View Full Version : Under-age Gambling
07-29-2004, 04:45 PM
I have a story that you might find interesting.
I joined a ACS team thing to get Spike qualified seeing how there isn't a BCA thing in our area so far. Spike and I play for the same team. After leagues the other night I went to do my daily drills for the up coming Open event and looked over and saw Spike playing this "B" player on #1 bar box.
This wasn't unusual for Spike as he's always had found games with just about anyone even though as of late not too many people do play with him. I think it's not a good feeling for some that get beat by an 11 yr old. Plus, the kids starting to woof and I don't like it much but I do get a laugh now and then. Most at the hall like him and most all woof. So, I kind of let it go a bit. Till, it becomes disrespectful. Then, I'll step in. Haven't seen that so far.
Anyway, that millionare guy we talked about before was there too. BTW, he does have a puter and reads quite a bit too. Anyway, I was so far down the hall and didn't think much of all the people standing around. That's normal when Spikes playing.
Anyway, seems the millionare guy was woofing at the shooter that was playing Spike and made a $50. bet on Spike to win a race to 5, 8 ball. First, let me say, I don't allow Spike to gamble and he knows how I feel about it. He's too young and it's not about the money. If I wanted I myself would put him in the box but, I don't.
I want him to learn the right way and learn to love the sport as it was meant to be. When, he's older and able to decide if he wants to gamble then fine. Probably when I'm not around too but while I'm here I want him to learn the game without the added pressure of gambling. I also don't want some idiot trying to make doe off my kid.
He has a tough time with dealing with missing let alone missing with money on the line. It just shouldn't be done with an 11 yr old, imo.
Well, Spike lost and I never knew what was going on. Then, Spike passes my table throws his case on the chair and with tears in his eyes works his way to the john. I'm thinking, what's up? Well, 10 mins go by and no Spike. Now, I have my cue and his and nobody to watch them so I can't leave the cues and I was stuck there.
Finally, he comes out and comes over by me. He tells me the story and he lost the match. I could tell he'd been crying but he hides it in front of eveyone. That's not what men do. I was pissed to say the least. I was mad because this guy puts my son in the box without asking me and then, Spike tells me that if he won the guy said he would give him $10. Tightass. Anyway, I was mad at Spike too. He knows that I don't allow him to gamble or be any part of it. He apologized and knew he was wrong for not telling me. He told me he just wanted to play and didn't know about it till he was up 1-0 on the guy.
Now, the next day comes and I walk in the hall and see the millionare guy. I'm still pissed but seeing how I work there I must remain tackful and he was most likely drunk when he did it. I know the guy has no morals and as he's walking out past me and my son. He totally egnores Spike not saying one word like he's pissed he lost his money. This is too much. I told Spike I wads glad he lost and I have never told him that nor think I ever would.
Just thought I'd show you what I'm dealing with lately. BTW, gambling doesn't make you better. It makes you understand that a judgement error in shot selections can cost you. It tightens up your game and teaches you your odds on making a shot based on your knowledge. Better player? No. Know yourself better? Yes.
You handled that situation much better than I would have. My hat's off to you (sorry about the glare from the head).
Of course, I live in Oklahoma, where it would have been socially acceptable for me to take a garden hoe and weed his rich a$$ for putting my son in that position.
BTW, I feel you are right. First, Spike doesn't need to learn the gambling end of this game at this point, and second, this guy has NO business cutting him in on a side bet (pretty skimpy on the jelly for anyone, much less a millionaire, in my opinion) without coming to you first and asking.
That being said, I was gambling for soft drinks when I was his age (of course, they only cost 3 cents back then), but I learned some awfully bad habits even doing that... some that still come back to haunt me every once in awhile. I wish I had learned to play for the love of the game not the love of the rewards I could reap from it. I quit this game in 1988 because I just didn't care about it anymore. I just started playing again in April of 2002... now I play it for the thrill of pocketing balls and playing good position and yes, for the thrill of a win. I play it because I love the game... but still, everytime a fish walks into a bar or poolroom the hair stands up on the back of my neck... but I refrain. I just take another sip of diet Coke and watch someone else skin them.
I'm glad the guy lost. What an Idiot to tell a young guy or many players you've bet on them. Yea he was tight on the cut. LOL Your doing the right thing with Chris. Now if you can calmly tell the guy just back off. It's ok if he bets but it's between him and the other guy, not Christ.
07-29-2004, 06:45 PM
You've got to tell both this jerk and Spike that there's no gambling allowed. This more to the jerk than Spike. Spike's at the age where it's adding up - win/lose thing. This money guy is just a loser and looking to screw mentally with people 'cause he can and doesn't care about his money.
Word up! You've got to get Spike to hang with people that compete for the challenge of it. You've got your head on straight about gambling. Spike doesn't need to throw that screw into his game this early on.
Here ya go, there's this 17-yr old girl that just started playing in my tour. And she's freaking good, too! Reminds me of a young Tiffany Nelson. At the last tourny she played, she knocked me out. But during the match, we were both being very pleasant and joking with each other as it was late Saturday and we were both "pool drunk". Her father was watching us and joking along. No kidding. He was having the best time watching his daughter and couldn't care less that she was making mistakes and missing. He told me afterward that as long as his daughter is having FUN playing, he would let her play. Even if she decided to get serious, the premise was she still has to have FUN playing the game. And she's taking some serious lessons from some serious players out on Long Island.
I guess the moral of the story I'm trying to make is, if you're not supporting your family by playing pool, you shouldn't be trying to do that and just play the fricking game! And remember that it's a game.
I don't really think Spike has a problem with pool, he has a win/lose problem and shouldn't look at it like it's a total personal failure. He's too young for that. He needs to be tutored about that.
07-29-2004, 07:14 PM
CC, congrats on the way you handled it, I dont think I could have been so cool if it was DJ that was involved.
07-29-2004, 07:22 PM
I love hearing your stories Chris, keep 'em comin'. Props on (trying to) keep him off gambling, the game is most beautiful, to me, when played for the thrill of the game. Good idea to teach him respect for the game above respect for the cash. As always, respect. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
07-29-2004, 08:22 PM
C.C. - good post. A person that age definitely doesn't need any extra pressure on them. Their lives are fragile at this point with all the changes they are going through, without having to worry about playing for money. As for his anger problem, his Sensei should be able to help him learn to control and channel his anger the right way. Without trying to sound like Star Wars, if he gives in to the dark side of anger, it will consume his every thought and emotion. Spike's probably feeling like a failure and feeling like he let you down. Tell him it just ain't so.
DG - wishes you both luck
07-29-2004, 11:42 PM
I think I was about 11 when I started playing pool (I'm now 17). And at that age, I don't think I would have been able to handle such pressure... It was all about having fun and kicking each others asses back then (...and it still is /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif).
Anyway, very well handled...If it were my kid, I think I would have flipped...
07-30-2004, 12:24 AM
One of my most enduring memories from childhood was accompanying my father on a business trip, where one of his clients had a pool table in his house. I challenged the guy to a game for 25 cents (maybe a weekly allowance for me?). He of course bet me, but was gracious enough to let me shoot once or twice. I think I cried over losing that quarter. I think I was about ten at the time.
07-30-2004, 08:20 AM
I'd like to thank all for the replies. Spike is ok now, and was after that night was over. I know many might suggest, I confront the rich guy. Bottom line is, it's Spike, I can really only try to control.
We've talked and he understands fully. The old rich guy? Well, money doesn't mean much to him and having money doesn't mean it comes with morals. Whether it would be him or anyone else that might try to make a buck off any kid or any player, you just can't control everyone.
I never said anything to him about it. Although, I wanted to. It just didn't seem important. What's important to me is that my son discusses what's going on with me about everything and not just pool. Spike agreed and knew what he was suppose to do.
Spike, finds the good in all people. People, I know aren't worth a plug nickel, he likes. I used to think it was because I didn't care for them but it's not a me controling him issue. It's the love he has for everyone.
Lastnight I looked over at the food counter and sure enough, he was sitting with the old guy again. I called him over for a second and asked, why are you sitting with him after lastnight? He said, he's my friend. Well, what do I say about that?
I told him, after all that crap lastnight you want to be friends with him? He said, it wasn't his fault Dad. He and the other guy were drunk. I said what? He said, I know it's hard to tell but, I know from smelling him. Yuk.
He said, I told him not to do that with me anymore and he told me ok. So, it looks like Spike handled his own problems. I'm sure he also found out Spike had cried over the loss. I know he felt bad to a degree and Spike I'm thinking looks at him as a grandpa figure. I know he likes Spike a lot but I also know he doesn't have very high morals either.
Tough, trying to teach a kid growing up in a ph with adults mostly. They tend to grow up quick and learn things way too soon. That's the pitfalls of the ph's. I don't shut my sons eyes to what goes on. I help him understand right from wrong, in my eyes.
To each his own about the gambling issue. I'm a gambler and I started at 15. I was fortunate to learn the hard way to teach Spike the right ways. IMO I don't look down on others of how they bring up there kids but I have my own ideas of what I think is important as far as Spike is concerned.
I want him to love pool as I do with the rewards of sponsors and turning pro if he chooses to do so. Not, rob everyone and look at this as a source of backroom income. Later, he might turn and gamble. I don't have a problem with that either but it will be his choice not because his Dad taught him to. I want to just teach him of the traps and not being anyones sucker or meal ticket.
I've taught him many things for his protection. He knows Texas Holdem, Craps, Ring games, every pool game, including One Pocket and about gambling. He knows odds and when to fold. This I know sounds bad but it's really a protection later on being around the people he'll run across later in life. Did I say later?
The other day last week a two friends of a friend asked Spike to go to the woods with them. All four went. They call it the woods but it's really a revein. Anyway, Spike came home and told me that the big kid age 13 asked Spike if he'd like to try some crack. This is age 13 mind you. Spike turned him down with his friend too. He came home and told Heide about it.
I freaked, but I was very pleased and proud that he would tell his Mom about it. He didn't tell me because he knew what I would do. Turns out Heide knows the kids family from working at the school for a few yrs.
The two brothers(friends) had been known to carry guns or have access to them. The father is a known drug addict and the mother drinks. The kids are or have no supervision. I wanted to call the cops and Spike begged me not to. I told him I was proud of him and that I wouldn't. I also told Heide that if I ever hear one more word about these two, I want the parents to know it. Spike also isn't allowed to go near them.
There's always going to be people that go down the wrong path in life. I can't control them nor some side bets. Alls I can do is teach him what I know and pray he does good. I've taught him that all decisions in life have consiquences that come with them. Some good, some bad. No matter what you choose to do, be prepared to pay them consiquences.
Thaks all for your input. Lord knows we have to help eachother.
C.C.~~he loves Auntie Barbara and Carol and Cathy, and Joanna and Wendy and and and. LOLLOL I haven't prepared him the nAz yet. LMAO
07-30-2004, 05:06 PM
Chris, I think you are doing a great job helping to raise Spike. Raising children is a tuff job. No doubt, Heide does her part too. It's much easier when you and your partner support each other. The biggest thing I learned from my folks, was when they disagreed, they did so in private. They didn't disagree in front of me. Keep up the good work. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
07-30-2004, 07:06 PM
This happened to me monday sort of. Some rich guy at this yuppie bar i was playing at bet $100 on me. Didnt mention this to me at all, i didnt even know the guy. He knew a girl i was with i guess and had seen me play elsewhere or something like that. Anyways if i am playing for money i play a whole different game. The guys i was playing were getting a little tipsy and i was sober...easy game. But i lost cause i didnt come to win i just came to play around. If someone would have told me that some dumbass bet a bill on me i probably would have won and talked over my cut later. Instead the guy seemed to be pissed that i lost afterwards. The rich guy learned a cheap lesson i guess. Next time you bet on someone you better let them know.
07-30-2004, 08:05 PM
I hear you man. I just don't want my kid in the box just yet. I want him to learn more of the playing aspect first. He doesn't need to gamble at 11 yrs old. That just my thoughts not for others.
He's coming up so fast and I haven't even taught him how to do many things yet. Like, playing with weight or giving up weight. How to make a match up or when to know to turn one down. Either way, I wasn't planning on this for many years to come.
I need to teach him these things for the handicap tourneys and not for gambling. Sure, he'll be able to use them in that too but not till he's atleast 21. I won't be around then and he'll most likely match up before that but, I would rather see him go down the path of sponsorship and not try to steal.
The rich guy or any other side betters? They are merely leaches. Unless, they come across with some jelly or it's calcutta money. Don't get me wrong. I like to side bet too but I am far from cheap and I'll make sure the shooter gets his and likes it. I know I sound two faced but my kid is going to grow up wise and atleast know the difference between wrong and right. I didn't have that knowledge and many times been under the gun or in many traps. Nothing worse than feeling like a pawn to some idiot that uses your talent to profit for themselves.
BTW, ever go to play some at Shooters in Olathe ?
07-30-2004, 08:22 PM
I like to at least be told. Sometime like, "I'm counting on you." would be adequate. There is no such thing as a sure bet. If you are going to gamble there is always risk. The best you can do is to play the odds. If he wants no risk, have him get an insured savings, or United States savings bonds. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
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