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adc
07-29-2004, 07:46 AM
I can't remember whether I have brought this up, it may sound silly but I am looking to insure my cue as a specific object. Is that possible? Is that even done?

I am located in Canberra, Australia and would appreciate any help if possible. So far I have contacted several insurance agencies and they either will not insure it, or ask me to refer to "house content insurance". But I have not been able to find a way to insure it directly. If anything, I can get a retail quotation, etc to show the value of the cue.

Thanks.

Scott Lee
07-29-2004, 09:00 AM
adc...Here in the States, I have insured my cues with a rider policy attached to my homeowners. You will generally need either a receipt, or a statement of worth/cost from the manufacturer, to insure for the full value. Hope this helps.

Scott Lee

SPetty
07-29-2004, 11:06 AM
I don't know nothin' about Australia, but I don't think you'd be able to insure a single cue directly. Like Scott said, I think you'd have to insure it as part of your homeowners insurance.

Unless it is a supremely valuable cue and you can prove to the insurer that you keep it safe. By "insurer", I probably mean someone like Lloyds of London that is known for insuring weird things for a lot of money.

nAz
07-29-2004, 12:15 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Scott Lee:</font><hr> adc...Here in the States, I have insured my cues with a rider policy attached to my homeowners. You will generally need either a receipt, or a statement of worth/cost from the manufacturer, to insure for the full value. Hope this helps.

Scott Lee <hr /></blockquote>

Mr. Lee i was wondering did you have your old cue insured, the one that was stolen from you back in the, I think 80s?

rocky
07-29-2004, 03:02 PM
Loyds of London will insure just about anything and anywhere. You may also want to look into renters insurance if you dont own your digs. A burglary and theft rider is usually available that will cover your cues.

Scott Lee
07-29-2004, 04:39 PM
naz...As a matter of fact I did! However, the deductible was quite high, and the cue not worth as much then as it is now, so I never turned in a claim! /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

BTW, the well-known collector who STILL has my cue illegally in his possession, has been charged with receiving stolen property! Hopefully this may convince him to return my property to me! Otherwise, he deserves whatever happens to him, imo.

Scott

Malice
07-29-2004, 11:19 PM
If it's really a special cue, don't insure it.

Jimmy B
07-30-2004, 02:46 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Scott Lee:</font><hr> BTW, the well-known collector who STILL has my cue illegally in his possession, has been charged with receiving stolen property! Hopefully this may convince him to return my property to me! Otherwise, he deserves whatever happens to him, imo.

Scott <hr /></blockquote>

IMO if you weren't such a nit you would have been happy to come up with the money he put into it and gotten it back already. I don't really have a side in this issue, but what is right is right. And if I were him and his side of the story is true and you refused to come up with what he put into it I would sand off the finish cut in in 1/2 and mail the parts to you. I think you are lucky to have a chance at getting it back you should be less cheap and more smart.

JB

Jimmy B
07-30-2004, 02:51 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote adc:</font><hr>I am looking to insure my cue as a specific object. Is that possible? Is that even done?

Thanks. <hr /></blockquote>

You can get a rider on your homeowners, it does depend on how much your house is worth if the cue is a high dollar investment piece. The extra insurance is very expensive (around $50-$75 per $1,000 a year) and IMO it's not worth it because it's very hard to figure replacement value and to have a person the insurance company will listen to on an estimate. It will cost you a ton and then when something happens they will fight you. My guy tried to insure them as sporting goods; if it worked I would have been covered for damage as well as other stupid stuff like tips falling off (it didn't work LOL)

JB

Popcorn
07-30-2004, 08:16 AM
Without knowing anything about this, am I guessing right when you say Mr. Lee owes the guy money for his own stolen cue, probably the amount the fence paid for it? You don't pay for your own property, not to the fence.

Scott Lee
07-30-2004, 09:17 AM
JimmyB...There's two sides to every story, Jimmy. You apparently choose to believe his. I guess he didn't tell you that we agreed on a significant dollar amount ($1000) for him to return the cue to me that first weekend at VF. He chose to disregard that, after shaking hands on it. I would have been happy to pay him right then, and get the cue back. Now he'll have to deal with the police. If that makes me a 'nit', then so be it. However, the law is still the law, and he's in violation of it, not me.

BTW, the police made it perfectly clear to both of us (particularly him) that I was under no obligation to pay him one cent for the return of the cue, regardless of what he had in it. I made him a very fair offer, after discussing the matter with two other well-known collectors. I tried to, as you say, "do the right thing"...and he screwed me over.

Scott Lee

Jimmy B
07-31-2004, 02:23 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> Without knowing anything about this, am I guessing right when you say Mr. Lee owes the guy money for his own stolen cue, probably the amount the fence paid for it? You don't pay for your own property, not to the fence. <hr /></blockquote>
No Pop that isn't what I was saying, I agree with you on that. But there was money put into the cue after, the cue was bought broken (allegedly) and I am talking about money spent on repair and new shafts and stuff.

JB

Jimmy B
07-31-2004, 02:32 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Scott Lee:</font><hr> JimmyB...There's two sides to every story, Jimmy. You apparently choose to believe his. I guess he didn't tell you that we agreed on a significant dollar amount ($1000) for him to return the cue to me that first weekend at VF. He chose to disregard that, after shaking hands on it. I would have been happy to pay him right then, and get the cue back. Now he'll have to deal with the police. If that makes me a 'nit', then so be it. However, the law is still the law, and he's in violation of it, not me.

BTW, the police made it perfectly clear to both of us (particularly him) that I was under no obligation to pay him one cent for the return of the cue, regardless of what he had in it. I made him a very fair offer, after discussing the matter with two other well-known collectors. I tried to, as you say, "do the right thing"...and he screwed me over.

Scott Lee <hr /></blockquote>

I agree two sides to every story and I am sure I don't know the whole story, but that in no way makes your side right either. 3 sides to every story is yours his and the truth, I think that is prolly closer to the truth. As far as an agreed upon price I was under the understanding that you had a deal and then you went ahead and called the cops and made a scene (that much I saw. IMO that was a nit move you didn't have to hurt a person's business during the show in public after you had an agreed upon (hand shake) deal. Also I don't really care what the cops said I am talking about what's right IMO, some may disagree, it's just my opinion. I also don't care who's side you THINK I am on, because the truth is I side with you more on the deal, but I also think M didn't know he was in the wrong, so I kinda feel he shouldn't get completely screwed over. If the cue was in the same shape as when he bought it (wrecked), I would say you should just take it and forget whatever it is that he spent on it. As many know cues get stolen all the time and people buy them not knowing, this is a crazy story with the time span but I think all parties could be happy in the end. I hope it works out and don't really care if people go to jail or lose money on the deal, but my opinion stands.

JB

Chris Cass
07-31-2004, 08:06 AM
Hi Jimbo,

I was there and these are my thoughts on the matter. Scott had mentioned to me that he had seen a pic of the cue in an article out of one of the mags. He knew the cue collector had his booth there and saw the cue.

He calmly approached the guy and explained to him that the cue in question was stolen from him and that he wanted to recover it. The cue collector agreed and told Scott he wanted what he had put into the cue and it was his. They both agreed on the grand, as Scott had mentioned to me.

Scott then, returned to him ready to pay the G and the cue collector declined and said he wanted proof that the cue was his. Scott said he would return with the proof as he didn't have it with him.

I told Scott he should have some kind of docummented proof that the cue was in the collectors posession. Scott then notified the police but requested a plain clothed detective not to disrupt the mans business. As I had suggested. I was responsible for that, not Scott. My father was a 20 yr vet of the Cook County Sherrifs office and I know what's needed to recover lost or stolen articles. The cops fuddled that one up.

The cue collectors, when buying these expensive cues, know better than to just buy a cue without proof of ownership. If that can't be met they atleast are knowledgable, to get an ID of the seller and document that to cover themselves. This particular cue collector has an extremem amount of high dollar cues and imho knows better.

He basically accused Scott of trying to rob him. At very least calling him a liar. Maybe not directly but indirectly. I understand that he could be thinking everyone wants to get over on him from past dealings with others. He knows Scott, and knows that Scott works one of the other booths there and at many events. They know eachother if not personally but in passing. It's a small world.

The way I see it is, if the cue collector has his proof of who sold the cue to him. He'll be able to recover his loss through small claims court. If not then, it surely will give him something to think about later. Not if he has the proof of who sold it to him then, the seller should have a receipt of who he bought it from too.

I feel for Scott. He owns this cue and it gets stolen. Now, he agrees to pay the guy what the guy put into the cue to get it back but the guy renigs on the deal. I'm thinking the guy wants the current value of the cue now. So, whos the nit?

I don't believe either one of us should call someone a nit for if the shoe was on the other foot? It wouldn't be a good thing to be accused of. I think Scott handled it right and the cops fudged it up a bit.

If it were me and I was younger? I would have smashed the glass, grabbed my cue and beat it out of there. Let them arrest me and hold the cue in the evidence room. Thank God, I'm not the hot head I used to be. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Either way, this shouldn't be discussed here due to the impending court case. Just my thoughts.

Regards,

C.C.

Barbara
07-31-2004, 08:22 AM
Tap! Tap! Tap!

Thank you, Chris!!

Barbara

Jimmy B
08-01-2004, 03:19 PM
CC says: He calmly approached the guy and explained to him that the cue

Chris I am not involved I'm not on one side or the other I don't owe either person a thing and couldn't care less who makes out or who loses on this issue. You on the other hand are very close with Scott, I can understand why you would want to slant the story in his direction. I'm not saying he is wrong and I would have handled it much different and my way would have been closer to your smashing the glass example. As far as the person knowing better and getting a name, well that's just a joke and I hope you know this. First of all the cue was stolen long ago and far away, I am sure it's had 10+ owners since then, there is a chance the last 5 owners of the cue didn't know it was stolen and there would be no real way to track who originally stole it. I have bought many cues and never once checked someone's ID, that just isn't the way it works. I don't feel asking for proof of the story or Scott's ownership was out of line, how can any reasonable person expect someone to just hand over a cue on a story, or one man's word? I also don't know the whole story as you I've heard sides and witnessed certain things but I don't have a friend in the matter so my view is non-biased. I am going by Scott's post and what I've heard from the other side of the story. I believe Scott should get his cue back *IF* he can prove it was his and stolen, I also think the other person should get the money he put into the cue back or return it the way he received it. To me it's a simple thing, I don't need to take into account who I know and or like, just the facts that I have in front of me.

JB

highsea
08-01-2004, 07:19 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Jimmy B:</font><hr>I believe Scott should get his cue back *IF* he can prove it was his and stolen, I also think the other person should get the money he put into the cue back or return it the way he received it. To me it's a simple thing, I don't need to take into account who I know and or like, just the facts that I have in front of me.

JB<hr /></blockquote>The police report from the original theft should be sufficient to establish the legal ownership.

Simply put, if Scott was the victim of the crime, then he should have his property returned at no cost to him.

The collector who is now in posession is SOL. Period. That's the risk he took when he bought the cue without proof of legal ownership from the seller. Maybe this will teach him to be a little more careful in the future.

Furthermore, if he "returns" the cue to the condition it was when he bought it, he may find himself in even more trouble for vandalizing property that does not legally belong to him. If he wishes to collect for his losses, he needs to go after the guy he bought it from, not the original victim of the theft.

-CM

Chris Cass
08-01-2004, 10:49 PM
Hi Jimbo,

Great post and I know what your saying. I am really good friends with Scott. Not enough to call him Scotty without ticking him off but still good friends.

As far as slanting to Scotts side? I'm only going by what he's told me. He's told me he did file a police report of the theft and your right. That first theif will probably be untracable. Knowing Scott as I do and that he had a affiliation with another booth tells me he'd think twice before going in with both barrels. They all want peace at them events. Scott' never lied to me.

The report was my idea and just advice to a friend. I even suggested the plain clothes Det to not disrupt the sales of any booth in the area. Scott was just as surprized as I was when I heard it from him, that night.

Both the cue collector and Scott are both recognized for their integrity. It was just a out of control type situation caused by the local PD. That's why the court system is the right venue for this problem. It's a shame that it even had to come to this.

When I suggested that the cue collector should have proof of where he bought it and who. Then, atleast he'll have a way of trying to get back his investment. I'm sure the cue collector didn't know it was a stolen cue. Otherwise he wouldn't have it in a mag article. Also, with the cues he does stock and are for sale are some of the finest cues I've ever seen.

This cue of Scott' (no offence Scott) doesn't hold a candle to, just a few of the ones, I saw at the very same booth. Man, what cues... The genleman I spoke with about my cue was extremely professional and I would feel extremely safe doing business with him myself. I don't really think he's a nit either. A grand to that guy means nothing. I'm sure he felt that if ten people told him that? He just might want to play it safe. He might not know Scott as well.

None of this is really anyones fault. It's just something that happens. This really has got me thinking though. I still have the original receipt for my cue. If it was stolen or damaged? Then, I would most likely only get the purchase price and possible, they might tack on a depreciation. That would really suck as it's market value is much higher. Oh well, another thread.

Regards,

C.C.