PDA

View Full Version : Jump cues going to be illegal next year.



Chopstick
08-17-2004, 08:37 AM
I just played a Florida Men's Pro Tour event, the Planet Nine Ball Open. I didn't see anyone using jump cues so I ask the diredtor if they were legal in this tournament. He told me that they were legal this year but the BCA or other organization was talking about make them illegal next year. Has anyone heard anything about this?

Nostroke
08-17-2004, 09:26 AM
Nope-Too many manufacturers with plenty of influence IMHO

Billy
08-17-2004, 12:36 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Nostroke:</font><hr> Nope-Too many manufacturers with plenty of influence IMHO <hr /></blockquote>

don't be surprised if all the short cues are banned within the next couple of years (in competition play anyway)

and deservingly so

jmo

Sid_Vicious
08-17-2004, 12:49 PM
Ya know, for the game of 9-ball on TV especially, the jumper is like the pass was in football when it first came to the public, damn appealing to the public, so it stuck, even though the avid football fans still mostly believed the defensive game was superior, general fans like myself loved to see the pass(and also the jumper.) If the jump cues do indeed get banned then I feel like the billiard industry just took a step back into their lack luster appeal syndrome. I sincerely believe that couch potatoes quickly turn their eyes to the TV when they see the short jumper coming out of the case, and if it's J. Lee or a male pro hitting a pocket on the shot and gaining position...it gets a lot of applause from the stands. "Why would the TV sponsors want that removed???sid

tateuts
08-17-2004, 12:52 PM
The USPPA, which is an amateur tournament membership organization, has banned their use officially starting next year. That's probably where the information came from. The jump shot is still legal, just short cues will be banned.

Chris

stickman
08-17-2004, 02:50 PM
We'll just have to wait and see. I like my jumper, but if they are not allowed, I'll still jump. After you master the art of jumping with a short cue, it's not so hard to learn to jump with a longer cue.

Troy
08-17-2004, 03:02 PM
The ban on jump cues is also supported by the Sands, the host of the Sands-Reno Open. Therefore, "short" cues, ie, jump cues, will be banned at ALL events at the Sands as well as all USPPA events.

Troy
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote tateuts:</font><hr> The USPPA, which is an amateur tournament membership organization, has banned their use officially starting next year. That's probably where the information came from. The jump shot is still legal, just short cues will be banned.

Chris <hr /></blockquote>

tateuts
08-17-2004, 03:27 PM
Personally, I think it's unfortunate and short sighted for organizations to ban the jump cue, even though I don't use one. There is a lot of skill involved with jump shots, with or without a jump cue.

Chris

Sid_Vicious
08-17-2004, 03:28 PM
I jump ok with a long cue, of course nothing quite like the JC. I I truly feel that there is appeal especially in the amateur ranks for using the jumpers. If the "powers to be" shut down their usage in the venues already mentioned, then I expect that cry-baby gamblers will undoubtedly start using the restriction as well in their bartering system, AND then we have the local BCA(and whatever the new league system is called)...if and when they jump on the anti-JC bandwagon, well..it ain't gonna affect everybody, but I contend that it's a back step from the reason for local leagues, PURE FUN. I'll admit that I have a vested interest since I own several jumpers, still to me this trend to ban these things is a negative direction for a struggling spectator sport.

One thing more, the danger of ripping a cloth is far better with a long cue, so I'd think twice about allowing any jumps at all. Hell it's a flat surface game, make it a foul to leave that environment like in the game of snooker, in absolutely any way, including breaking on the fly, and mini jumps during masses. It would be simpler to judge and safer all the way around to do that...sid

Koenig
08-17-2004, 03:34 PM
Itīs understandable but I think this will give the European and Asian players more edge in the future. Over here almost everyone is a fair jumper. And the Asians... well... There are more and more big events out there, besides the WPC, and I want to se the Americans at their best.

But like I said understandable - it really shouldīnt be a circus. 2 cues are enough. But please wait for the WPA!

woody_968
08-17-2004, 03:44 PM
I have to agree with Sid on this one. Not only do I enjoy using a jumper, and enjoy the fact that it can make the game more offensive, I think they will be taking a step back as far as what people want to see on TV.

I watched the Derby City Ring game and gotta tell ya I enjoyed seeing them play a very offensive game, and pulling out the jump cue when that was the best chance they had to make a ball was a big part of it.

Billy
08-18-2004, 02:52 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Sid_Vicious:</font><hr> Ya know, for the game of 9-ball on TV especially, the jumper is like the pass was in football when it first came to the public, damn appealing to the public, so it stuck, even though the avid football fans still mostly believed the defensive game was superior, general fans like myself loved to see the pass(and also the jumper.) If the jump cues do indeed get banned then I feel like the billiard industry just took a step back into their lack luster appeal syndrome. I sincerely believe that couch potatoes quickly turn their eyes to the TV when they see the short jumper coming out of the case, and if it's J. Lee or a male pro hitting a pocket on the shot and gaining position...it gets a lot of applause from the stands. "Why would the TV sponsors want that removed???sid <hr /></blockquote>

it's not so much the tv sponsors that want it removed or not removed,it's the players themselves that have come to the obvious conclusion that in short it makes the game easier.

and you should never make a game as skillful as pool any easier

jmo

catscradle
08-18-2004, 04:43 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Sid_Vicious:</font><hr> Ya know, for the game of 9-ball on TV especially, the jumper is like the pass was in football when it first came to the public, damn appealing to the public, so it stuck, even though the avid football fans still mostly believed the defensive game was superior, general fans like myself loved to see the pass(and also the jumper.) If the jump cues do indeed get banned then I feel like the billiard industry just took a step back into their lack luster appeal syndrome. I sincerely believe that couch potatoes quickly turn their eyes to the TV when they see the short jumper coming out of the case, and if it's J. Lee or a male pro hitting a pocket on the shot and gaining position...it gets a lot of applause from the stands. "Why would the TV sponsors want that removed???sid <hr /></blockquote>

Until more people play pool themselves all the gimmicks in the world aren't going to turn pool in to a serious entertainment sport. Let's face it, if you don't play the game and love the game pool is boring to watch, jump cues or no jump cues. People will swing by ESPN2 see Jeanette Lee's butt or a jump cue and say isn't that nice then "click" move on to the next channel. After they've cycled through all their other favorite channels and couldn't find something more interesting like Bass fishing, then maybe they'll watch the pool or maybe they'll decide mowing the lawn is more interesting.
As to the original question. Despite the fact that I can jump virtually anything with a jump cue and almost nothing with my playing cue, I'd loved to see jump cues banned. I'm not sure that's possible at this point however.

Sid_Vicious
08-18-2004, 07:24 AM
That dog won't hunt, else we'd be playing straight pool and not nine ball on TV, and certainly NOT 7-ball! Television and the media mandates what sells to viewers, the players mainly bitch, which has been one of the added reasons things suck in the industry, the men's for sure, and the women's too, just not as much...sid

Troy
08-18-2004, 08:04 AM
Jump shots will be allowed. Only jump cues will be banned.

Troy
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote tateuts:</font><hr> Personally, I think it's unfortunate and short sighted for organizations to ban the jump cue, even though I don't use one. There is a lot of skill involved with jump shots, with or without a jump cue.

Chris

<hr /></blockquote>

Rich R.
08-18-2004, 08:37 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Nostroke:</font><hr> Nope-Too many manufacturers with plenty of influence IMHO <hr /></blockquote>
I have to agree with Nostroke on this issue.

You can predict most happenings, by following the money path.

The BCA is made up of many manufacturers.
They make regular cues, break cues and jump cues.
Would they be willing to cut their own businesses, by banning jump cues.

I think not. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Why do you think the BCA promotes 9-ball, a game requiring 3 cues, for most players, instead of 14-1 straight pool, a game requiring only 1 cue? /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Tom_In_Cincy
08-18-2004, 08:52 AM
There are a few 'regional' tours that are 'jumping' on the bandwagon. NO MORE JUMP CUES.

How many tournaments has anyone seen with the JUMP Cues putting up the prize money? or even part of it?

None, that I know of on the west coast, and the rooms are making the decision to Ban the JUMP Cue.

Jumping is still allowed with your regular playing cue or break cue.

Jump cue manufacturers have made a lot of money, quickley, from the players that have followed this trendy little stick.

Stealth, Bungee and other brand names have yet to hold any contests with their product. I wonder why?

Tom_In_Cincy
08-18-2004, 09:50 AM
Sid,
Today is the future of pool. The numbers indicate pool is an amature game (not a sport) but a game.

Professional pocket billiards is nothing more than 'time filler' for ESPN. If you noticed, only billiard ads are on these 'fillers'. Very rarely is there a non-billiard ad.

9000 pool players (99.9% amature) showed up in Vegas in June 2004 to play the game on 256 Seven foot tables. There will be other amature events in Vegas and Reno this year, that will probably total more than 15,000 players.

And what game is being played? 8 ball!

9 ball, 7 ball, 14.1 and Trick shots on TV are not going to make pocket billiards more popular, IMO, it will come from the amature ranks. Huge tournaments at resort and gaming towns. A venue to include pocket billiards with a great vacation in a town that offers more bang for the buck.

IMO, until the pros are willing to work for coporate sponsorship, they are stuck where they are.

If you want more added money in tournament, why not hold a car wash and ask the players to wash cars? Instead of a fund raiser for charity, it will be for the 'added' money for a tournament. Do you think anyone would show up to work?

This is exactly what players do in the amature ranks for their trips to Vegas. They have fund raisers.

What do the pros do to promote the game?

IMO Pocket billiards is not even close to being as good as the major league sports. Even Poker is more popular. Even the ESPN "X-Games" are more popular.

Consentrating on what is working well, is going to be difficult enough. To try to make a silk pouch out of a sow's ear is what it will take to make pocket billiards on the same level as the lowest level of the Major League Sports.

Rod
08-18-2004, 11:35 AM
[ QUOTE ]
How many tournaments has anyone seen with the JUMP Cues putting up the prize money? or even part of it?
<hr /></blockquote>

Good question, I can't think of one.


[ QUOTE ]
Jump cue manufacturers have made a lot of money, quickley, from the players that have followed this trendy little stick.

All they did was jump on a growing band wagon. Once some players see them they want to be part of the trend. Even though a jump shot might make up 1% of the total game.

Stealth, Bungee and other brand names have yet to hold any contests with their product. I wonder why? <hr /></blockquote>


Jump Shot Magic. LOL Can you imagine? The trick shot shows include a shot or two which is more than enough. If you get bored with trick shots you sure as hell would be bored with jump shots only. I'd put that even with curling. LOL

Rod

stickman
08-18-2004, 03:44 PM
Hey, I like to watch curling! LOL Maybe I'm just easily entertained. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I'd rather watch curling on ESPN than a spelling bee. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

woody_968
08-18-2004, 04:31 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Billy:</font><hr>
it's not so much the tv sponsors that want it removed or not removed,it's the players themselves that have come to the obvious conclusion that in short it makes the game easier.

and you should never make a game as skillful as pool any easier

jmo <hr /></blockquote>

As far as the players not wanting jump cues I think it would be interesting to see some kind of poll on if they should be allowed or not. If all pool players were polled and had one vote I dont think they would be banned.

If the game shouldnt be made easier then we should get away from this Simonis cloth, go back to the slow cloth they used to play on. And take the tables back to 5 x 10 instead of their current size, in fact lets ban bar boxes /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Not directing this at you Billy, just trying to here some more comments on the subject.

Rod
08-18-2004, 06:48 PM
You have a point although I watched part of a spelling bee. Smart kids. I have watched curling, although a bit slow paced, it's intresting if your snowed in. LOL

Sid_Vicious
08-18-2004, 07:20 PM
"Not directing this at you Billy, just trying to here some more comments on the subject"

Ditto. Easier??? Well I've witnessed some of the top pro players trying a jump with a JC, balls a good 1.5 to 2 widths away, and they topped the obstructing ball. Tell me that THAT is easy if they themselves F'it up like that? sid

Billy
08-18-2004, 11:49 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote woody_968:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Billy:</font><hr>
it's not so much the tv sponsors that want it removed or not removed,it's the players themselves that have come to the obvious conclusion that in short it makes the game easier.

and you should never make a game as skillful as pool any easier

jmo <hr /></blockquote>

As far as the players not wanting jump cues I think it would be interesting to see some kind of poll on if they should be allowed or not. If all pool players were polled and had one vote I dont think they would be banned.

If the game shouldnt be made easier then we should get away from this Simonis cloth, go back to the slow cloth they used to play on. And take the tables back to 5 x 10 instead of their current size, in fact lets ban bar boxes /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Not directing this at you Billy, just trying to here some more comments on the subject. <hr /></blockquote>

the discussion on this subject is kin to why the women can't play with the men.it can go on and on with good, bad, and indifferent points

if you did take a poll with ALL poolplayers concerning the jump cue I'd say you're correct- no it would not be banned because so many don't understand the complexities of this most skillful sport

but it's only my opinion that the short cue will not be used in high competitive events sooner rather than later because it certainly does makes the game easier and less skillful.that doesn't mean there will be no market for or use of the stick if it were banned from tournaments or leagues (APA already for one example).it just says to me that many share my opinion and feel,in the long run, the stick is detrimental to the game

many players may be dissappointed in what I'm saying but sorry 'the stick will be history'

jmo

BeanDiesel
08-19-2004, 03:05 AM
so basically they are just going to ban that short cue right? hmm, what if one day they come out with a 58" jump cue? u know, like a cue with weight distribution like a short jump cue, plus a few inches of "weightless" butt to make it look like a regular cue. would that be legal?

LivinGr8
08-19-2004, 05:35 AM
Not directing this at you Billy, just trying to here some more comments on the subject. <hr /></blockquote>

I have played so many who thought that jumping would help their team/win a game, only to mess up a good thing going. This IMO is very destructive to the focus of the team effort. Also, most of these "jumpers" could not have been swayed from there decision to jump. Seems to me that, for this reason, "the pool gods" (LOL) would ban jumping in league play all togather.
However, I do believe that the art of jumping has its place in the pool world. Very entertaining when it is done effectively and quite competitive when both players are efficient with it.

catscradle
08-19-2004, 05:49 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote stickman:</font><hr> Hey, I like to watch curling! LOL Maybe I'm just easily entertained. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I'd rather watch curling on ESPN than a spelling bee. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif <hr /></blockquote>

Me too, barroom shuffleboard on steroids. I actually think curling is very cool (no pun intended).

Troy
08-19-2004, 07:54 AM
Bring no more than two (2) cues to the table and go for it... /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote BeanDiesel:</font><hr> so basically they are just going to ban that short cue right? hmm, what if one day they come out with a 58" jump cue? u know, like a cue with weight distribution like a short jump cue, plus a few inches of "weightless" butt to make it look like a regular cue. would that be legal? <hr /></blockquote>

Rich R.
08-19-2004, 09:27 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Tom_In_Cincy:</font><hr> IMO, until the pros are willing to work for coporate sponsorship, they are stuck where they are. <hr /></blockquote>

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Tom_In_Cincy:</font><hr>What do the pros do to promote the game?
<hr /></blockquote>
Tom, you make some very good points here.

I don't want to see pool players act like NASCAR drivers, but it wouldn't hurt if they thanked their sponsors during an interview. I don't know if I have ever heard a player give some credit to their sponsor, on TV.
Maybe if they did, more sponsors would come forward. After all, that is what they are paying for. Wearing a shirt, or a cheap stick on patch, or using a cue just isn't enough. The player has to mention the sponsors name once in a while. It also wouldn't hurt if they did a little promotion and mentioned the next big tournament they were going to.

Many of the players only want to take. They take money from their sponsors and they take prize money from the promoters. Some don't even want to sign a cue ball, without taking money from some kid. It would be a smart move if they started giving a little back. It may benefit them in a big way.

SpiderMan
08-25-2004, 09:19 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote tateuts:</font><hr> The USPPA, which is an amateur tournament membership organization, has banned their use officially starting next year. That's probably where the information came from. The jump shot is still legal, just short cues will be banned.

Chris <hr /></blockquote>

Have they decided on a definition of "short"? "Short" cues are already banned by BCA if they're less than 40 inches. How much is USPPA planning to add to the 40? Will 53" cues be legal, even if they only weigh 12 ounces? I wonder how much they've really thought this out.

SpiderMan