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Mark Avlon
07-14-2004, 11:42 PM
It saddens me deeply to watch another rift in the pool community. There is absolutely no need to rip apart the BCA referee program. There has been a lot of hard work building the referee program and it's staff into a very professional group that adds a lot of value to tournaments.

The consensus of the referees at the BCA Nationals was to explore a separate entity that would keep the referee program together. An entity that is separate from any league organization that would provide their services to tournaments produced by any group. Mark Griffin supports this goal. I'm sure the players would support this goal. I'm very disappointed that the staff at the ACS does not.

Again, it's the players that will suffer. The players need to stand up and voice their opinion. I strongly encourage every player to call or email (list below) the ACS board and ask them to support a new separate entity for the referees.

Let's see if the ACS is really for the players!

Mark Avlon
BCA National Referee

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Chris Cass
07-15-2004, 05:56 AM
Mark,

For the life of me, what are you talking about? I would think they would. Why does this BCA/ACS controvercy continue? In my area which is the largest league operation in the U.S. (I think?) doesn't slam the BCA even though it's ACS country.

I say this because I've been to the meetings forming the ACS league out here. They offered a chance also to have a BCA league. They needed 30 people to qualify a sanctioned BCA league but we couldn't get them. I was one that wanted to do both BCA and ACS.

Is this something new I'm hearing? Please, something in writing posted or atleast something as to what your bringing up. I'm an open minded person and I'm all ears. I like the BCA and even though, I'm now participating in the ACS. I as a participant am a bit on the fence as to what will happen in the ACS. I don't have anything against the BCA or Mark Griffin. I know where Marks heart is and that's for the players. Sure, it's nice also to have a Diamond in every event for him but that's not a bad thing, only normal.

Is the ref program being rejected by the ACS? If it is a separate entity then, where can I complain? Who's ever in charge of these refs and their staff should give these refs more money. These refs are often under paid for the travel and costs that's beyond reasonable. IMHO Also, too many times their paying out of pocket for too much. I wonder why they even do it.

Help me to understand Mark. Why does this have to be a ACS war? As a player and a person that works for Dwaine Bowman I will tell you. I could care less about anything but pool. I know Dwaine has been promoting tournaments and pool for 27 yrs. Some think it's all about his kids. Some also say Mark is all about Diamond tables. I say, it's all about us, the players for both know we are the meat. Who cares about the potato? We players like the ref program and feel they should be compensated for their hard work. I feel they need a ref program for every event and we need more refs to be honest. I know Dwaine and Mark don't exactly see eye to eye but I could care less about that either. I know they both want what's best for pool.

Regards,

C.C.~~ /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Barbara
07-15-2004, 07:38 AM
Chris,

I have no idea what's going to happen with the Referee Program that the BCA established, but I was contacted by snail mail and email to join the ACS as a referee. Now, I have no idea what the ramifications would be if I were to do this. Would I not be able to also join the BCA as well? Their membership letter did not mention any of this.

But what really is not right here is that I never gave any personal information (my addresses) to the ACS. Where did they get them from? As far as I'm concerned, the ACS stole proprietary information from the BCA.

And like Mark says, I would like to see the Referee Program become a separate organization that has no affiliation with either the BCA or ACS leagues, but works with both at their events.

Barbara

SPetty
07-15-2004, 10:39 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Barbara:</font><hr> But what really is not right here is that I never gave any personal information (my addresses) to the ACS. Where did they get them from? As far as I'm concerned, the ACS stole proprietary information from the BCA.<hr /></blockquote>They probably took it when they left the BCA. The ACS are the people who used to work for the BCA before the BCA sold the League Operations to Griffin. They got upset with that, so split off to form their own ACS, since the BCA no longer needed them.

Barbara
07-15-2004, 10:57 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SPetty:</font><hr> They probably took it when they left the BCA. The ACS are the people who used to work for the BCA before the BCA sold the League Operations to Griffin. They got upset with that, so split off to form their own ACS, since the BCA no longer needed them. <hr /></blockquote>

I'm sure that's the case, but the ACS had no right to do that. It was proprietary property of the BCA.

Barbara

Rich R.
07-15-2004, 11:35 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Barbara:</font><hr>I'm sure that's the case, but the ACS had no right to do that. It was proprietary property of the BCA.
<hr /></blockquote>
Barbara, I think you are absolutely right.

I also have to wonder if they violated any of your legal rights, by taking your personal information from the BCA. You gave that information to the BCA in confidence.

At the very least, I believe they would be guilty of stealing that information, from the BCA.

Barbara
07-15-2004, 12:23 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rich R.:</font><hr> Barbara, I think you are absolutely right.

I also have to wonder if they violated any of your legal rights, by taking your personal information from the BCA. You gave that information to the BCA in confidence.

At the very least, I believe they would be guilty of stealing that information, from the BCA. <hr /></blockquote>

You know Rich, that's something Mark Griffin should also pursue.

And yes, by the definition of "proprietary", they violated my personal rights by taking information about me that I did not give persmission to be given to the ACS.

Barbara

Mark Avlon
07-15-2004, 12:50 PM
Sorry, I should have given a little background.

Cecil Messer headed the BCA referree program. As you may know, Cecil was fired by the BCA before the sale of the league program and the referee program. Both programs were sold to Mark Griffin. He has promised to support the referee program and has also suggested that the referee program be a separate entity. Cecil claims that the referee program is his and not the BCA’s. Not all referees have the same opinion on the ownership of the referee program as Cecil does. He is currently trying to recruit the BCA referees to join his referee program, which is under the ACS. Unfortunately, some referees are being persuaded to join the ACS referee program and seem to have forgotten the goal of a separate organization.

ChrisW
07-15-2004, 02:35 PM
So who is at fault?
BCA for letting (or giving)the information out of their possession
or
ACS for excepting (or taking) information they did not acquire legally.

pooltchr
07-15-2004, 04:39 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote ChrisW:</font><hr> So who is at fault?
BCA for letting (or giving)the information out of their possession
or
ACS for excepting (or taking) information they did not acquire legally.

<hr /></blockquote>

I would doubt very seriously the BCA would give this information out, especially considering the problems that exist between these two groups.

Harold Acosta
07-15-2004, 09:14 PM
Barbara:

Didnt the BCA website have a list of all the referees with their phone numbers and addresses? I remember seeing one.

If I am correct, then the ACS did not steal propriety information. It was there for the public to see.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Harold - President
Puerto Rican Billiard Federation

Chris Cass
07-15-2004, 10:43 PM
Hi Barbara,

I'm going to have to ask a few questions of my own on the this subject. I wonder what some might say. I'll let you know.

Regards,

C.C.~~looking out for my buddy.

Chris Cass
07-15-2004, 10:48 PM
Ok Mark,

Thanks for the insite. Cecil does think he's the $hit, I agree. I've met him and he appeared that way for my first impression. I don't know more than you on the subject but as far as a players perspective. I believe, I want the ref program to be separate also. I would like to see them both BCA and ACS get along. There's enough of us players but hurt us and it's curtins. LOL

Regards,

C.C.~~has many questions now....????

Barbara
07-16-2004, 08:14 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Harold Acosta:</font><hr> Barbara:

Didnt the BCA website have a list of all the referees with their phone numbers and addresses? I remember seeing one.

<font color="blue">Yep, that's true, they did post that so a tournament director who needed a Ref could see if there was one in the area.</font color>

If I am correct, then the ACS did not steal propriety information. It was there for the public to see.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

<font color="blue">Nope, you're right, Harold. thanks for the input!</font color>

Harold - President
Puerto Rican Billiard Federation <hr /></blockquote>

Barbara