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drawshot
07-23-2004, 01:51 AM
Any one know if there is any disadvantages to really light weight cues? Such as 17oz...

PoOn
07-23-2004, 02:29 AM
i don't think there are any advantages or disadvantages of the weight of the cue as long as it feel right to you and you can move the rock around with it... for different people different weights help them have more control of the CB... if you like using a 17 oz and it works for you stick with it...

BeanDiesel
07-23-2004, 02:49 AM
u'll have to strike the cb with faster stroke than u do with a heavier cue to achieve the same cb speed struck by the heavier one. but it will be easier to slow roll with a lighter cue. u'll have to try different cue weight to figure out what fits u best.

Jimmy B
07-23-2004, 03:05 AM
I think it's a common belief that a heavier cue helps keep your stroke straight. Seems with a very light cue you get more side to side movement, jitters and shakes effect the cue more. I'm not sure I believe it, but I've always heard this.

JB

buddha162
07-23-2004, 03:09 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Jimmy B:</font><hr> I think it's a common belief that a heavier cue helps keep your stroke straight. Seems with a very light cue you get more side to side movement, jitters and shakes effect the cue more. I'm not sure I believe it, but I've always heard this.

JB <hr /></blockquote>

That makes sense. I've noticed that I can play with a lighter cue (18.5-19oz) only if I'm in dead stroke. Most of the time, 19.5 works for me, especially when I'm stuck on the rail.

-Roger

ABChad
07-23-2004, 11:50 AM
There IS a disadvantage to a lighter cue, and to a really heavy cue as well! The whole game is about physics right? How much does a CB weigh? What about the rack? The goal is to efficiently move a 6oz object with drag across a surface to strike another ball weighing 6oz. Go ahead and do all of the math if you like, or listen to the outcome.

So the ideal weight for a cue is slightly over three times the weight of the rock (remember it's 6 oz). So imagine for a second that an 18.5 oz cue is ideal. Remember the good old formula:
FORCE = MASS * ACCELERATION
If you make a cue lighter than 18.5 oz, you have to expend more energy (increased acceleration = harder stroke) to move the CB the same distance. The problem with this is that the harder you stroke, the less accurate you are.

So what about a heavier cue? Well, now the opposite holds true. Since you are increasing the moving mass, you really have to fine tune your speed. Slow rolls and finesse shots become incresingly more difficult, but you should be able to "hit harder." Don't confuse what I'm saying, however, the formulae used to devise this weight are different than that of a break shot. So don't think that I said a heavier cue will break better because it hits harder, that's another lesson!

So the break down is this... what's your strategy? Are you a finesse player or a banger? Do you play 9-ball or 14.1? Are you a touch shot or a dead stroke? These are the questions you have to ask yourself in order to properly determine what weight will work best for you.
Just remember...
lighter = less accurate shot path
heavier = decreased speed control (and usually out of control CB!);)

Cueless Joey
07-23-2004, 11:56 AM
It's more difficult to keep a light cue in line b/c it has less feel.
The cue after all should teeter between your bridge and your grip.
Also, on some shots, you have no choice but to let the cue fly like on snip or snap draw. Heavier cues do better on those shots imo.
I find people who like light cues are the elbow droppers.
Some do it very well, but most don't imo.

Malice
07-23-2004, 11:12 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote ABChad:</font><hr>
FORCE = MASS * ACCELERATION
<hr /></blockquote>

I belive that's

(mass x velocity 2)/2

(velocity being squared)

Frank_Glenn
07-24-2004, 05:45 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Malice:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote ABChad:</font><hr>
FORCE = MASS * ACCELERATION
<hr /></blockquote>

I belive that's

(mass x velocity 2)/2

(velocity being squared)

<hr /></blockquote>

Stop! You're both right.

Popcorn
07-24-2004, 08:09 AM
I would not recommend cue that is too light but some world class billiard players use cues as light as 15 and 16 ounces

tateuts
07-24-2004, 07:27 PM
It seems like there is a trend toward lighter and lighter cues. My own is only 18.3 ounces and it's spread over 60". I know some amazingly good players who use 17 ounce cues. I believe that 17 ounces would be fine for most players if they just gave it some adjustment time. Other factors, like shaft taper, tip diameter, overall stiffness and balance are far more important that weight.

However, I will say that if can't really feel the cue when you're stroking it, it's probably too light for you.

Chris

ABChad
07-26-2004, 08:23 AM
Malice-

(Mass x velocity^2)/2 would be correct if you assume you already know the velocity of the CB. Since I was looking at the force of the impact of the cue, the most relevant formula is F = M x A.

RedHell
07-26-2004, 09:04 AM
ABChad,

Just want to ask that... the fact that you are holding the cue at the time, would that increase your masse ? When you think about it, your arm is part of the cue, in movement and won't stop on impact, worse you're even adding more force to it by keeping pushing to follow thru ???

So my next question should be, what is the mass of your arm ? I don't know but it has to be in pounds not onces... So at the end how much does the 3 onces difference between 16oz and the 19oz cues affects the result of your calculation ?!?!?!

Just asking, I'ain't no scientist !!!

SpiderMan
07-26-2004, 12:03 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote RedHell:</font><hr> ABChad,

Just want to ask that... the fact that you are holding the cue at the time, would that increase your masse ? When you think about it, your arm is part of the cue, in movement and won't stop on impact, worse you're even adding more force to it by keeping pushing to follow thru ???

So my next question should be, what is the mass of your arm ? I don't know but it has to be in pounds not onces... So at the end how much does the 3 onces difference between 16oz and the 19oz cues affects the result of your calculation ?!?!?!

Just asking, I'ain't no scientist !!! <hr /></blockquote>

I believe that the duration time of the contact between cue ball and tip is short enough that the arm/body mass doesn't have much influence. Since the arm mass is not rigidly linked to the cue (only through skin and flesh), the contact has already ended while the cue is moving more or less independent of the hand.

Similar logic could be applied to the effect of following through. An instant after contact, the cue ball is moving faster than the tip and has moved away. If you re-accelerated the stick quickly enough to "catch up", it would be a double-hit foul anyway.

SpiderMan

ABChad
07-26-2004, 03:47 PM
Spidey-

You hit it dead on! The mass of your arm/hand IS irrelevant in this equation. In this example, your arm should be nothing more than a pendulum. If we take the physics of pool to the next level, THEN we start getting into drag coefficients, pendular weights, etc... too messy for simple conversation.

Malice
07-26-2004, 05:10 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote ABChad:</font><hr> Malice-

(Mass x velocity^2)/2 would be correct if you assume you already know the velocity of the CB. Since I was looking at the force of the impact of the cue, the most relevant formula is F = M x A.
<hr /></blockquote>

Now I'm really confused.

By "force", do you mean kinetic energy?

If one does not know the velocity of the CB, does it really matter? We know from physics that with kinetic energy, velocity is squared, and mass is not. So the energy for any moving object is influenced more by speed rather than mass.

How is it that force (when speaking of the cue stick) does not abide by the same laws as force (when speaking of the cueball)?

Not trying to pick a fight here; I just don't understand what you mean. I would think that the impact really revolves on whether or not a lighter cue can be moved faster. If a 10% lighter cue can be swung 10% faster, then of course the impact will be greater. But I doubt a few ounces is significant enough to be measurable.

BeanDiesel
07-26-2004, 05:53 PM
i did a little comparison which is relevant to this discussion.
it's here.
http://www.billiardsdigest.com/ccboard/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Board=ccb&amp;Number=126786&amp;Forum=Al l_Forums&amp;Words=BeanDiesel&amp;Match=Username&amp;Searchpag e=1&amp;Limit=25&amp;Old=allposts&amp;Main=125575&amp;Search=true# Post126786

ABChad
07-27-2004, 11:57 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Malice:</font><hr>

Not trying to pick a fight here; I just don't understand what you mean. I would think that the impact really revolves on whether or not a lighter cue can be moved faster. If a 10% lighter cue can be swung 10% faster, then of course the impact will be greater. But I doubt a few ounces is significant enough to be measurable.

<hr /></blockquote>
Malice-

The point here was not to argue the laws of physics, but to easily explain a fundamental relevant to billiards. The point being made is that you DON'T want to accelerate faster with your cue because this gives more room for human error. As the stroke strength (or acceleration) is increased, accuracy decreases. If you don't believe this, try it yourself! Take the same shot repeatedly, preferably diagonally across a full size table. The distance will emphasize the object ball's path. Try taking this shot 20 times at a medium stroke. Now try 20 times as hard as you can. After running through this experiment several times, you will see what I am refering to. Your accuracy percentage will almost always be higher at a medium stroke!

The point is not to have to cream the CB with every shot. You want to find a balance that works for you. Some players may be able to "power" the ball instead of finesse it. This explains why different weights work welll for different people... we all have a different stroke.. (please no wise cracks about "Different Strokes")LOL /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Rod
07-27-2004, 12:44 PM
I agree, the best players in the world are going to be more accurate with a slower stroke. Playing within your limitations wins games, not seeing how hard you can whack em.

Rod

Rod
07-27-2004, 01:06 PM
The reason cues come in different weights is it feels comfortable for you to swing. Heavy emphasis on swing, not force. Lighter doesn't mean better.

Another reason is the game played. You don't need a heavy cue to play snooker, the object balls are smaller and weigh less. A lighter will make the c/b react as well or better. It's your own rythum and timing that dictates cue weight and accuracy within any given game.

Rod

pooltchr
07-27-2004, 01:15 PM
I think I will weigh in on this one (Pun Intended) /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

I used to think a heavier cue was better to break with.

Then I tried the theory that a lighter cue accellerates faster, so that must be better.

I've finally come to the conclusion that the cue that is most comfortable is the correct weight. That's why my break cue is now the same weight at the cue I shoot with. I don't have to adjust to it.

JMHO
Steve

poolplayer1988
07-27-2004, 02:52 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr> I think I will weigh in on this one (Pun Intended) /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

I used to think a heavier cue was better to break with.

Then I tried the theory that a lighter cue accellerates faster, so that must be better.

I've finally come to the conclusion that the cue that is most comfortable is the correct weight. That's why my break cue is now the same weight at the cue I shoot with. I don't have to adjust to it.

JMHO
Steve <hr /></blockquote>

I agree with Steve on this one about different weight shooting and breaking cues. I used to use a 22 oz. cue to break with, but I've learned that a lighter cue will accelerate faster through the cueball and give the cue ball more speed and velocity as it travels towards the rack. Now, I use a breaking cue that is the exact same weight as my shooting cue so that I don't have to adjust to different weights and such. To me, faster stroke speed = faster cueball speed = harder break. JMO

Doug Talbot
"the White Elephant"

rah
07-29-2004, 10:08 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Jimmy B:</font><hr> I think it's a common belief that a heavier cue helps keep your stroke straight. Seems with a very light cue you get more side to side movement, jitters and shakes effect the cue more. I'm not sure I believe it, but I've always heard this.

JB <hr /></blockquote>

JB, you have hit the nail on the head. Bravo! I would recommend to anyone who hasn't tried this to practice with an extremely light cue (17 oz) for about thirty minutes, and then take your heavier favorite cue out and shoot with it. The sensation will be almost as if you were in deadstroke. What happens is that with a light cue, your stroke has to be extra good to get any accuracy. Then when you switch, the heavier stick is easier to guide due to the fact that your muscle memory has just perfected going back and forth with the light stick. Unfortunately, this sensation only lasts a short while.

Take golf for instance. With a light club on a drive shot you have no accuracy. Your wrists get into the ball and you overpower it etc. In pool, your arm's defects show up more with a light cue.

I don't necessarily agree that a light stick will give you more cue ball control/accuracy, or at least I am still thinking about it. With a heavier cue, you have to start your acceleration earlier on the forward stroke. With the light cue, the acceleration is more of a snap (or at least has the tendency to be). I have more ball speed control with a heavier stick because it takes a smoother stroke to make the heavier stick work for me. Just like they say in golf, you let the club do the work for you. You don't try to muscle anything, just swing. Pool is similar. Let the heavier stick do the work for you.

Heh, I could be wrong on all of this, but the bottom line is that the weight of the cue is an individual thing, at least until someone proves otherwise.

"Let the sun shine through" Rah