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View Full Version : Check this out! New WPBA format!



Barbara
07-12-2004, 12:20 PM
Well folks, the WPBA has changed a few things around for their upcoming Florida Classic (held the same week as the US Open /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif).

The changes are: (drum roll, please)

Once they're down to 16 players, it's single elimination.

There's going to be more TV coverage. The top 8 players will be on ESPN - four quarter finals, two semi-finals, and the final.

More prize money - over $105,000 with $15,000 going to the winner.

Okay, so you're asking how are they going to do the single elimination format. The 8 winners bracket players will remain in their position on the chart -- the 8 one-loss players will be randomly drawn into the 8 open positions, so it will be possible to draw into a player played before the redraw.

Wow. I hope this works out.

Scott Lee
07-12-2004, 12:26 PM
Barbara...Wow! This is great! More $$$, more tv exposure for the players...all in all, should be a fun tournament!

Scott

9 Ball Girl
07-12-2004, 12:30 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Barbara:</font><hr>
Once they're down to 16 players, it's single elimination.<hr /></blockquote> <font color="blue">This is one of those where we'll have to wait and see how that's going to work out. </font color>

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Barbara:</font><hr>There's going to be more TV coverage. The top 8 players will be on ESPN - four quarter finals, two semi-finals, and the final.<hr /></blockquote> <font color="blue">This I really, really like. Those matches are just as exciting as the ones that get to be televised. Not to mention that we'll get to see a lot of the up and comers! Woohoo! </font color>

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Barbara:</font><hr>More prize money - over $105,000 with $15,000 going to the winner.<hr /></blockquote> <font color="blue">How could anyone not like this? </font color> /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Barbara:</font><hr>Wow. I hope this works out. <hr /></blockquote> <font color="blue">Me too. </font color>

Rod
07-12-2004, 12:37 PM
Interesting, the one loss side ought to throw a little confusion to the viewers. Any idea on why the redraw? The time would be the same. The only thing I see is it could benefit the up comming women pro's. Regardless if it brings in more money and air time it's a good deal for all.

Rod

woody_968
07-12-2004, 12:39 PM
Glad to see it! Hope it all works out. I think the women are on the right track and starting to get more of the exposure that they deserve.

Wally_in_Cincy
07-12-2004, 12:53 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Barbara:</font><hr> Once they're down to 16 players, it's single elimination.

<font color="blue">aka "modified double elimination", don't like it, never will, not fair to the top 8 winners. But I guess it will work out OK. </font color>

There's going to be more TV coverage. The top 8 players will be on ESPN - four quarter finals, two semi-finals, and the final.

<font color="blue">This is mucho excellent. New faces are needed. And fewer reruns. Thumbs-up. The quality of play may slip a bit but it should be fun.

Jennifer Barretta's fashion consulting prowess may be in great demand in Florida. </font color>

<hr /></blockquote>

Barbara
07-12-2004, 01:18 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr> <font color="blue">aka "modified double elimination", don't like it, never will, not fair to the top 8 winners. But I guess it will work out OK. </font color> <hr /></blockquote>

You know Wally, it's kind of like having a win taken away from you. I wouldn't be too crazy about it, either.

Barbara

Barbara
07-12-2004, 01:21 PM
Rod,

They're going to play down to the final 8 on both sides of the chart, then redraw the 8 on the one-loss side to play the 8 on the winners side. The 8 on the winners side don't move in their position on the chart.

Barbara~~~it's gonna be interesting...

Rod
07-12-2004, 01:43 PM
Barbara,

Yes, I knew that was the case. It should be interesting. We will see some of the women that get close. Change of the normal faces is good. Although the play may be a bit down or lopsided at times, I think it still will be interesting.

Rod, vertically challenged, lol

woody_968
07-12-2004, 01:46 PM
Are they still seeding the top players at the start of the brackets?

Barbara
07-12-2004, 01:53 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote woody_968:</font><hr> Are they still seeding the top players at the start of the brackets? <hr /></blockquote>

Woody,

What I believe they still do, although Sarah Rousey can confirm this, is they seed the top 16 players so that they don't match up to each other for a round or two.

Sarah? You out there?

Barbara

Rod
07-12-2004, 02:37 PM
It seems to me seeding is a given in this format. However I could be wrong.

rod, has been wrong

Jimmy B
07-12-2004, 03:27 PM
I think there is a chance to see some good semi final matches and maybe not Alison and Karen in every final, thus a not so good match. I think it will force the top girls to keep focus, losing an early match can now cost you big time. Sometimes change is good.

JB

DeannaMichelle
07-12-2004, 04:44 PM
Oooh, looks like a plan to me. It could cause a little ruffling of feathers, and I like it..I like it a lot!(:
haha..we'll see if it works, as others have said.

I'm excited about more tv exposure-- I'd like to see matches other than the semi and final matches...I don't get to see other players, that aren't televised as much, and I'd definately like to, because I know they have things to offer as well, that we can see just from seeing it on tv.

Dea

Sid_Vicious
07-12-2004, 09:13 PM
"is they seed the top 16 players so that they don't match up to each other for a round or two."

I've had this explained here on this board as to the supposed logic, but it somehow hits me as unreasonable that the strong players are sheltered from seeing one another for entire rounds. Maybe it's just me, but I'd find value in seeing someone in the top 16 capatilize on say an early mistake from even Alison, and have them go down. It seems unfair in my way of thinking to give the 16 the rest time with no dangers.

Explain to me again why this is done this way. Is it merely a present to the top players to make this buffer keeping them from going head to head and getting the regular rations of grief, like everyone else????sid

DeannaMichelle
07-12-2004, 10:11 PM
hmm. never thought of that.
actually, now i'm confused!

SRpool
07-13-2004, 02:33 AM
Hey guys,

I'm really not sure how the seeding is going to work. My impression was that there will be no seeding for the redraw. There was a warning about possibly playing the person you just played. In my opinion that means it will be a random draw. I could be crazy though!

I think the change will be good for the tv viewers. There will be new faces for the world to see.

Take care,
Sarah

Rich R.
07-13-2004, 03:52 AM
I couldn't be happier about more TV coverage and the chance to see some new faces in the spot light. Joe Public will get a chance to see that there are more than 5 women in the world playing pool. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

More money is always good for the players. No argument there. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

As for the format, I have mixed feelings.
On one hand, it will certainly give us the opportunity to see some other players.
On the other hand, for a player in the top eight, on the winners side, it takes away the benefit of continuing on, after one bad match. Although this may knock out some of the top players, earlier than expected, it could also spoil a very good finish, for an up and comer.
I will have to take the wait and see approach. /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

pooltchr
07-13-2004, 05:36 AM
I like it all except the "modified double-elimination" part. I never liked changes in the middle of an event. It somehow has to give an advantage so some players and not others. They do something similar in our APA city event, where if you lose early, you get an extra life, but if you lose later, you're toast.
If they want to see new faces in the finals, do away with seading, make it single elim...and then watch the fireworks!

Barbara
07-13-2004, 07:13 AM
Sarah,

Can you explain how the top 16 players are seeded when the chart is drawn? I was under the impression that they were spaced apart from each other so that they wouldn't match up until the 3rd round.

Barbara

Sid_Vicious
07-13-2004, 07:15 AM
If I haven't said it yet,,,I like your tag line...sid

BLACKHEART
07-13-2004, 09:12 AM
Why should the bottom 1/2 of the draw, continually support the top 1/2? There are certainly some weaker players in the 9th through 16th positions, that could have an early exit if they had harder matches in the 1st round &amp; had to go to the losers side. If there weren't any seeding, spectators wouldn't wait till Saturday &amp; Sunday to come &amp; watch. I think it would be good for the game &amp; for the WPBA to NOT seed players...JER

Barbara
07-13-2004, 09:30 AM
I totally agree with you, JER. And people wonder why we see the same faces in the semis and finals.

Barbara

woody_968
07-13-2004, 09:53 AM
I totally agree JER! I found out they were doing this a while back when one of my friends was trying to get on tour. I think the womens tour is doing a great job, but this is one thing that should be changed. Maybe in the start they wanted to try to keep the big names in the finals for tv coverage (hopefully not to keep the top 16 in the money /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif ) but their tour has made such a move I dont think this would be needed anymore.

Was it last years Open that a qualifier made it to the finals? Who could say that match wasnt exciting?

Give all players the same chance - stop the seeding /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Barbara
07-13-2004, 10:18 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote woody_968:</font><hr>
Was it last years Open that a qualifier made it to the finals? Who could say that match wasnt exciting?

<font color="blue">Yep! It was Ga Young Kim.</font color>

Give all players the same chance - stop the seeding /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue">Ditto!!</font color>

Barbara

Wally_in_Cincy
07-13-2004, 10:19 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote woody_968:</font><hr> ...Give all players the same chance - stop the seeding /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif <hr /></blockquote>

I think the status quo is not too bad. No need to rush into non-seeding.

If you recall about a year ago they had a 48 player field and the top 16 got an automatic bye in the first round.

At least now the field is 64 with no automatic byes and alternating breaks. I like that much better.

Mr Ingrate
07-13-2004, 10:55 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Sid_Vicious:</font><hr> Explain to me again why this is done this way. Is it merely a present to the top players to make this buffer keeping them from going head to head and getting the regular rations of grief, like everyone else????sid <hr /></blockquote>
Sid,

The case for seeding is easier to make for single elimination events. In double elimination the marque' players have a second chance to continue if they stumble.
Any time you have sponsor's money and single elimination, you will have seeding.

Tennis is a prime example. Because of the money involved, the sponsors want to have their players given the chance to go as far as possible in any event. Also, the prices vary for seating, what the networks will pay for broadcast rights, and what they can charge for commercials. Joe public won't be tuning in unless you have at least some of the big name players in the finals.

SRpool
07-13-2004, 01:58 PM
Barbara,

I will take a stab at explaining the seeding. The top 8 are strategically spaced. They can't meet another top 8 ranked player for three rounds. Players 9-16 are spaced out so they cannot play another top 16 player for two rounds. Players 17-32 are filled in the other spots. They cannot play another ranked pro until the second round. Kind of confusing huh?

Take care,
Sarah

BLACKHEART
07-13-2004, 06:11 PM
/ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gifSarah, it doesn't sound confusing at all. However, it does sound like a qualifier is still is paying her $500 to guarantee the top players, will have a real advantage to make money. If this were a guys organization we'd be callin' it "The good ol' boys" club. Don't get me wrong the WPBA have done a very good job of promoting themselves AND our sport. That doesn't mean that the public is not getting tired of seeing the same ol' faces week after week. Hell I follow womens pool VERY closely &amp; even I can't tell if I've seen a match before or not because they all look alike...JER

SRpool
07-13-2004, 06:44 PM
I agree Jer. I'm really not a big fan of the seeding either. I thought things would change when I was seeded but it really hasn't. I think it would change things if Karen and Allison or Jeanette and Helena had to play first round. Right now I think they keep the best interest of the viewers in mind. They want to guarantee that the best players make it to the rounds that millions of people see. Will it change? Who knows. The seeding is a privelege for the ranked players. It is supposed to make the others work hard to become a ranked player. As for not being able to tell the matches apart, that is why we have gone to changing the color of the cloth and changing the table each tournament. It is virtually the only way to tell the difference. Hopefully some of the players ranked a little lower will break through soon. I know we are all trying very hard.

Take care,
Sarah

woody_968
07-13-2004, 11:07 PM
SRpool, do you think the fact that they seed makes it a little harder for others to break into the ranks?

SRpool
07-14-2004, 03:14 AM
Woody, I think that the seeding may have something to do with it. But I also believe that you eventually have to beat the best anyway, whether it is seeded or not. I think if the tournaments were not seeded it would leave some openings for players to kind of "squeek" through. One half of the bracket may be tougher than the other half.

Just my opinion,
Sarah

BLACKHEART
07-14-2004, 09:09 AM
I'm geussin' that the average tournament, with travel,hotel &amp; meals costs most players about $1200-$1500 a week. This includes the $500 entry fee. That's a lot to ask someone to pay week in &amp; week out just to go 2 &amp; out...JER

canwin
07-14-2004, 09:57 AM
I agree with BLACKHEART. For whatever reasons/excuses you can give for "seeding", the bottom line is that it is an unfair advantage for the rest of the players. It's kind of like allowing certain players to take performance enhancing drugs before a competition. This organization lacks credibility for this reason. canwin

Barbara
07-14-2004, 05:03 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SRpool:</font><hr> Barbara,

I will take a stab at explaining the seeding. The top 8 are strategically spaced. They can't meet another top 8 ranked player for three rounds. Players 9-16 are spaced out so they cannot play another top 16 player for two rounds. Players 17-32 are filled in the other spots. They cannot play another ranked pro until the second round. Kind of confusing huh?

Take care,
Sarah <hr /></blockquote>

Sarah,

More like "unkind to everyone else playing". What ever happened to a pure blind draw?

No, it's really not confusing when you've drawn a bunch of tournament fields. I can see what Steve Tipton's doing and where the seedings go.

So the big Q is, is this WPBA policy on tournies?

Barbara

SRpool
07-15-2004, 03:19 AM
Well, I guess it is a bit unfair. I'm not sure if it will ever change. I guess I am unclear what you mean by the WPBA policy. I know that the seeding has been done for quite some time. In my first tournament there were 48 players and the top 16 got an automatic bye. Then my next tournament was the first tournament with 64 players. That caused somewhat of an uproar because the byes were gone. Then after 4 tournaments we went to the "multiple bye" format. I guess all of the change proves that there could be some hope for changing to a blind draw format. It all depends on what the board agrees on.

Take care,
Sarah

canwin
07-15-2004, 06:17 AM
Sponsors generally don't do things out of the goodness of their heart. Sponsors put up the money for certain players and events and they want to get the most for it and they want whoever they are sponsoring to win. Seeding,(manipulating the draw), gives their player promoted products more exposure (TV rounds and advertisement) thus more exposure(money) for the sponsor. I think that the WPBA keeps the interest of the sponsors in mind for this reason and manipulating the draw is a reflection of this. It would be interesting to see a fair playing field and see how the talent stands on its own. canwin

pooltchr
07-15-2004, 06:24 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote canwin:</font><hr> Sponsors generally don't do things out of the goodness of their heart. Sponsors put up the money for certain players and events and they want to get the most for it and they want whoever they are sponsoring to win. Seeding,(manipulating the draw), gives their player promoted products more exposure (TV rounds and advertisement) thus more exposure(money) for the sponsor. I think that the WPBA keeps the interest of the sponsors in mind for this reason and manipulating the draw is a reflection of this. It would be interesting to see a fair playing field and see how the talent stands on its own. canwin
<hr /></blockquote>

It might just turn out that with a variety of faces finishing up in the tv matches, that more players might be able to bring in more sponsorship...better for the players, and better for the sport.
Just a thought...

woody_968
07-15-2004, 07:56 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SRpool:</font><hr> It all depends on what the board agrees on.

Take care,
Sarah <hr /></blockquote>

Is the board made up of players? If so, how many of them are already in the top 16?

Thanks for all the info, this is something I have wondered about for a long time.

SRpool
07-16-2004, 03:00 AM
Woody,

Right now there are no top 16 board members. Ewa is very close to top 16 and she is the president. Other players that are on the board are mostly just part time players, Vicki Paski, Sheri Stauch. Other board members are not players.

Sarah