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rocky
08-10-2004, 01:56 PM
What is the normal split when someone is backing you 60/40, 50/50 or what

woody_968
08-10-2004, 02:32 PM
It all depends on what you agree on, and what costs other than the may be involved. I always had 50/50, but I am small time /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

BillPorter
08-10-2004, 03:09 PM
Unless there is some other arrangement, the usual split is 50/50. Of course, in case of a loss, the backer is out the whole 100%. I'm sure there are many variations, but that's the standard rule.

Chris Cass
08-10-2004, 03:40 PM
IMHO Backer takes all losses. If you win you get 50% minus table time (from the take, yours and mine)if applicable and you get at min 5% jelly of the net for shooting. Food if any is taken out your end and any other expenses you incure if neccesary. 10% jelly is what I give when I find a good opportunity, I'm not a tight a$$.

I give the jelly because the shooter is doing all the work and if I'm doing the backing you can bet high I'm winning.

Regards,

C.C.~~nothing for the IRS. unless, their racking. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Popcorn
08-10-2004, 07:30 PM
50 50 after expenses (table time) pretty common. I find most backers to be nothing more then parasites. They get in on good games just because the player doesn't have any money. Most of the time it is a steal or they would not be involved. I am not talking about road partners but the occasional game you see in the pool, room. The biggest steal is when a guy says "I will take half your action". He is making an even money bet and usually gives nothing extra to the player, and if he is involved, it will always be a steal. There is another kind of backer and that is the guy who hangs around and wants to be one of the guys and gets taken advantage of. Players will take shots with his money in a bad game. He never wins, he is just a step above the guy that runs for coffee and may even get dumped. Another kind is the guy who just likes the action, he has no motive and may even give all the money to the player if it was a robbery.

Chris Cass
08-10-2004, 11:37 PM
Hi Popcorn,

You forgot one, me. I'd rather back myself before I back anyone else no matter what the game. I will back someone if they approach me and want to get the action. That comes with one condition usually. I need to know the players. I've seen too many players roll over and I want no part of it. Now, if my buddy is playing and needs the doe? I might just loan it to him and pay me back but that doesn't happen in most cases because, I'm not loaded and need every dime I have for myself.

If a friend needs a back and the action is there and he's begging me and I know he's not about to torpedo me then, I'll let him play. I'll tell him the deal straight then and there and I will give the jelly.

I do like your knowledge in this area and I know for a fact that I've seen and known all you've mentioned. Nothing that pi$$es me off more than a guy that just wants to play and needs the back but could care less if he wins or loses. It's all about the gamble for him and could care less what he'll lose out of your pocket. Those guys I call a$$wipes.

We currently have a lump like that running around our hall as we speak. This guy I beat up for $5. a game 9 ball bar box. It was dead and he walked. I was playing and I've known his adventures of past. Walking out on a guy for a C-note. He told him he was going to the ATM. Ya right, he forgot to mention that the ATM was in Ancorage Alaska.

I never thought he'd stiff me for $5. a game but I ended up winning $60. It took me 2 mths to get it back. Still it wasn't paid. I had to make him square up with another guy I lost playing some gin with. I don't even play gin but I knew he owed the guy some doe. I quit dead at $60. loser just to break even. I atleast learned the game.

Anyway, this lump walks in the hall with the fella you describe as the pigion backer. He wants to play some and has $500. to lose. You don't know how much I wanted to tell him, "You got me." but after saying hello to the guy and seen he was clueless, I felt bad for the guy.

Lucky thing, I didn't have any doe. Well, I wasn't going to fire air barrels either. That's not my style. I wasn't sweating the kids action as I've known his game for yrs. He is an "A" player but I have him mentally. The back will fall into a trap for someone else but it won't be me. I could have easily found a back too but, I don't want a backer. I don't like to share and while he's sitting a relaxing I'm working for him. Guess, I'm getting old. Unless, it was really something to write home about. It just ain't happening.


Regards,

C.C.~~I won't back even a friend if he's not about to put 100% of himself into winning. jmho

woody_968
08-11-2004, 08:03 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> The biggest steal is when a guy says "I will take half your action". He is making an even money bet and usually gives nothing extra to the player, <hr /></blockquote>

In a case like that I told them they could back me for half the action, so their half was still 50/50 just like they were backing the whole thing. So on a 100 dollar set I would be putting up 50 to win 75 /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Chris Cass
08-11-2004, 08:16 AM
Wow Woody,

You sure do like that jelly. /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif I'd give ya 10% of my end but 20.5? I don't know about that brah.

LOL,

C.C.

woody_968
08-11-2004, 08:38 AM
LOL, as I said before most of the time it was just nickel and dime stuff. I have had a few times (one just the other night) where someone had a large side bet and gave me 10% of his cut. But most of the time I dont like big side bets on the games I play, thats money he could be betting with me. I let it go the other night because I am friends with the guy that offered the side bet (everyone in the game was friends) and I didnt really have the cash to put up 140 beans per game of one pocket /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Popcorn
08-11-2004, 09:47 AM
No one should bet with the guy you are playing but you. If he wants to raise the bet he should bet with you, not on the side. It is no one else's business if or why you don't want to raise the bet if he asks and you say no and they should not get involved. Sometimes you have good reason for not raising the bet. You may be on short barrels, or you may have a guy stuck and want to keep him like that and bleed him to death. Raising the bet and having him win a few games could be all it takes to put him back in the game you want to keep him down. Also money he loses on the side could be money you would have eventually won even at the smaller bet. Not everybody is a $100. a game player and it is best to keep the bet at what you are comfortable with and just try to bust the guy like that. I learned a real lesson about money on the side when I was like 17 years old. I was stuck real bad to a guy playing on a bar table and was done. I asked to go to a near by bowling ally to play some more on a 9 foot table and he agreed. Every body followed us over there and we started playing. I began winning and in a short time the guy came over to me and told me he was done. I thought he was just quitting me, I was still stuck money but that was OK he could quit if he wanted. Thats not what happened, his friend had the money and lost it all betting on the side. Needless to say, I never got anything but I learned a lesson about what can happen. If two guys just want to bet with each other that is none of my business but not with the player I am playing or his backer. In that case I have something coming if I win.

BillPorter
08-11-2004, 02:36 PM
Popcorn, I can see you logic here, but short of pulling out a gun, how are you going to stop the guy you are playing from taking bets from the railbirds? Not trying to start an argument here, just a genuine question.

Popcorn
08-11-2004, 04:13 PM
There is nothing you can do. If he initiates it, so be it, I can't tell him what to do. It is the guy from the side lines that forces his way in that is the problem, he should know better. When I would be playing some local champ I would always try to bet on the side. I could be playing a $3.00 player and have $50.00 bet on the side. I know in advance I probably can't win much from the player, he may just be some kid, so there is nothing really wrong with betting on the side, but the player should have the first refusal. Like I said though, If I say want to play for more and he says no, no one on the side should jump up saying "I'll bet, I'll bet". They should not bet unless asked.

cheesemouse
08-11-2004, 08:55 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote BillPorter:</font><hr> Popcorn, I can see you logic here, but short of pulling out a gun, how are you going to stop the guy you are playing from taking bets from the railbirds? Not trying to start an argument here, just a genuine question. <hr /></blockquote>

"There is more than one way to skin a cat"

I'm not saying I was proud of this action but this guy deserved it. My self and another guy had for two weeks laid the ground work for a game with this guy, the guy had the word "Dragonslayer" in sparkly letters on his hard case, what a dork...LOL...anyways he had come into some serious money thru an insurance settlement. The guy was not stupid and was pretty gun shy, thinking everyone was out to rob him on the table. Of course this was true and my buddy and I got the first good swing at him, me being the player and my buddy playing the backer. Our plan was to bleed the guy slowly and not to high roll him but rather keep him liking the game for weeks if we could manage it.
In our first session, giving the breaks and the wild seven for $40 a rack we were comfortably $400 or $500 ahead after some hours of play when this local pimp nicknamed "Bull" came in and started wolfing at our boy to side bet him $200 a game on the side...Our boy was smart enough to say he was down money getting the breaks and the w/seven but if we would give him the w/six he would take the side bet...
This is the part I'm not proud of...we excepted and commenced to dump the next five straight games losing $1000 bucks of Bull's bucks into the pocket of the Dragonslayer. Bull pulled up when he figured out what was what...sorry about your luck Bull...LOL...anyways......now without the side action our guy wants to go back to just the $40 a rack. No way pigeon not after we had just put easy money in your pocket. We got him to keep the bet at $200 and took him off for just short of $4000 in like 14 hours. By the time he pulled up we were giving the snaps and the 4 ball.
I guess the moral of the story is: pool side betters beware. If racehorse's could talk to each other the race tracks would be empty.
Now I know some of you'sss will be saying 'shame on you', 'this is just what gives pool a bad name' and all the other moral stuff but all I could say to that is "Gambling at the game of pool is brutal on both sides of the fence, it always has been and it always will be". That is not to say that you can't make a good friendly game of pool but when the moneys get serious and the strangers get stranger your antenna should not be in the down position...LOL

PQQLK9
08-11-2004, 09:42 PM
Cheese you are my idol /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Popcorn
08-12-2004, 12:14 PM
I just didn't want to say that, but there is no guarantee I will play well or even not quit leaving the guy on the side stuck. I had a guy actually yell at me once because I was in the habit of giving the 9 ball to a player I was playing. He was betting on the side and couldn't stand it. "Too bad".