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View Full Version : Does the age of the tip make a difference? (long)



05-08-2002, 07:56 PM
I recently started shooting some pool after over a 20 year layoff. Does the age of the tip matter? I remember always fussing with my tips. I would always miscue or get the sound of a miscue at least a few times each playing session. So I was always trying to rough up the tip with a coin or something. When I played at the IL. Billiard Club I used some kind of a diamond file or rasp they had there. Back then I was mostly using a Spain cue with Le Professional tips. And I played in a bar league with a Viking. I don't know what tip it came with. My cues still have those original tips. I only played less then a year back then after a 10 year layoff since high school play. And I played mostly 3 cushion billiards. Mostly because my friend only shot 3 cushion. But partly because I never seemed to be able to play as good as I did in high school. And that really wasn't very good.

I've read the back threads on tips here. And I've read some articles in magazines or on internet sites. Everyone always seemed to be comparing their tips by saying they are as good as a Moori. I received a couple emails telling me the sender used Moori tips. Either Medium/Hard or Hard. And they said they are excellent at holding the chalk. So I figure I will start with a Moori and then maybe later try the Talisman Pro and then maybe a Triangle. Those are the three tips I've read the best things about. And most articles I've read by pros, suggest using a hard tip.

The age of my tips doesn't seem like it makes any difference in how the cue plays. But I'm probably not good enough to know the difference. I won't be using the Spain cue because I've been told it's a collector's cue worth $2500 or more. I found a source for Moori tips. But he only sells soft, medium or hard. When I asked about M/H Moori tips, he said they have been discontinued and it's been almost a year since they have been made. He insinuated it wouldn't be good to buy tips that were made a year ago. Does the age of the tip really make a difference? I think Seybert's is still selling the old Moori M/H tips. They were mentioned a few times as a reputable place to purchase cues & supplies. So I'm thinking maybe the age of the tips isn't too important. I would have to purchase the Moori tips in 3 lots. And a tip always lasted me at least a year or longer when I played a lot in high school.

In a thread 63rd St. Billiards, just outside Chicago, was mentioned as a good place to get Talisman tips. I stopped there. Actually they don't make repairs there or put on tips. The owner drops them off someplace in Cicero and picks them up in 1 or 2 days. The kid working there didn't want to give me the name of the repair place they use. Cicero is closer to me then 63rd St. Billiards. I wanted them to look at my old Viking. Before I was told the pin is either crooked or not put in straight. And the kid at 63rd St. said it looks like my butt might be just a little warped in the forearm or joint section. I think this place was listed as a Viking authorized repair place. They also listed Cue Time Billiards which no longer does any repairs at all. And they listed Chris's Billiards. I stopped there and played. I never saw a repairman. I showed the counter man my stick. He said just screw in in partially and bend the pin to straighten it. At 63rd St. they said they can't get Moori tips anymore. They said the man that makes them, Moori I guess, disappeared about a year ago. And that no one has heard from him since then. And that anyone selling Moori tips must be selling out old stock. Again, making it seemed like buying a year old tip might not be a wise thing to do. Any opinions?
As for me I doubt I would ever know the difference.

SpiderMan
05-08-2002, 08:19 PM
Eddie,

1. Because they are leather, I would think that tips are subject to aging, but I would be very surprised if one year had a measureable detrimental effect. I actually found some 20-year-old boxes of lepros and elk masters, and can't feel a thing wrong with them.

2. I recently switched to triangle. For a medium-hard tip, they hold chalk better than anything else I've used, and they resist getting "shiny" with use.

3. I wouldn't take my cue to a repair place that farmed the work out somewhere else. I've had bad experiences with photo-processing dropoffs before, and I just don't like the idea of my precious stuff being hauled around and subject to loss or damage. There are plenty of in-house repair opportunities, just ask around.

SpiderMan

TalismanTony
05-08-2002, 09:25 PM
Hi Eddie,

As you noticed many manufacturers compare their tips to Moori (we at Talisman let our customers do this but we do it all the same). I think the main reason for this is that Moori were the first to come out with a tip made from layers of leather as opposed to the single layer tips that had been around for many years. Another reason is that Moori tips are very well made. I do though think that prices for Moori tips in the US are outrageous (on the most part). The big price tag is due to middle men (usually a few before the tip reaches the consumer) and the fact that only small numbers are made each month, so there is always more demand than supply. I used to work for Louis Vuitton (the very expensive French handbag/luggage company)and we did pretty much the same thing, prices were very high and we would only allow a person to buy one piece per day. During the summer in Paris, Japanese people sleep outside the Vuitton shop to get in first and buy the one piece they want. In this way we created demand. In fact Moori tips are not that expensive in Japan but as mentioned supply is very tight and so only a small number reach the US.

I have also heard many stories about the new Moori tips and the elusive Mr. Moori, not really sure what to believe. I must say I do not understand why you would want to change your hardness grading system after it working well for so long. The new system includes S, M and Q, which someone told me means "quick". How these compare with the previous system I do not know. Unfortunately you can't just email Mr. Moori or "customer service" at the Moori company and ask. It could be because there are reports of counterfeit Moori tips on the market made in factories in China, a good reason to buy from someone reputable like Seybert's.

Although I do not know exactly the production process used by them to produce the tips. I can though tell you I believe that the tips would be perfectly OK after one year and probably for many more years to come. When we make Talisman tips, one of the final parts of the production process includes a period of curing in a room with a controlled environment. We very slowly dry the tips right out. If this was not done they would continue to move around during use. Our tips can be kept for years as long as they are stored in a dry place.

Regarding the hardness to buy. Our most popular grade is Medium, by quite a large majority. I think the important thing here is to find the grade that feels right for you and your cue. If you are having trouble with you game, I would suggest starting off with a softer tip and then working up if you feel it was too soft. I can't comment on all the layered tips out there but both Talisman soft and the Moori Soft are not soft in a mushy sense.

Regarding your cue, I wouldn't do any home repairs to straighten the joint pin out (or whatever the problem actually is) get it to a professional. As you mentioned 63rd Street Billiards does stock Talisman tips but I didn't know repairs where not done on site. Try calling them and asking to speak with Rich Reschke or Rich Kryfka.

I hope this helps.

Kind regards,

05-08-2002, 11:11 PM
Hi Spiderman.
I dug up my old box of tips. It is a box of Elk Master Assorted sized tips that I bought between 65 & 69 when I played in high school. They look the same as when I bought them. I started playing in 65. I didn't like using the house cues. There was only one straight one that I liked. So I bought a used brunswick cue from one of the older guys who had quit playing. So it was made before 65. Maybe the late 50s or early 60s. It doesn't have a professional taper. And I think the tip is about a 12 3/4 mm size. My cousin broke it in 70 right before the pool room closed for the summer. My dad try to fix it but it but the joint didn't come out straight. So I still have that and my cousin's cue which was also made around 60. The pool room never reopened after that summer and I quit playing until about 1981. Someone needed to replace a team member on a tavern team. So I went to Burton Spain and he made a custom cue for me. It has a 13 mm tip and a pro taper. He said he could always take the shaft size down if I didn't like it. And I'm pretty sure he suggested a hard tip. He said because I also played 3 cushion that a hard tip would be better. He use Le Professional. I still have the 3 extra tips I purchased when i got my cue. I didn't want anything to happen to that cue. So I bought a Viking at Chris's Billiard to use in the tavern league. And then I quit playing until now. But I remember I was always trying to rough up my tips. But even in high school they
tips lasted over a year. Maybe a couple years. And in high school we would play 2 to 4 hours on school nights. And maybe 5 to 10 hours on weekends. And the pool room would close for 3 months in the summer.

05-08-2002, 11:34 PM
Hi Tony.
Thanks for the advice. When I started shooting in the 60s I had a friend who was good at 3 cushion billiards. He told me I should use a hard tip. I went to a Brunswick/Universal bowling store. They said Elk Master were their best tips. And that is what I used from 65 to about 70. But the tips would get sort of shinning. And I use to use a lot of English back then. So my poor shooting or stroke probably was and is most of my problem. I quit playing until 81. Then in 81 I joined a tavern team. I was told Spain was the best cue maker around. So I went to him. He suggested I should go to a heavier cue. So I went to 19 1/2 oz. He suggest the 13mm tip size and a pro taper. And I'm fairly sure he suggested a hard tip. I still have the 3 extra tips I purchased with my cue. But they don't say anything on them.

In most of the articles I read the pros or writer suggest using a hard tip. And I received some emails or personal messages from readers of this site. And they said they used the Moori tip because it holds the chalk really well. And they suggested the M/H. That is probably close to the hardness that the Le Professional are. Besides the Moori tips, your Talisman tips had the most & best things said about them. The reason I wanted to try the Moori was because of a few articles by pros like Miserak (?spelling)who recommended Moori. And then the tip with the next best things said about it was Triangle. I believe that is more of a conventional tip or non layered tip. Thanks again for the help. I could very easily end up using your Talisman Pro tip. I don't remember the differences between your pro and WB tips. But I remember when I read about then I decided if I used a Talisman I would try the pro. Thanks again for the help.

TalismanTony
05-09-2002, 03:43 AM
Hi Eddie,

If you end up deciding on the Talisman PRO I would suggest the Medium as this is similar to the Moori MH, our tips are a little firmer than others of similar grades. Shouldn't have any problem with them holding the chalk and after installation and a few hours settling in, they should require very little maintainence.

Kind regards,

05-09-2002, 07:35 AM

Troy
05-09-2002, 03:10 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: SpiderMan:</font><hr> Eddie,

3. I wouldn't take my cue to a repair place that farmed the work out somewhere else. I've had bad experiences with photo-processing dropoffs before, and I just don't like the idea of my precious stuff being hauled around and subject to loss or damage. There are plenty of in-house repair opportunities, just ask around.

SpiderMan <hr></blockquote>

I work through many rooms in the area and my equipment at home in the shop is NOT exactly portable. The rooms take in repair work from customers, I pick up and deliver usually with one day or second day return service.
Troy

Troy
05-09-2002, 03:15 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: whitewolf:</font><hr> Hi Eddie

The only thing you will need is one of those pricking tools <hr></blockquote>

I would disagree on the use of a "prickling tool"... Picking has a tendency to weaken the adhesive of a layered tip.

Troy

05-10-2002, 02:51 AM
I guess you would prefer the chance of a miscue instead? All of the house pro's I know use a tip pik. They do it more than once during a long match. I would rather have a tip do what it's supposed to than worry about how long it lasts.