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Malice
08-08-2004, 02:06 PM
I played in a tournament this weekend for the first time with a teammate I've only known for about 10 weeks. On paper we're very strong, but we bombed in actual play. Seems like both of us mistrusted each other's game. Most games we lost it seemed were because we elected to play safe over trying to run, and we got burned. We also spent too much energy into creating ideal shape.

Seems to me the teams that have experience playing together and know each other's game well do better. In my personal experience, the times I've placed 1st/2nd/3rd have all come from parters I've played with in tourneys before.

AndreaWilson
08-08-2004, 02:50 PM
I agree with you when you say that it is important to know your partners game, but only to the extent that when left with a difficult choice, you can choose to play to your partners strengths rather than your own. This is all fine and dandy except there is enough mental overhead when you are competing. The last thing you want to do is add to it. It is more important that you are comfortable with your partners "playing" personality and that you are supportive of eachother more than anything.

In May of 2000, my hubby and I played in the BCA Open Scotch Doubles. This was our first time to Vegas and with the exception of four practice scotch matches with friends at our home room, we had never played Scotch Doubles before. We noticed early on that in many, many, many (BUT NOT ALL) cases the men were so intense, they were playing to their own skill set, somewhat oblivious to their partners needs. Then, if their partner missed or left them poor shape on the next ball, we saw no mental flexibility. They would get down on a very difficult shot and still try to make it rather than play a safety. When they missed, they where instantly blaming their partner. Their partners where afraid to approach the damn table let alone shoot a ball. We even saw some women in tears. We agreed right away that if either of us started to even remotely send negative messages we were allowed to simply say stop it. No explanation required. Anyway the benefit of identifying the need for remaining comfortable with eachother throughout the event paid off for us. We won the finals in 24 minutes with a total of 8 team turns at the table. So yes, while strength in playing ability is obviously important, so is comfort zone.

I have sinse found that rather than try to read my partners thoughs, I would play a leave that I know I could handle. With him being the stronger player I would leave it to him to "fix it honey". Hee Hee. Most of the time he could and some times he couldn't, but we have had a lot of fun, but have never entered any event thinking we should win it.

Good luck and enjoy the game. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Rod
08-08-2004, 06:59 PM
Hi Andrea,

I agree, the last thing you need is a lot of mental overhead. I've run a lot of scotch doubles tournaments, the winners usually trusted their partner and decisions. It won't be right every time, so you just have to work with what's left. Accept the fact if your left poor they didn't mean to put you in that situation. No comments or weird looks and just play it to the best of your ability. Once doubt or having fun becomes an issue, your doomed.

Many times teams talk way to much saying play it like this ect. Your partner may pick a shot or route your just not comfortable with. Disaster in the making. In Vegas as you know with one time out per game that's only possible one time and I like that rule.
We had Vegas warm up tournaments and played by the same rules. Of course you could clear your throat pat your hand or foot or whatever signals you devise if any.

I will say though, I think it's fairly important to know your partners playing style. Sometimes there is a big difference in ability. With that I think it's the better players job to leave their partner with an easier shot, position route, etc. If you know their style it helps. When ability level is close, just play your own game.

I played with a gal that didn't have a partner one day. We played a couple of games together and I found she didn't have a playing style! LOL Well her style was make the ball which is a plus. Where the c/b went however left me in many tough situations, not only to make the ball but leave her decent or good position. I knew it was going to be tough but I accepted that going in so we just played and had fun. We beat some great teams but it finally wore on me and we lost because I missed a shot or two in key situations. We finished in the money however and we had a great time.

BTW congrats on your Vegas win.

Rod

SPetty
08-08-2004, 07:05 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr> Of course you could clear your throat pat your hand or foot or whatever signals you devise if any.<hr /></blockquote>And that raises another question... How many of you use these types of signals when playing scotch doubles? Would you be a fool not to use secret signals? Are are you cheating by using secret signals?

Rod
08-08-2004, 07:34 PM
One cough means you might be taking the wrong shot, Two means your definately taking the wrong shot! LOL Just don't clear or cough even if you need too, because you can't say I didn't mean to cough. LOL

Seriously I never have or will but some do. I'd think it's an infraction of the rules should someone care to inforce it. The purpose of the rule is to speed up play to my knowledge. Signals could slow play. I don't know the exact rules. I think it goes back to mental overhead though as it might confuse your partner.

Rod

Wally_in_Cincy
08-09-2004, 06:29 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote AndreaWilson:</font><hr>
....When they missed, they where instantly blaming their partner. Their partners where afraid to approach the damn table let alone shoot a ball. We even saw some women in tears....<hr /></blockquote>

Many moons ago the CCB discussed how cool it would be to have some scotch-doubles professional tourneys. My first thought was "Who would want to be Earl's partner?" /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Re: the original post, the more you know about your partner's game the better off you are. A man's got to know his partner's limitations.

AndreaWilson
08-09-2004, 11:41 AM
Thanks Rod. By the way, there are NO time outs anymore - for the last couple of years now it has been that way. It makes for an interesting game. What I find funny is the "signaling" that goes on that is not supposed to. It's pretty funny, but the funniest thing I had happen was a woman had come up to me a couple of rounds before the finals, after we had played her and her partner, and asked me how I ended up with a partner with the same last name. I had a choice of laughing or answering her so I told her, "Well, once I saw this guy play pool, I decided I better marry him to keep him to myself" she responded with "Ya Right!" I said, "Why don't you ask my husband why we have the same last name." She was so dumbfounded that we were STILL married and could play Scotch Doubles together, I just had to laugh and feel sorry for her, but based on what we had seen in many other teams, I was able to understand why she was shocked by the fact that we even risked trying to play together.

We still think back to that day no matter where we are and we giggle and get warm fuzzy feelings. What a lot of fun that was. With that being our first visit to Vegas, winning 3 - $1000 Jackpots in the casino and numerous small ones as well as cashing in both our singles and our team events, we were immediately addicted to Vegas in May. Of course with the BCA and ACS(CCS for us) situation, we will now have Reno and Vegas in May just to cover all the bases. Yippee!!!

How exciting for Chris Cass to be playing in the US Open next month. Too soon for us this year, but next year I want to enter my hubby in the Open as a birthday present and I'll play in the ccb tourney.

Take care,

Rod
08-09-2004, 12:29 PM
[ QUOTE ]
<hr /></blockquote> By the way, there are NO time outs anymore - for the last couple of years now it has been that way.

OOps, looks like I'm behind times, nothing unusual.

It's great you have an understanding and many do. However the other half here will rarely take any advice, from anyone. I give her a lesson about every two years if I'm asked. Then it can only be one topic, if we work with left english as an example, it's only left, no right. LOL Needless to say we never play together because if i say anything it's the brush off even if shooting the wrong ball in a rotation game like 9 ball. It happened. LOL

You should find out how the planets were aligned those days in Vegas. What a week.

Rod

AndreaWilson
08-09-2004, 05:44 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr>
.... However the other half here will rarely take any advice, from anyone. I give her a lesson about every two years if I'm asked. Then it can only be one topic, if we work with left english as an example, it's only left, no right. LOL Needless to say we never play together because if i say anything it's the brush off even if shooting the wrong ball in a rotation game like 9 ball. It happened. LOL

Rod <hr /></blockquote>

You are a very gutsy man Rod...trying to teach the other half how to drive...I mean play pool. Hubby and I tried that once and it DID NOT WORK. I went and did drills on my own and read lots of books. What I would suggest is drawing out some drills for her to do and writing out the explanation as if you were giving the drill to a beginner to use on their own. Many times we skip important information when communicating with our spouse. Better yet, buy her some lessons from a local certified instructor.

Good luck! /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif