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View Full Version : Intelligence, revisited(LONG)



crawdaddio
08-04-2004, 05:23 PM
I still assert the opinion, which is being supported by fact more and more on a daily basis, that the invasion of Iraq has been fraudulently forced on the American and Iraqi people. Hundreds of American, thousands of Iraqi lives, and BILLIONS of dollars have been wasted on a war that,IMO, should never have happened.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/31/international/middleeast/31inte.html

I have quoted the entire article here because you have to register to view it. Please read.

[ QUOTE ]
Published: July 31, 2004

WASHINGTON, July 30 - A senior leader of Al Qaeda who was captured in Pakistan several months after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks was the main source for intelligence, since discredited, that Iraq had provided training in chemical and biological weapons to members of the organization, according to American intelligence officials.

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Intelligence officials say the detainee, Ibn al-Shaykh al-Libi, a member of Osama bin Laden's inner circle, recanted the claims sometime last year, but not before they had become the basis of statements by President Bush, Vice President Dick Cheney, Secretary of State Colin L. Powell and others about links between Iraq and Al Qaeda that involved poisons, gases and other illicit weapons.

Mr. Libi, who was captured in Pakistan in December 2001, is still being held by the Central Intelligence Agency at a secret interrogation center, <font color="red"> and American officials say his now-recanted claims raise new questions about the value of the information obtained from such detainees.</font color>

A report in Newsweek magazine several weeks ago first identified Mr. Libi's role in the episode. <font color="red"> And the fact that "an Al Qaeda operative" who had provided the most detailed information alleging such ties had backed away from many of his claims was mentioned by the Sept. 11 commission in a brief footnote to the report it issued this month.</font color>

The American officials now say<font color="red"> still-secret </font color> parts of the separate report by the Senate Intelligence Committee, which was released in early July, discuss the information provided by Mr. Libi in much greater detail. The Senate report questions whether some versions of intelligence reports prepared by the C.I.A. in late 2002 and early 2003 raised sufficient questions about the reliability of Mr. Libi's claims.

Separate from the question of Mr. Libi's account, an internal C.I.A. review of its prewar intelligence on Iraq is still under way, continuing a push to evaluate the information used as a rationale for war. The strongest White House assertions of ties between Iraq and Al Qaeda that involved illicit weapons were made beginning in October 2002, when <font color="red"> Mr. Bush said in a speech in Cincinnati that "we've learned that Iraq has trained Al Qaeda members in bomb making and poisons and gases."

In the prelude to the American invasion in March 2003, those claims were echoed often by Mr. Bush and his top advisers, but they have not repeated that allegation for at least six months.</font color>

Intelligence officials declined to say precisely when Mr. Libi changed his account, and they cautioned that they still did not know for sure which account was correct. They said they would not speculate as to whether he might have been seeking to deceive his interrogators or to please them by telling them what he thought they wanted to hear.

But the intelligence officials said Mr. Libi had backed away from many of his earlier claims after American interrogators presented him with conflicting information.<font color="red"> Both Khalid Shaikh Mohammed and Abu Zubaydah, two other high-ranking Qaeda operatives now in American custody, have told interrogators that Al Qaeda had no substantive relationship with the Iraqi government, according to the Senate report.

Neither the Senate committee nor the Sept. 11 commission have found evidence of a collaborative relationship between Iraq and Al Qaeda on any matter, much less illicit weapons, which have not been found in Iraq despite more than a year of intensive searching.</font color>

Mr. Libi's reversal was reported to senior administration officials in an intelligence document that was circulated on Feb. 14, 2004, the intelligence officials said.

<font color="red"> The Senate report says that a highly classified report prepared by the C.I.A. in September 2002 on "Iraqi Ties to Terrorism" described the claims that Iraq had provided "training in poisons and gases" to Qaeda members, but that it cautioned that the information had come from "sources of varying reliability." </font color>

By contrast, it noted that unclassified testimony to Congress in February 2003 from George J. Tenet, then the director of central intelligence, had not included any caveats and thus "could have led the recipients of that testimony to interpret that the C.I.A. believed the training had definitely occurred."

<font color="red"> Most public statements by Mr. Bush and other administration officials on the matter described the assertions as matters of fact. </font color>



(Page 2 of 2)

At the time of his capture, Mr. Libi, a Libyan, was the highest-ranking Qaeda leader in American custody. He had worked closely with Abu Zubaydah at the group's Khalden terrorist camp in Afghanistan, and was believed to have detailed knowledge of the terrorist network's plans.

In an address to the United Nations Security Council in February 2003, Mr. Powell referred at length to Mr. Libi's account of an Iraqi role in illicit weapons training, though he did not identify him. He attributed the account to a "senior Al Qaeda terrorist" who "was responsible for one of Al Qaeda's training camps in Afghanistan."

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The support by Iraq included "offering chemical or biological weapons training for two Al Qaeda associates beginning in December 2000," Mr. Powell said in his speech, adding that a militant known as Abu Abdullah al-Iraqi had described as "successful" a relationship in which he was sent to Iraq several times between 1997 and 2000 "for help in acquiring poisons and gases."

<font color="red"> In recent months, Mr. Powell has spoken publicly of his frustration that some of the central assertions he made in that speech, particularly claims that Iraq possessed illicit weapons, have not been borne out by the facts, despite assurances from Mr. Tenet and the C.I.A. that they were based on solid intelligence. </font color>

People close to Mr. Powell say he is less troubled about the episode involving Mr. Libi, believing that the C.I.A. reported his claims in good faith. Similarly, Congressional officials said, the Senate Intelligence Committee did not criticize the C.I.A., even in the classified section of its report, over the Libi matter.

Intelligence officials said Friday that John E. McLaughlin, the acting intelligence chief, was reviewing a 20-page report by Richard J. Kerr, a former deputy director of central intelligence, that constitutes the agency's most extensive internal review of its handling of prewar intelligence on Iraq. The report by Mr. Kerr, which was submitted to Mr. McLaughlin on Thursday, <font color="red"> is not expected to be made public,</font color> a senior intelligence official said. <hr /></blockquote>

Sid_Vicious
08-04-2004, 07:47 PM
Presenting the perilous falsehoods and apparent lack of facts is proving to be more difficult by far than the admin's skewing of our American public's beliefs, beliefs which have begun us on a dangerous and hated path from the rest of the world. A change in November is totally necessary.

Thanks for the read...sid

eg8r
08-05-2004, 10:09 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I still assert the opinion, which is being supported by fact more and more on a daily basis, that the invasion of Iraq has been fraudulently forced on the American and Iraqi people. <hr /></blockquote> When starting out a "long" post with such flagrantly false acusations in the beginning how would you expect anyone to continue further?

eg8r

crawdaddio
08-05-2004, 10:29 AM
Don't read it if you don't want to..........

eg8r
08-05-2004, 11:07 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Don't read it if you don't want to.......... <hr /></blockquote> Is that the best reply you could come up with? LOL, I accept the fact that you are fine with starting out your posts with a complete lie, this is good information to know prior to reading the rest of your political posts.

eg8r

crawdaddio
08-05-2004, 11:23 AM
Tell me, how can an opinion be a complete lie?
I could refute your assumption that these are fraudulent accusations, but what's the point? We'll just go back and forth again and again.
Read the article, it supports my "accusations".

Sid_Vicious
08-05-2004, 11:57 AM
When it get into this knot-headed zone crawdaddio, there's no sense in even reading certain poster's replies, I don't and I find it is a better feeling that the normal one I experience...you know, when you hold your head in your hands and mutter to yourself, "What rock does this guy live under?" Seriously, I don't even open up the replies when I already know their pre-conceived, head in the sand bias'...sid~~can't understand how some people avoid truths from prominent news services, until it slants their way, especially when our nation's welfare is at stake

eg8r
08-06-2004, 05:29 AM
[ QUOTE ]
"What rock does this guy live under?" <hr /></blockquote> LOL, talk about living under a rock, big bad Sid has come out of hiding to actually make two posts in one thread. Good job big guy you might be coming around... [ QUOTE ]
Seriously, I don't even open up the replies when I already know their pre-conceived, head in the sand bias' <hr /></blockquote> Oops, I spoke too soon and I did not allow for the hypocrisy to come forth. Oh well, I thought there was hope, back to sqaure one.

eg8r

eg8r
08-06-2004, 05:40 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Tell me, how can an opinion be a complete lie?...Read the article, it supports my "accusations".
<hr /></blockquote> Well, you came across as trying to pass opinion as "fact", then regress that it is merely only an opinion, yet then again you change step and start trying to prove it is fact again with an article that supports your "accusation". [ QUOTE ]
I still assert the opinion, which is being supported by fact more and more on a daily basis, that the invasion of Iraq has been fraudulently forced on the American and Iraqi people. <hr /></blockquote> Whether you like it or not, there is not "new" evidence coming out everday supporting your opinion. It is agreed by most that the 9/11 board is pretty unbiased, and they have exonerated Bush and Blair. Do your sources have more "facts" than the Review Board? Is it quite possible that your "facts" are misleading you to believe Bush/Blair are at fault when the real FACT was that it was the intelligence that was bad?

The point of my post was that you don't even give the reader any reason to read what you post since you blatantly make false accusations in the first couple sentences.

However, like a kid holding candy to a baby, you have earned yourself a new budding backup in one-hit-wonder Sid. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif Don't expect anything he says to carry too much merit, as he usually drops to exaggerated delusions with no intent of proof. He is definintely a lot more interesting on the other side of this board and even more so in person. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r