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whojoedaddy
07-06-2004, 01:33 PM
I have been playing pool off and on for about 2 years. Well about a week ago I ran my first rack. Here is the thing though. I didn't use my normal stance. I had been playing with a stance I read in a book just after a started. With that stance I could run about 6-7 balls average. I have been messing around with another stance (more of a snooker stance I think ...) for about a year. I use it when I get in a rut and sometimes just to mess around, but never seriously. I always thought I played better with that stance, but I thought it was just that whole 'you change one thing and your game suddenly improves dramatically for 10 mins, but then your back to what you were' thing. I used that same stance in a game against another player, who the week before (with my previous stance) we were about even, and I ran the table a few times.

Needless to say, I'm keeping that stance. I find the previous stance made it hard to put my eye over the shaft and I was compensating by tilting it inward. It's kind of annoying that the stance I've been working with all this time is useless. I could have switched earlier and had better practices.

What do you guys/gals think?

Sid_Vicious
07-06-2004, 01:46 PM
I changed to the stance that CJ Wiley promotes, kind of a kin to the snooker players. His take is to have a solid foundation, one that you'd keep balance if somebody bumped you from any angle. I know there are many good players who do near 45 degrees, and even stiffen one or both legs, but I'd wager they would have been better sooner if they had done it CJ's way when learning. JM2C sid

Rod
07-06-2004, 02:15 PM
If I read this right, you squared up your stance and most likely got your dominant eye over the cue. I don't know if your head position changed since it can't be observed from here. lol I suspect you shoot with the same hand as your dominant eye. Others may [censored] their head with a more open stance to keep the cue between their eyes. Your vision knows what is best once you've aligned correct. Sounds like you made a good move. I did the same with another player a while back and his shot making improved Immediately. What ever it takes, many are never aligned right. Good Luck.

Rod

woody_968
07-06-2004, 03:01 PM
This is why it is sometimes good to see more than one instructor or read more than one book (not saying ya only read one book /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif ) But with all the different shapes and sizes of bodies, with different flexabilities and dominate eye setups, to think that there would be a "one stance fits all" out there would be thinking wrong /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I think there are certain things a stance must contain, such as ballance and proper alignment. But it must fit your body so that its comfortable and repeatable.

Sounds like ya made a good change /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

1a2b3c
07-06-2004, 05:14 PM
I think i play with a different stance for different shots. I also think thats part of a problem i need to sort out. Do the people who come from pro snooker to pro 9ball switch their stance? Ive always played snooker so i have a natural snooker stance but ive been messing around with some others that people say are good. My other stance i took from the book 99 Critical Shots in Pool. I usually switch to this stance when ive been drinking, it seems to help me concentrate when i know i am not or havent been.

Barbara
07-06-2004, 07:23 PM
FWIW,

I "unconsciously" started to change my stance from watching Karen Corr, Julie Kelly, and Kim Shaw only to find that I was making more problems for myself.

What happened was, in subconciously adopting this foward stance from watching snooker players, my right shoulder began to throb with pain within an hour's practice time.

The problem was, I was lining up left of center behind the CB with this snooker stance. Fran Crimi corrected me of this problem SIGHT UNSEEN! Nailed it right on the head when I mentioned it, Fran told me what to do, and DUH!!

Barbara

#### leonard
07-07-2004, 05:31 AM
God I miss Fran.####

wantsumrice
07-10-2004, 11:43 PM
What are the basics to a good stance?

I usually have my legs staggered, left foot nearest to the table and my right foot about 3-4 feet away from my left foot. I lean forward a lot, and have my chin almost touching the cue.

~ivan

Chris Cass
07-11-2004, 12:46 AM
When you head, elbow and bridge hand are all aligned.

C.C.

pooltchr
07-11-2004, 09:12 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chris Cass:</font><hr> When you head, elbow and bridge hand are all aligned.

C.C. <hr /></blockquote>
And you are well balances, stable, and comfortable!

Chris Cass
07-11-2004, 09:18 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chris Cass:</font><hr> When you head, elbow and bridge hand are all aligned.

C.C. <hr /></blockquote>
And you are well balances, stable, and comfortable! <hr /></blockquote>

And your socks match. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

C.C.~~ /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Rod
07-11-2004, 10:35 PM
And the cue goes no farther than the toes of your back foot. Feet don't cross the imaginary line. And I'm not wearing socks! lol

Chris Cass
07-11-2004, 10:57 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr> And the cue goes no farther than the toes of your back foot. Feet don't cross the imaginary line. And I'm not wearing socks! lol <hr /></blockquote>

And I'm naked at the keyboard. /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

HAHAHAHAHA C.C.

pooltchr
07-12-2004, 05:21 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chris Cass:</font><hr> And I'm naked at the keyboard. /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

HAHAHAHAHA C.C. <hr /></blockquote>

T.M.I. !!!!!!!!!! /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Chris Cass
07-12-2004, 06:34 AM
LOL Steve,

Hope you know I'm kidding. LOL

C.C.

Rod
07-12-2004, 11:16 AM
Well what I want to know is, where is whojoedaddy? One post to start the thread and he's out of here?? I never understand that part.

Rod

JayCee
07-12-2004, 08:17 PM
Chris,

Will you attempt to help me here? I'm right handed and when I align in a pool stance I undercut a majority of my shots, but when I align in the snooker or semi-snooker stance, I have a tendency to overcut most shots. I'm looking for a middle place so there's no over/under cutting.

I've been using center ball, so I don't believe there's any sidespin causing the problem unless there's a defect in my stroke .

Any suggestions?

Chris Cass
07-12-2004, 11:17 PM
Hi JayCee,

No offence but I'm not a qualified BCA instructor. I have no credentials and recommend you see someone that does. Keep in mind they do use video equipment.

Seeing how you asked for my opinion, I'll through .02 your way as I see it. First lets talk about bridge, stance and warm up stroke. When I was way younger I used to play in the bars for doe. Many times I've hidden any speed from many people. Much like the alcoholic hides his drunkeness to lets say a cop or a bartender.

I'd do this by altering my stances, stand my fist up and hold the thumb up to balance the cue, swap feet on shots, you name it. It was meant to portray a rec player that knows squat about shooting. The only thing that would ever give me away was the final stroke. If they were cleaver enough to watch my eye patterns than that would do it too.

Nowdays, nobody does that much and that's how it should be imho anyway. Lets say you have a solid pre-shot routine and everything was right on target. There's many things without seeing that could be a posibility but sight unseen I'd be willing to guess it is in your eye alignment.

Hence stance alignment, like you mentioned. I'd be willing to also say it's your dominate eye. Many will tell you that doesn't mean squat and they'd be right also for many. But not all. I'm guessing your too forward on your snooker stance and with the conventional your dominate eye is not directly over the cue. Not that that matters either. One can adjust to many things if entered into muscle memory.

The cue in the snooker stance is more under you and the other stance your right foot is most likely past the cue. My suggestion would be to align your left foot directly in line along with the brige, on the cue. The left toes just touching. Take your rear foot and place your toes 2" before the butt of the cue.

Let me show you on the WEI table. The 1 Ball is your left foot. The 2 Ball is your right. The line is your cuestick.
START(
%AS8N6%Ba8W6%OD8D6%PM1I8%YF7F0%Zg2Y4

)END
http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/pooltable2.html

Another way which is the same would be to align your cuestick in the air with the cb path to the ob' aimpoint. Step forward into the shot while lowering your cue down on the shot with your left foot directly in line, with the shaft. Then take and settle down into your stance and turn both feet(heals) slightly sideways till comfortable.

Your head should be aligned with the cue and if you look down? You should see where your feet are aligned and the rear foot is somewhat a couple inches from the cue.

The bridge needs to be solid. The stance doesn't have to be comfortable nor orthodox but it HAS to be balanced. So when you settle into your stance it should be comfortable. If you plan on being consistant for long periods of time. Even though your sight picture might feel off, the balls should go. If your properly aligned and your balance is good and most important. Your final stroke is let out straight and with no interruption between your final pause and delivery.

If you try this on a straight-in shot and follow through to the bed of the cloth. Look for the chalk lines after a couple of shots. Look for the chalk marks to go dead straight in a line. Any veiring or hooks at the end tells you your final stroke needs work.


Disclaimer:
This is strickly my SWAG method and can't be held accountable. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Regards,

C.C.~~don't be afraid to ask Scott, RandyG, Pooltcher(Steve), or any other of the fine qualified people here. They are very approachable. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif I do like the compliment though. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Rod
07-13-2004, 12:05 AM
The 9 is your head between your eyes. Might have to [censored] the head slightly.

START(
%AS8N6%Ba8W6%IR1L7%OD8D6%PM1I8%YF7F0%Zg2Y4

)END


This is your head on drugs!
START(
%AS8N6%Ba8W6%FQ1L1%GQ1L9%IR1L7%JR9L5%NR0K9%OD8D6%P M1I8%YF7F0
%Zg2Y4
)END

LOL, had to throw that last one in. Pretty wide stance there. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

pooltchr
07-13-2004, 05:22 AM
Chris,
As you stated, it's a tough call to make without being able to see it in person. But your guess is probably pretty close to being on the money.
Whenever you make a change to your stance, there is a possibility of altering the alingment elsewhere, most likely the head position which impacts the line of sight. It could be that with a different stance, the chin is not placed the same way over the cue, or even more likely, the head may even be tilted somewhat.
I think of the stance as being the foundation to everything. If you change the foundation of your house, everything else has to move with it to prevent major problems. Slight changes in stance can also be used to help correct alignment problems in other areas. When a major change is made, it's probably best to get an instructor to help make sure everything else has corrected accordingly. At the very least, set up a video camera and take a close look for yourself.
Good Post!
Steve

Chris Cass
07-13-2004, 08:14 AM
Thanks Steve,

You put it so well. Then again, I guess that's why you instruct. LOL It's so tough when trying to evaluate problems in ones basics without seeing what's going on. It could be many things as you say.

The only thing from hearing what I've read was that he definitely knows something is wrong and he knows the area in which to go to. I feel guy is an excellent canidate for an instructor. He's extremely teachable and I believe he would take full advantage of the instruction also. Saving himself money, time and has the ability to know how to correct any slumps he will have in the future.

After all, that's why seeing an instructors is so valuable. Gives you that starting point in your basics gives the shooter the knowledge of where to look and what to look for later. That's why the pre-shot routine is important where consistancy comes in. I think he may even had instructions in the past.

All this talk about instructors that can't play lights out means nothing to me. All the requirements are that the instructor knows what to look for and how to repair it. They do have to have the gift to put their thoughts into words that a student can understand. My hats off to all you guys.

Regards,

C.C.~~thanks Steve /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

JayCee
07-13-2004, 09:05 AM
Chris, Hello. It's me again. First, thank you for your respnse. Yes, I've had instruction before - I attended Cue Tech in Spring of 2002 and have met with Scott Lee twice in 2003. During my instruction, I don't recall any adjusments being made to my stance, or bridge at all. I was told my stance looks stable and was shown some bride variations based on the shot. This made me feel that nothing needed to be changed in my stance/alignment, but I later discovered differently.

While at my local pool hall, I saw one of the other players (righthanded) standing with his left leg up front facing the line of the shot and his right leg was in back and with toes pointed outward (towards 2 or 3 o'clock.) To me, this looked awkard, but he was making lots of shots and getting good position. So I asked him about his stance/alignment after seeing he had a decent stroke and was using very little sidespin. He proceeded to say you're properly aligned for your shots when your leg oppsite your shooting arm is in line with the shot.

I never tried it for a while b/c it looked funny, but one day I was desperate, what he said popped in my mind, so I tried it and "immediately" my shotmaking increased. I was so estatic thinking I had come across something to help my game. Then I was like well if this was the case, wouldn't I have learned this from the BCA instructors. Then came the very painful discovery, what helped me for a few weeks is no longer working. At this point, I didn't know what to do, nor or where to turn, so I left the pool hall and league and haven't been back. The desire is still there, but I've become totally overwhelmed with frustration. Sorry for the ramble, but it feels good letting it out with someone that could possibly help me. Please feel free to offer more suggestions.

Until next time,

JC