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Wally_in_Cincy
08-02-2004, 07:21 AM
Newspaper: Michael Moore Faked Front Page
BLOOMINGTON, Ill. – Filmmaker Michael Moore's Bush-basing documentary "Fahrenheit 9/11" apparently has upset more than Republicans.

The Pantagraph newspaper in central Illinois has sent a letter to Moore and his production company, Lions Gate Entertainment Corp., asking Moore to apologize for using what the newspaper says was a doctored front page in the film, the paper reported Friday. It also is seeking compensatory damages of $1.

scene early in the movie that shows newspaper headlines related to the legally contested presidential election of 2000 included a shot of The Pantagraph's Dec. 19, 2001, front page, with the prominent headline: "Latest Florida recount shows Gore won election."
The paper says that headline never appeared on that day. It appeared in a Dec. 5, 2001, edition, but [b]the headline was not used on the front page. Instead, it was found in much smaller type above a letter to the editor, which the paper says reflects "only the opinions of the letter writer."
"If [Moore] wants to 'edit' The Pantagraph, he should apply for a copy-editing job," the paper said.
Lions Gate Entertainment did not immediately return phone calls seeking comment Friday.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/7/30/204734.shtml

<font color="blue">lying bastard </font color>

Nostroke
08-02-2004, 11:37 AM
If true that is quite dishonest but better there be a lying filmmaker than an intellectually challenged loose canon cowboy false bravado president with an axe to grind.

pooltchr
08-02-2004, 12:45 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Nostroke:</font><hr> better there be a lying filmmaker than an intellectually challenged loose canon cowboy false bravado president with an axe to grind. <hr /></blockquote>

Why don't you tell us what you REALLY think?

Biased journalism (and i am loosly associating film making with journalism) is the reason the majority of democrats believe as you do. They take the information that is spoon fed to them by the networks, rather than do any thinking of their own. It's easier that way.
I would have loved to have been at the Dem convention and asked many of those why they were supporting Kerry....I would bet nearly half wouldn't be able to give a knowlegable answer.

Here you have been given evidence that someone who claims to have put together a factual movie, actually made up part of it to suit his agenda, and you, rather than try to defend it, chose to lash out with name calling.
Good response! You admit it's dishonest and then the next word you write is "but". Clinton was dishonest, "but"....
I guess dishonesty is ok as long as it supports your cause.

Nostroke
08-02-2004, 01:46 PM
How shrewd of you to figure me out so well from a single sentence! Your logic and reasoning are so sound that I now find it is impossible to reach any other conclusion myself. I have been converted. Go Get'm George!

highsea
08-02-2004, 01:51 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Nostroke:</font><hr> If true that is quite dishonest....<hr /></blockquote>It's true. I have seen the pictures from the film and the actual newspaper. Moore changed the date of the paper to make it harder to track down, but he got caught.

It it a blatant fabrication by Moore. He changed a letter to the editor into the paper's front page headline. Simple as that.

Moore makes a big deal about his "fact checking" and his "war room", and says that if anyone can find a single thing in F911 that is not true, he will pay up. Problem is, everytime he's challenged, he just weasels around it or ignores it. I bet he doesn't even pay the $1.00, because that would be an admission that he faked the headline.

I guess it depends what your definition of "is" is.

BTW, the thread is about Moore, not Bush.

Cueless Joey
08-02-2004, 03:18 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Marines Probe 'Fahrenheit' Soldier


The Marine reservist who told Michael Moore in Fahrenheit 9/11 that he would not fight again in Iraq and accompanied Moore as the filmmaker attempted to persuade members of Congress to have their kids join up to fight, is being investigated by the Marine Corps, USA Today reported today (Thursday). According to the newspaper, the Corps is conducting a preliminary inquiry into Lance Cpl. Abdul Henderson's appearance in the film. A spokesman for the Marines, Patrick Kerr, commented: "He made it very clear that he would not follow orders. ... We're trying to determine what, if anything, he said or did was wrong." Asked what would befall Henderson if he failed to report for a second tour of duty in Iraq, Kerr replied, "Technically, he'd be a deserter." Henderson told the newspaper that so far, he has heard nothing from his superiors. "I expect trouble, but who knows?" he said. "They never told us not to give our opinions of how we felt." Meanwhile, Fahrenheit continued to perform strongly during mid-week. It has now earned more than $106 million at the domestic box office.
<hr /></blockquote> I don't know what to make of this.

Ross
08-02-2004, 08:24 PM
When Moore was on Leno, he said that polls showed that 30% of Republicans who saw it thought the film was "fair to Bush." He laughed, and said " I don't even believe that!" I wouldn't look to Farenheit 911 to get objective information. But it does have some amazing footage, as all of Moore's films do.

And if he faked the headline, he was wrong and should be brought to task for doing it.

crawdaddio
08-02-2004, 08:41 PM
It really saddens me because he COULD be such a vital voice to the American people. He could easily support his opinions without resorting to editing trickery and forgery. I agree with many (not all) of his opinions, but disagree with his propagandistic (is that a word?) tactics.

DC

Wally_in_Cincy
08-03-2004, 06:47 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote crawdaddio:</font><hr> ... propagandistic (is that a word?) <hr /></blockquote>

"liar" is easier to spell.

highsea
08-03-2004, 12:00 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ross:</font><hr> When Moore was on Leno, he said that polls showed that 30% of Republicans who saw it thought the film was "fair to Bush." He laughed, and said " I don't even believe that!" I wouldn't look to Farenheit 911 to get objective information. But it does have some amazing footage, as all of Moore's films do.<hr /></blockquote>No doubt it is well made. I've just never been a fan of ambush journalism.

What bothers me most, is he sold the film rights in the mid-east (reportedly with offers of support from Hezbollah). So this film will play in Syria, Iran, Lebanon... Somehow I don't think the Arab press will be nearly as critical as our own(though it has been banned in Kuwait and Saudi Arabia as hostile to the Saudi royal family). Can you say "preaching to the choir?"

Moore thinks he is just attacking Bush, but we have 140,000 kids over there trying to quell the choas in Iraq, and this can only inflame it more. Moore claims to support our troops, but how will he explain that to the parents when they get that black bordered letter?

Thanks, Mike. &lt;sarcasm&gt;

Ross
08-03-2004, 01:08 PM
I doubt Iraqi insurgents (many of whom are just paid thugs or kidnappers going for ransoms a la Columbia. See http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/08/03/van.marsh/ ) will go watch Moore's film and then go "let's kill more Americans." This administration has pretty much done all of the alienation of Arabs that could be done. The administrations lack of postwar planning and the "go it alone, the rest of the world be damned" approach is the biggest reason that Iraq is threatening to become another Vietnam or Chechnya. There were 600+ dead US soldiers and thousands more maimed before Moore released his film. And yet after this loss of American soldiers security in Iraq is worse than it was a year ago, not better. I am willing to bet a dollar to a doughnut that if the circumstances were the same but Clinton were president now, many of the same people who are defending Bush's conduct of this war would be raising holy hell about what an idiot he was to get us into this mess. And if they did, that would not make them unpatriotic.

Oh, yeah - Afghanistan is also getting less secure as well. Great planning, huh? We need vocal critics like Moore questioning what is going on and why we really did go into Iraq. (But he still shouldn't have made the editorial title look like a headline, if that is what he did.)

Qtec
08-03-2004, 02:29 PM
So you believe this article?

Believe me, never in the film does MM mention this report as 'Front page'.

It amazes me that the points that MM brought up are ignored by the RW. All they can do is nit pick.

Have you seen the film? There was nothing new in it for me! /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Questions raised by MM;
Why were the Saudis allowed to leave the coutry without being questioned [ at a time when ALL flights were grounded]?
Why would the Saudis want to invest in an American[ Texas] oil company when they have the biggest oil deposits in the world?


Just two questions that require an answer and you are moanng because the date was wrong, not the actual content.
A classic example of GOP spin and you fell for it.

I have the film and can post the actual frame of the film if neccessary.

This is just total BS.

Q

highsea
08-03-2004, 02:57 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> Believe me, never in the film does MM mention this report as 'Front page'. <font color="red"> It was a picture of a front page headline. I've seen it, and you cannot logically interpret it any other way. There was no commentary attached to it, just a shot of the faked headline.</font color>

It amazes me that the points that MM brought up are ignored by the RW. All they can do is nit pick.

Have you seen the film? There was nothing new in it for me! /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Questions raised by MM;
Why were the Saudis allowed to leave the coutry without being questioned [ at a time when ALL flights were grounded]? <font color="red"> You can't be serious. This has been proven false beyond any doubt. </font color>
Why would the Saudis want to invest in an American[ Texas] oil company when they have the biggest oil deposits in the world? <font color="red"> What oil company did they invest in? Specifics please, names, dates, dollar amounts. Also, we would like to know exactly how it incriminates Bush in any wrongdoing.</font color>


Just two questions that require an answer and you are moanng because the date was wrong, not the actual content.
A classic example of GOP spin and you fell for it.

I have the film and can post the actual frame of the film if neccessary. <font color="red"> Please do. I will then post a picture of the actual paper. Why is the paper making the charge if it's not true? GOP spin? LOL</font color>

This is just total BS.

Q
<hr /></blockquote> I'm waiting with both barrels loaded. I have the facts lined up, let'er rip Q. Let's see what you got. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

-CM

eg8r
08-03-2004, 03:25 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Questions raised by MM;
Why were the Saudis allowed to leave the coutry without being questioned [ at a time when ALL flights were grounded]? <font color="blue"> This is pretty funny, just last week one of the Saudi's who was "supposed" to have been part of this group said they were not allowed to leave and that MM was lying. </font color>
Why would the Saudis want to invest in an American[ Texas] oil company when they have the biggest oil deposits in the world? <hr /></blockquote>

[ QUOTE ]
Just two questions that require an answer and you are moanng because the date was wrong, not the actual content.
A classic example of GOP spin and you fell for it.
<hr /></blockquote> LOL, classic Q, not being able to see the tree for the forrest. If MM is lying about the nitpicky crap there is no chance he is being truthful on the "relevant" stuff. If he is lying when asking a question, then what is the point of giving an answer? He lied about the Sauds and you still want an answer, what a joke.

eg8r

highsea
08-03-2004, 03:32 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ross:</font><hr> I doubt Iraqi insurgents (many of whom are just paid thugs or kidnappers going for ransoms a la Columbia. See http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/08/03/van.marsh/ ) will go watch Moore's film and then go "let's kill more Americans." This administration has pretty much done all of the alienation of Arabs that could be done. <hr /></blockquote>Well, I wish I shared your confidence. Given that Arab fighters are crossing the borders from Syria and Iran on a daily basis, and the bombings and attacks are getting worse every day, I can't see how showing this film over there is going to do anything but inflame.

Why else would Hezbollah offer to fund the distribution? To convince the people that the US is their friend? Isn't Hezbollah listed by the State Dept. as a terrorist organisation? Moore is making money off this, and just because Hezbollah is one step removed from the company who purchased the film rights doesn't exonerate Moore from doing business with them, imo.

When he was confronted with this, you know what he said? "No comment".

-CM

Ross
08-03-2004, 05:07 PM
"Damn, if it weren't for that Michael Moore film, we would see the US as our friend!" - Hezbollah

(Oh, yeah, there is that other thing about the US sending billions of dollars annually to Israel, our arch-enemy.)

Fair_Play
08-03-2004, 05:10 PM
Nostroke has chosen his user name wisely.. he must have had only one round to fire, and an echo in his own mind. Guys who get into public life vary, just like there are good plumbers and there is G. Gordon Liddy, who got caught. Bush vs. Kerry is kinda like a petty squabble at the local pub, and if you really don't know the players, the good guy can look bad, and the bad guy good. Now, I am VERY partisan, as is Nostroke, we are just different guys, with different opinions. And, we probably both have family who likes us, and friends to shoot with... philosophically, ideologically, pragmatically, well, we probably drive different brands of pick ups, or SUV's or whatever, and we probably make different decisions based on the same parameters.. go figure
All the best to you all!

highsea
08-03-2004, 05:17 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ross:</font><hr> "Damn, if it weren't for that Michael Moore film, we would see the US as our friend!" - Hezbollah

(Oh, yeah, there is that other thing about the US sending billions of dollars annually to Israel, our arch-enemy.)
<hr /></blockquote>I guess we just see this differently Ross. Why throw gasoline on a fire?

-CM

Qtec
08-04-2004, 04:52 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Questions raised by MM;
Why were the Saudis allowed to leave the coutry without being questioned [ at a time when ALL flights were grounded]? <font color="blue"> This is pretty funny, just last week one of the Saudi's who was "supposed" to have been part of this group said they were not allowed to leave and that MM was lying. </font color>
<hr /></blockquote>

eg8r, you believe what you want to believe and you never let FACTS influence your conclusion. LOL

Just for you.......



Watchdog Submits Documents On Saudi Flights To 9/11 Commission

Judicial Watch Turns Over List Of Saudis Flying From U.S. Immediately After Terrorist Attacks



(Washington, D.C.) Judicial Watch, the public interest group that investigates and prosecutes government corruption, yesterday submitted to the 9/11 Commission documents that show that Saudi Arabian nationals, including bin Laden family members, were allowed to fly out of the United States immediately following the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. The documents represent the first admission by the government that the flights occurred at all. <font color="red">Why would they lie about this? </font color> Judicial Watch is asking the 9/11 Commission to investigate and reconcile previous contradictory testimony about Saudis being allowed to leave the country.

The documents, obtained from the Office of Homeland Security’s U.S. Customs and Border Protection through a Freedom of Information Act request, show that 160 Saudis were allowed to leave on 55 commercial flights from airports around the country between Sept. 11 and Sept. 15, 2001. Judicial Watch received no response from six other agencies about the Saudi flights. (For a copy of the documents, visit Judicial Watch’s Internet site at http://www.judicialwatch.org/archive/2004/homelandsecurity.pdf

Author Craig Unger, in a June 1, 2004, New York Times opinion piece, pointed out that the 9/11 Commission is investigating only the departure of 142 Saudis on six charter flights. The commission was never told about the additional 160 Saudis who left.
Although the FBI says that it checked the manifests of the flights taken by the Saudis against its terror watch list, the 9/11 panel has indicated that there is no evidence that happened.

“We believe the American people deserve to know why the bin Laden family and other Saudi nationals were allowed to flee the United States in the days following 9/11 without even being questioned,” said Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton. “We hope to get to the bottom of this disturbing event.”

Q

eg8r
08-04-2004, 06:21 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Why would they lie about this? <hr /></blockquote> Are we to believe that you are now stating that this administration might sometimes tell the truth? Members of the bin Laden family have stated over and over this is untrue.

[ QUOTE ]
eg8r, you believe what you want to believe and you never let FACTS influence your conclusion. LOL
<hr /></blockquote> The FACT is that the actual people believed to be on those flights are adamantly saying they were NOT on the flights.

eg8r