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Ross
08-06-2004, 02:30 PM
This shot came up last night in a gambling game - and it is a pretty common situation (9 foot table with tight pockets, pretty new Simonis):

START(%A[4\4%BD5I6%Cj2G4%DW0J6%EZ2M1%FQ1G4%GS8L6%HT1D9%IM7K 2%Pi0V6
%Q[5N6%Rl4X6%Ue6P0%Vr8U6%WE6J7%Xg7V1%Yr3V0%Zf4[2%[b2R0%\C5J2
%]e3Z9%^C5J6%eB0a2)END

For path A: I need to put left on the cb to avoid the blockers, but I also have to hit at a fairly slow speed to avoid overshooting my position. So there is going to be some speed-dependent cb curve. And under the pressure of competition, I have difficulty being consistent with the long slow-roller shot with english.

How would you shoot it? Would you use a 1/2 tip of left on the equator of the cb, or would you use a bit of low-left, or high left? Do you use your regular stroke or do you short-stroke punch it a bit? How difficult is the long slow roller with english for you?

Or would you consider hitting it firmly and going three rails, like path b? Or would you take someother route?

I took path A and overcut it... /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Eric.
08-06-2004, 02:57 PM
I'll give ya my unexpert .02, Ross /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

I would hit it with a 1/2 tip of left English with 1/2 tip low and try to get 3 rail po. IMO, the 3 rail route gives you a better chance of getting safe if you miss. I would hit it with a stun stroke playing to make sure I get the CB behind the bunch of balls.


Eric >lower percentage shot for me

ras314
08-06-2004, 03:03 PM
I would much prefer to hit that ball with outside english even if it was the 9 ball. I try to keep the cue as level as possible with center line left which seems to reduce the masse effect.

Would seem path B, or even more spin, at enough speed to give the cb about 1/2 table length roll would give you the most room for error. Top or bottom added is going to also change how fast the cb comes off the rail, you need to be fairly familar with the table.

Rod
08-06-2004, 03:26 PM
Ross,

This shot is more of personal preference. If you feel more comfortable shooting it one way compared to another then that might be the best way. If it accomplishes a safe in case you miss then it's even better.

There very well could be some speed dependent curve if the cue isn't as level as possible. The long slow roller with side is iffy for me. I'd never punch the shot since accuracy is a preimum. I would go three rails because I can calculate swerve much better with a little speed. I'd use my slider type stroke (soft longer stroke) with about a tip of low left. My make percentage is high because I like that type of shot. As I said slow is iffy for me, at that distance.

Of course you could cut it in and take your chances. LOL Or you could play a safe, banking it towards the rail by the 8 ball and killing the c/b. If playing a safe the speed would be enough to send it up table.

Rod

stickman
08-06-2004, 04:19 PM
My instinct would be to shoot it with low left. With a little speed and as close as level as possible the swerve should be minimal. I avoid slow rolling whenever possible!

One
08-06-2004, 09:57 PM
I would play it like this:

START(
%A[4\4%BD5I6%Cj2G4%DW0J6%EZ2M1%FQ1G4%GS8L6%HT1D9%IM7K 2%Pi0V6
%SP6N8%Td7G4%Ul8D9%Vq9H6%Yq5K0%ZV9Z6%]T7Y7%^D4K7%eA3b4%_g0G2
%`j2D5%aj1D6%bF5K6%cQ2N3%dg9V1
)END

Use draw with left spin and skid up to the 7-ball. Then 4 rails for position. It is the only correct way to play this shot, unless you don't want good position.

Popcorn
08-06-2004, 10:18 PM
I would do what ever it took to make the ball. Good things and bad things can happen no matter what you do. I don't mind that much if I run into one of the balls on the table as long as I make the ball I am shooting. Odds are you are going to get out, but not if you miss the ball trying to do something funky. It's hard to try to control everything. Just my opinion

crawdaddio
08-06-2004, 10:29 PM
I would play it like this:

START(
%A[4\4%BD5I6%Cj2G4%DW0J6%EZ2M1%FQ1G4%GS8L6%HT1D9%IM7K 2%Pi0V6
%Q[5N6%Rl4X6%SP6N8%Td7G4%]C7D1%^D3H6%eB9`8%_X2G9%`J7I3%aC6J1
%bE6J8%cP9N5%dg9V1
)END

Hit high, a LITTLE bit of left, one rail. Speed sensitive, but good shape for shape on the four.

Chris Cass
08-06-2004, 10:33 PM
Hi Ross,

I'm no pro or expert but in all honesty I shoot the shot this way.
START(
%A[4\4%BD5I6%Cj2G4%DW0J6%EZ2M1%FQ1G4%GS8L6%HT1D9%IM7K 2%Pi0V6
%Rd3^8%UR6E1%VN7C8%WE9K0%Xg7V1%YV3H8%ZS5E7%]M7D1%^C1J4%eC1`9
)END
http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/pooltable2.html

I know it's against the norm but I like my chances of tapping the 4 ball and that's worse case for me. I don't mind clearing the 8 and getting to see the 3 ball.

Your selected way is just as good. I just tend to think it's a bit dangerously apt to go back into the side pocket. My way, I can control the speed easier with using the second rail to slow it down, on new cloth.

There's many things that can be done in this situation. none right or wrong just right for the players confidence. I love these posts. The ones we can all describe our thoughts on different shots.

Your explination of what you'd do makes perfectly good sence. I don't like hitting or disturbing the layout at all. There's sometimes you just have to. I think if I hit the ball bad I would end up doing what is drawn on the Wei table. For worse case senerio still, I would have a clean shot on the 3 ball.

Regards,

C.C.~~ /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Rip
08-06-2004, 10:47 PM
I would miscue and give CC ball in hand. CC would run out!
I'd be pi$$ed!

Rip /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

One
08-06-2004, 10:55 PM
Cueball doesn't fit between the 9 and 6, unless you play like this:

START(
%A[4\4%BD5I6%Cj2G4%DW0J6%EZ2M1%FQ1G4%GS8L6%HT1D9%IM7K 2%Pi0V6
%Tf6G6%UU5I4%VQ6H9%WN9H9%XE7J9%Y`2D8%ZW7I2%[f3G3%\b5D6%]C7D1
%^D3H6%eC2a9%bF1K8%cP0O0%dg9V1
)END

Chris Cass
08-06-2004, 10:56 PM
Hi RIP,

I've missed ya buddy. You scratch and give me BIH? Somehow, I just can't see you doing that. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif What I do see you doing is. If we were playing straight pool and you needed 3 balls and I needed 60? I see you slamming into the rack and saying, "Show me what you got kid." HAHAHAHAHA

I'd be like, WOW. /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Regards,

C.C.~~it ain't a bar box is it? LOL>LOL

haywood
08-07-2004, 01:45 AM
To me, this shot is screaming SAFETY. If it were me, I'd play a pretty fair amount of left and try to bury the 2 up behind the 8. If you do get the 2 buried, where the cue ball ends up doesn't much matter since there'd be no place for your opponent to make it anyways. Kinda something like this.
START(
%A[4\4%BD5I6%Cj2G4%DW0J6%EZ2M1%FQ1G4%GS8L6%HT1D9%IM7K 2%Pi0V6
%Q[5N6%Rl4X6%SP6N8%Tf6G6%UR9D2%VD4I6%WE6J7%Xh6V5%Y]5[2%ZC9J7
%[a6Z5%\]9[3%eB0a2
)END

Just my .02 worth : )

Popcorn
08-07-2004, 02:42 AM
I would really have to disagree. I would never pass on that shot to win the game, it is not even a very hard shot.. A safety doesn't guarantee you will end up with anything better then you have right now. It just guarantees your opponent will be back at the table and able to do something bad to you. By definition, the purpose of a safety in a pool game is to buy you a shot. In this case you have a shot and a pretty good one at that. Can't be waiting around hoping to be left with a ball in the hole or get a ball in hand, you have to shoot if you are to win, especially against good players.

cheesemouse
08-07-2004, 04:59 AM
I like Chris's option here except I like hitting this shot by 'dragging the cb with low inside right' and trying to overcut the 2ball. You mention that the pockets are very tight so missing with the overcut could leave the 2b on the end rail. If I airmail the 2b going in with the inside english I will kick the 2ball into a possible safety or a difficult position...this is a tough shot and having the benefit of knowing how the table had been playing could certainly change what I would do with this situation.

Barbara
08-07-2004, 07:12 AM
But even if you did make the 2 ball and got shape on the three, where are you playing the 4?

Barbara~~~doesn't see it...

One
08-07-2004, 07:40 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Barbara:</font><hr> But even if you did make the 2 ball and got shape on the three, where are you playing the 4?

Barbara~~~doesn't see it... <hr /></blockquote>
START(
%A[4\4%BB6B3%Cj2G4%DW0J6%EZ2M1%FQ1G4%GS8L6%HT1D9%IM7K 2%Pe6H0
%Uf2Z3%Vr2P5%WU2M6%Xd0Z4%YR1K9%ZR9L2%eC3`9%_q6O0%` j9K7%ah6H2
%dN4_0
)END

Barbara
08-07-2004, 08:04 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote One:</font><hr> START(
%A[4\4%BB6B3%Cj2G4%DW0J6%EZ2M1%FQ1G4%GS8L6%HT1D9%IM7K 2%Pe6H0
%Uf2Z3%Vr2P5%WU2M6%Xd0Z4%YR1K9%ZR9L2%eC3`9%_q6O0%` j9K7%ah6H2
%dN4_0
)END <hr /></blockquote>

That's pretty risky, don't you think?

Barbara

Popcorn
08-07-2004, 08:16 AM
I hope you are kidding. The 4 goes in three of the six pockets as it sits now. You can't pass on a layout like that and play safe. That is not an overly complicated runout. If that was the toughest table I ever have to face the rest of my life I would be pretty happy. You win by being at the table and making things happen, not praying for hangers.

Qtec
08-07-2004, 08:24 AM
I agree. I would play the'drag'shot.
Reasons.
1. With a drag shot I will always have a good follow thru. You dont want to poke or hold back on this shot. Played this way, you wouldnt even need LE.
2. Playing with IE, you can never be sure exactly how the position will develop because you are almost certain to kiss 1 or more balls, depending on how hard you play the shot.
3. Playing pocket speed is too dangerous. you cant leave the ball over the pocket for your opponent.

I know if I make the shot I will be in prime pos.If I miss, there is the chance his shot will be blocked by other balls. IMO its the best shot and the best % shot.

Qtec

woody_968
08-07-2004, 08:35 AM
Popcorn, I true you cant wait for hangers, but I also think people must play within their skill level. IMO for many players the safe may be the correct shot here.

ras314
08-07-2004, 09:16 AM
Woody, I have to go along with popcorn here. The two ball is a reasonable shot, if you make it and get reasonable position on the three everything else looks good. Given this good a chance to get out I'm not going to be thinking safty or what kind of shot is going to be left if I miss.

Could be why I miss the first ball of a run so often, greed and overconfidence strikes out most times. /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Chris Cass
08-07-2004, 09:21 AM
Great point Woody,

Not saying I don't disagree with Popcorn. I too am an agressive player. I only think of two options when playing 9 ball. Play safe or run out. I might run down to a safe also. The main thing here is you have to know what your capabilities are. To me as Popcorn, I don't see this run as a problem at all. I too would love to be faced with this rack and getting on the 4 ball isn't a problem either.

It's funny you making this assuption. It's the same thing I was thinking. You've got to know your skills and what suits you. Being a One Pocket buff. I laugh now days when players try to leave me safe. It's like, Dude, you can't safe a One Pocket player. lol

Seriously, both you and Popcorn are pretty much on the money. IMHO

Regards,

C.C.~~ /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Popcorn
08-07-2004, 09:34 AM
What it comes down to is adopting a philosophy of play. In the given example the player has to decide the value of taking the shot as opposed to playing safe. To be honest, I think a weaker player may have more problems with trying to play a safe here that will get them any advantage, then just shooting the shot and seeing what happens. If they are playing a better opponent, say getting weight. They will be even worse off not taking advantage of the playable shot and passing to their opponent, they figure to get the worst of a safety battle. If they are playing an equal opponent who also is not a runout player then the risk of shooting is even less. Either way you should not be passing up chances to win when they are presented, you are just folding possible winning hands. Again, a safe, even a good one, guarantees you nothing. Don't play foolish, but in the same respect don't play scared. What you can get away with against a weak player will not win against a better player, you will never advance your game or pull off an upset playing scared. The thing you have to always remember is, when you decide to shoot, if things don't go as planned it does not necessarily mean you will lose. And again, a safe is played to buy yourself a shot, in this case you have a good shot, safe should not even be a consideration.

One
08-07-2004, 11:11 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Barbara:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote One:</font><hr> START(
%A[4\4%BB6B3%Cj2G4%DW0J6%EZ2M1%FQ1G4%GS8L6%HT1D9%IM7K 2%Pe6H0
%Uf2Z3%Vr2P5%WU2M6%Xd0Z4%YR1K9%ZR9L2%eC3`9%_q6O0%` j9K7%ah6H2
%dN4_0
)END <hr /></blockquote>

That's pretty risky, don't you think?

Barbara <hr /></blockquote>

It doesn't matter if it is risky unless you play for winning. I wouldn't choose a more easier shot with longer position on the 4, I would be very ashamed if I did that. Pool is all about playing as good as possible. Position play longer than 12 cm from the object ball is unacceptable for me.

haywood
08-07-2004, 02:33 PM
Popcorn,
First off, thanks for disagreeing with what I suggested about playing it safe. That's what I really like about this board is that several people put in their thoughts and usually end up showing valid alternatives to what other people suggest.
As far as trying to run this rack out, I would still have to make a case for playing the safety on the 2. The reasons for this are two fold. As Ross initially wrote "(9 foot table with tight pockets, pretty new Simonis)" The angle of attack going after the 2 is pretty sharp where as you'd have to be absolutely perfect to drain the 2, especially if the pockets are tight or like any of the pockets on the Diamond tables that I have played on. Secondly, playing on the big tables, you are going to be shooting from what appears to be about 6-7 feet away. To me, that drastically drops the % of makability of cutting the 2 and getting back around for shape on the 3.
With that being said, I want to say that I am looking at this solely on the way it was laid out in the previous post, and not a real life scenario. Maybe if the 2 were out off the rail a little more or the cut angle was a little less sharp, I would see it differently. But, the way it is laid out, it is MUCH easier to bury the 2 up behind the 8 and get a safe out of it where my opponent has a 2 rail kick at the minimum to get a good hit. The chances of him being able to return the safe are rather low I would think. However, I must say that I might go after your approach to this shot if I were actually looking at it in a game situation with the cheese on the line.

Rod
08-07-2004, 02:43 PM
[ QUOTE ]
That's pretty risky, don't you think?

Barbara
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



It doesn't matter if it is risky unless you play for winning. I wouldn't choose a more easier shot with longer position on the 4, I would be very ashamed if I did that. Pool is all about playing as good as possible. Position play longer than 12 cm from the object ball is unacceptable for me.
<hr /></blockquote>

Patrick, err one

It does matter if it's risky. Risk means your taking a chance. Good players rarely play by chance, they play with an expected outcome not chance. 12 cm eh? Well that's less than 5 inches,not to mention it isn't necessary for most of the game.

If you take a longer easier shot as you say, you'd be ashamed. Well I guess the best players on earth should be ashamed? Hardly since most of the time it's the smart move. Once again back to risk, if your shots are difficult you will miss more. Not only that, when you move balls like your shot it can block another ball. Besides good position can be played on the 4 without moving another ball.

Rod

Popcorn
08-07-2004, 03:43 PM
It does depend on where exactly the balls are. The thing with a safety is, in the one you diagram you will not be getting a ball in hand it will be an easy hit. It may even be possible to soft kick and knock the 2 past the 8 and snooker you with the cueball laying on the 8 or kick the 2 to the end rail, (After your safety I am referring to) leaving you no make able shot at all but maybe a bank. With a safety that will not get you ball in hand and will be hit, you are gambling on having a better shot after the guy kicks and hits the ball. It becomes the bird in the hand thing. After he kicks you may look like a genius or a chump. You make on the spot decisions all the time as you play and sometimes there are no right or wrong things to do, just how you feel at the time. This stuff is easier to brainstorm standing around a pool table.

Chris Cass
08-07-2004, 04:05 PM
Ho Popcorn,

I've played players that will get stuck in the defensive mode. They'll play safe and safe and safe till they end up hanging themselves. I say, play safe when making the ball means not getting out or bih. It's the last resort for me unless I have no choice, I'm going to run till the cows come home. LOL

Regards,

C.C.

1a2b3c
08-07-2004, 07:50 PM
Have we played before?

Chris Cass
08-07-2004, 11:40 PM
Well,

That all depends. Do I owe you money? /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Regards,

C.C.~~conciders playing safe like a locksmith. only it doesn't help against the safecrackers I play with. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Terry
08-08-2004, 04:22 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chris Cass:</font><hr>

I've played players that will get stuck in the defensive mode. They'll play safe and safe and safe till they end up hanging themselves.
Regards,

C.C. <hr /></blockquote>

Hi Chris,

I agree that games/matches are lost sometimes by not changing from defence to offence at the right time. I played one of the best players in my area this past week in the finals a tournament. I beat him on the A side and met him again in the finals with me having the hot seat. He jumped out to a 3-0 lead in a race to 7, I scratched in the fourth game and he had a chance to run out and decided to try and three foul me even though he could have run the table. He lost the safety battle and I won the next six games, he got one more before I closed the match. We talked after the match and he told me the turning point was when I got out of the three foul situation, he said that had he three fouled me his confidence would have gone up and mine would have gone down. I would have takin the 4-0 lead if I was him but I forgot to mention that to him, LOL. In regards to the shot in this thread, I think I would play it similar to Ross. Terry

Chris Cass
08-08-2004, 05:58 AM
Great job Terry,

Getting the turning point down is what good players see. What I mean is, the players that can narrow it down to one shot they remember as the most critical, in winning the match. That player knows him or herself. I highly doubt your confidence would have gone down. Just maybe, his would have gone up.

What he failed to see was, it was the mental part of the game he was playing you with. What he should have done was look at the game as. I have him on 2 and this is, what the table looks like. He should have it in his mind, he has you on 2. Does, he have the chance of running? He knows when he's out. He also knows if he's got the ability to run down to the safe as a last resort. He lost it putting all his eggs into one basket.

Some players think that if they have their opponent on 2. That they, have to try for the 3rd foul. That should be the option and not the only one, if possible. I think we all know when we put a player in gear by our lack of making a critical shot, in the match too. I'm think that's what he was thinking. Not so much that he would have crushed yours. More or less let the air out of his sails.

Maybe he did put you in gear but not because he boosted your confidence, but lost his, in the battle. It's always the other guy and not yourself that made the mistakes. Of course he blamed himself but for the wrong reason.IMHO

I personally think he didn't give you enough credit for shooting the way you did. But Lord knows, someone would think the game wasn't all about them, not their opponent.

The game is all about control as you know. Having an opponent on 2 fouls is like, you having 9 , 8 of diamond, pocket connectors. You could get the flush but there's a better chance of getting the straight. LOL (mix it up a little)

I used to sit and stare, at my opponent while playing. I'd imagine them missing each shot, they took. When they did? I thought it was all because, I put the thought in their mind. Funny, stupid mind games can put you in way too deep. Now, I just play the table. That's it and it works very good. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I think you did a good job,

C.C.

Barbara
08-08-2004, 08:44 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chris Cass:</font><hr>Some players think that if they have their opponent on 2. That they, have to try for the 3rd foul. That should be the option and not the only one, if possible.

I think you did a good job,

C.C. <hr /></blockquote>

I totally concur with this.

Sometimes when I'm playing safe, I'll play a two-shot to maybe open up a bad situation on the table that'll make for an easier runout should I get BIH from my opponent.

Unless the table is a total wreck, just because I have my opponent on 2 doesn't mean I'm going for 3. And this can screw with your opponent's head because they have no idea what you're going for.

Good going Terry!

Barbara

One
08-08-2004, 09:35 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr> Patrick, err one

It does matter if it's risky. Risk means your taking a chance. Good players rarely play by chance, they play with an expected outcome not chance. 12 cm eh? Well that's less than 5 inches,not to mention it isn't necessary for most of the game.

If you take a longer easier shot as you say, you'd be ashamed. Well I guess the best players on earth should be ashamed? Hardly since most of the time it's the smart move. Once again back to risk, if your shots are difficult you will miss more. Not only that, when you move balls like your shot it can block another ball. Besides good position can be played on the 4 without moving another ball.

Rod <hr /></blockquote>
You don't improve your game if you play easy shots all the time, there is no point in doing that. You need to be as offensive as possible. That's why the best pros in the world are such bad players, they play a "safe" game and don't take any risks, so their cueball control will continue to stay bad. The shots they make are too easy so they will start getting relaxed and not use a good stroke. That's why there is such a big difference between snooker and pool players.

If you try to play "optimal" position you must concentrate harder and your stroke must be as consistent as snooker players', but in pool you need to optimize the stroke mostly for speed control (no pauses in stroke and not as much level cue) so it gets harder to get an accurate stroke. I only use the short snooker stroke for difficult shots, like if another ball blocks half the pocket, or a thin soft cut in the side pocket with inside spin. But speed control is not as good for this.

Terry
08-08-2004, 05:45 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chris Cass:</font><hr>

Getting the turning point down is what good players see. What I mean is, the players that can narrow it down to one shot they remember as the most critical, in winning the match. That player knows him or herself. I highly doubt your confidence would have gone down. Just maybe, his would have gone up.

<hr /></blockquote>

Chris, I think you hit the nail on the head.He knew the turning point in the match but he thinks it was when I jumped out of his saftey and I think its the same point in the match but it's because he didn't run the table for a 4-0 lead. We played each other many times before with both of us winning our share, and we meet in the finals a lot. His confidence was a little shy of where it usually is and he was trying to bring mine down but at the same time he was really more concerned about bringing his up. BTW, Good Luck at the open, Terry

Chris Cass
08-08-2004, 08:48 PM
Hi One,

Are you totally out of your mind? Where would you come up with a thought like that? Never mind, just send me some in the mail. I'll get my own papers. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Regards,

C.C.

Popcorn
08-08-2004, 08:52 PM
Cueck out his web site, it is patrick

Chris Cass
08-08-2004, 08:58 PM
Didn't have to tell me that. I could tell the minute he opened his nero cells. His micro fiber twitching hand and wild seesaw stroke.

Regards,

C.C.~~thanks for always looking out for me Popcorn. I know a couple things and one is that, I like having you for a friend. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Ross
08-09-2004, 01:07 PM
Thanks to all who made suggestions for this shot. I played around with most of them, and found that any of the slow-rolling options was the worst for me, giving me the lowest % of sinking the ball and the was the most difficult to get position. I almost always overshot my position mark and ended up close to the opposite end rail when trying the 1-rail route.

With the cb set up about a foot closer to the 2-ball I had good success with the low-outside 4 rail route. It allowed me to use a firm stroke and the position I got was pretty consistent. The only problem was that sometimes I ended up not having quite enough speed to really come off the 4th rail as far as I needed to, and it left me with an awkward but makeable shot on the 3.

I shot CC's inside english, but I didn't have the blocking 8 ball in place so I didn't really test that aspect. I think it would have worked pretty well though. Without the 8 ball interfering, the cb ended up again at the opposite end rail. I was surprised that my pocketing percentage was actually pretty high using inside english.

I guess this exercise reminded me that in 9-ball to use the rails to control cb speed, and to not try to "hold up" the cb on thin cuts unless I have to. I've learned this lesson repeatedly, but somehow in competition I keep forgetting it. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Chris Cass
08-09-2004, 03:52 PM
Hi Ross,

It helps a great deal to use the open bridge when trying to get the table speed down. It's not only for the vision. You'll tend to hit the ball harder with the closed bridge. JAT I'm not sure of the bridge you used?

Regards,

C.C.

Ross
08-09-2004, 04:14 PM
Chris, thanks for the comment. I usually use an open bridge. For the 4 rail position one of my problems with speed control is being 100% accurate on where I contact the cb. Sometimes I will contact the cb a couple of mm's off where I intended (usually toward the cb center), then I don't get as much spin as I anticipated, and I come up a bit short. (I think my ex used that last phrase one time - I can't remember the context though! /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif )

For the 1 rail position (outside english), I think everyone would have problem not overrunning the three ball on a table with Simonis. That is a pretty thin cut. If you have time, set the shot up the way I diagrammed it and let me know whether the 1-rail position works for you.