit that one ball with a soft toss over the threesome, giving the breakout back to the other guy. My hit percentage on that jump is probably close to 100%, but my kick trying to maintain control of the rock anything close to how'd I do by jumping, is miserable, that's just the way it is, my kicks suck! I simply made this selective safety example for the reason of showing what "I know I can do" with a jump versus what I'd probably fail at with many kick attempts, not bragging, simply shoring up one strength to relieve a shortcoming elsewhere.

Since I have adopted the jump shot I've gained leaps(pardon the pun) and bounds in reducing my BIH fouls. Many of the players who knew how to take advantage of my piss-poor kicking game now have a name for my jumper..."the witch stick", I kinda like that label myself...sid~~~too stubborn and old to learn kicks, besides the jump is cool, especially while the other guy is grumbling when you grab for the hopper ;-)

woody_968
07-05-2004, 11:39 AM
Sid, its funny when you mention other guys naming your jumper. Some of the guys in my local room dont like me using mine, because for them to get BIH they pretty much have to freeze me on the blocking ball.

They really like it when I jump a ball to make a kick shot on another ball /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Rod
07-05-2004, 02:24 PM
Jump cues aren't that versitle. Like you said just grabbing for it without thinking. Sometimes you might need to clear a ball but not by much. Other times maybe 1/2 ball or even a full ball. Depending on the distance hoppy may not be the right choice. If your going to jump, might as well do something with whitey. Nothing like a little weight to make whitey react. I have used light cues off the wall if I needed some draw in certain situations. It's not any harder to jump draw than just jumping over a ball depending on the distance. The heavier weight helps guide the cue. If I can jump with my playing cue, I will. Better think before we grab hoppy, there are better choices sometimes.

Rod

Sid_Vicious
07-06-2004, 07:54 AM
"It's not any harder to jump draw than just jumping over a ball depending on the distance. The heavier weight helps guide the cue"

The heavier weight issue crossed my mind yesterday following a comment a player had after trying my retro-fitted Stealth with the Raven tip, he said "The secret is in the cue. This is so light, that makes the performance." I silently disagreed and here's what I gauge my opinion on. I can still pick up the Lucasi, a much heavier JC by Stealth's standards and I move the CB a lot easier after the hit. It dawned on me that the versatility of the jumpers I own rank the Lucasi better(IMO) than the Stealth, and yet the Stealth makes air quicker but doesn't work the longer distance hops for follow-up position play quite as easy. I'm in a dedicated mode now with the Stealth just to make sure I'm not merely accustomed to the Lucasi in a biased way,,,time will tell. I used to simply jack up with my play cue for half ball jumps and do well, but I've seemingly lost much of that ability now since adopting the dart stroke, so it's usually a sellout for me to use a full length cue anymore.

Guess I'm in the middle of the road, and comparing different weighted JCs wasn't really what you meant by your statement above, still my personal experience with these things prompted me to post back on the issue.

Now before I get everyone's panties in a wad, I do understand that a jumper has to be light to be effective. I also think that there are extremes to anything, and that maybe a different jumper which happens to be heavier, may just balance out to be a more versatile jump tool in general when spin is needed, espesially follow, running english. The Stealth may out shine others in the short distance swerve shots, but it's my judgement that it doesn't rank with my other cue for power jumps needing whitie to travel to more that one rail after the hit...sid~~~admits he's ate up with the jump, but hey! it's damn fun, and that's what I need today, fun