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View Full Version : soft layered tips Tiger vs. Stratos vs. ???



brian_
08-19-2004, 01:37 PM
I'm looking to see if anyone has ever used either of those tips in the soft versions and what they thought of them. How'd they hold up? Did they mushroom out bad? etc.

I'm also looking to see if anyone knows of a good layered tip out there close to the softness of a Elk master that will last. Are the soft Talisman Pro tips or Moori Slow anywhere close?

I've been playing with a fairly hard tip the last yr or so, harder then any Le Pro I've shot with, and it just doesn't give me the feel I like, as the elk master did. But the elk masters don't hold shape very well and don't last long enough.

RedHell
08-19-2004, 01:53 PM
The talisman soft plays very well and is pretty soft for a layered tip, but nowhere near a elkmaster. I don't think you can find a layered tip as soft as the elk.

In my mind, soft will always be related to mushrooming. By definition a tip will compress (and mushroom) until it has obtain the hardness required to stabilize, at this point you will probably not consider it soft anymore.

I think you live with a dilema... as long as you will be looking to play with a soft tip, you will have to accept regular maintenance of your tip to reshape it.

Just my 2 cents !

SteveEllis
08-19-2004, 02:49 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote brian_:</font><hr> I'm looking to see if anyone has ever used either of those tips in the soft versions and what they thought of them. How'd they hold up? Did they mushroom out bad? etc.

I'm also looking to see if anyone knows of a good layered tip out there close to the softness of a Elk master that will last. Are the soft Talisman Pro tips or Moori Slow anywhere close?

I've been playing with a fairly hard tip the last yr or so, harder then any Le Pro I've shot with, and it just doesn't give me the feel I like, as the elk master did. But the elk masters don't hold shape very well and don't last long enough. <hr /></blockquote>

I think the Talisman soft plays very nicely, but half of them I've had have delaminated on me. I no longer use them. I've also have a Stratos soft on one of my cues. I like the way it plays, but haven't had it long enough to see how it holds up.

brian_
08-19-2004, 03:09 PM
I don't mind the having to reshape just the elk masters are so thin they don't last very long. I'd like to find something that will last a whole winter before I have to replace it.

Troy
08-19-2004, 03:16 PM
I've been using Talisman Pro Soft for years with zero de-lam problems. The first one lasted about 15 months of every day use. I also have many customers who now use Talisman Pro tips with no de-lam problems.

I don't think there's a tip out there as soft as an Elk Master. Dealing with the mushroom just comes with the territory.

Troy
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote brian_:</font><hr> I don't mind the having to reshape just the elk masters are so thin they don't last very long. I'd like to find something that will last a whole winter before I have to replace it. <hr /></blockquote>

brian_
08-19-2004, 05:34 PM
I was just going by Mueller's scale and seen the elk master was a 60 and the 2 I listed were 65's I think, figured that was close enough. Alittle harder then the elk master probably wouldn't hurt.

I play alot of fast bar tables in the winter and even though I play on 9 footers with 860 for practice I still have a hard time having the soft touch I like to have with some of the faster tables.

With a soft layered tip is there anything I should tell the guy I have put it on to watch for? He has the lathe I don't. He makes pretty decent shafts so he's not a idiot, just don't think he's ever put one on.

Leviathan
08-19-2004, 08:14 PM
'Lo, Red.

The real issue may be the relationship between softness and resiliency. I suspect that both fairly hard and fairly soft materials can be more resilient than tip leather. Maybe a polymer chemist who understands pool will one day produce the perfect synthetic tip. This tip will be available in a wide range of hardnesses, keep its resiliency and thus its shape for many months of play, accept chalk properly, glue well, and cost about two bits a pop.

Surely the American scientific genius that produced the Tater Tot and the Firestone SUV tire can give us a good synthetic tip!

AS

BLACKHEART
08-19-2004, 08:40 PM
/ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gifDefinitly, tell him to run the lathe at a slow speed. Too high of a speed causes too much heat &amp; the top layers will come off. I shape all layered tips starting with 60 grit paper &amp; finishing the last couple of top layers with 320. Then I press the tip &amp; reshape with 320. DON'T BE IN A HURRY. I PREFER ALL OF THE TIGER PRODUCTS TO ALL OTHERS...JER

Troy
08-19-2004, 09:08 PM
Didn't the first Firestone SUV tires result in more than a few deaths and multi-million dollar lawsuits ???

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Leviathan:</font><hr>.....the Firestone SUV tire!.....

AS <hr /></blockquote>

NH_Steve
08-21-2004, 05:45 AM
I've been playing with soft Talsman for the last couple of years. Mushrooming has not been an issue at all! When I have a new one put on I request about 1/3 of the factory thickness be taken off, however, and between that and the laminated construction I have seen about zero mushrooming. Despite being soft they hold their shape very well. Although I've had two delam over that time, I love the tips. I recently had a medium Talsiman put on one shaft and it doesn't get nearly the nice soft grip on the cue ball that the soft does (with very little deflection!). I'm sticking with soft -- but I wish they didn't delam now and then...

I have yet to try any other layered brands, so I do not know how Talisman compares to them. IMO, the only way to get a soft tip that holds its shape is to go with layered.

Incidently, soft tips are great for One Pocket! With all the slow spinning and little touch shots in One Pocket I had been having too many miscues with harder tips -- almost none with the soft! If you tend to hit hard, and around the middle of the cue ball, you'll probably be fine with a harder tip. But for a lot of soft shots out at the edge of the cue, I like the soft...

brian_
08-22-2004, 03:12 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote NH_Steve:</font><hr> If you tend to hit hard, and around the middle of the cue ball, you'll probably be fine with a harder tip. But for a lot of soft shots out at the edge of the cue, I like the soft... <hr /></blockquote>

That's the exact reason I'm looking for a soft tip, on some of the faster bar tables I need to be able to put english on the ball but not have it travel 4ft to do it. Sometimes I may need to put english on the ball to get it to move alittle but need it to not move more then 6in, hard tip seems to make that very difficult.

Fred Agnir
08-22-2004, 07:21 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote brian_:</font><hr>
I'm also looking to see if anyone knows of a good layered tip out there close to the softness of a Elk master that will last. Are the soft Talisman Pro tips or Moori Slow anywhere close?<hr /></blockquote> As of this writing, there are no layered tips that are as soft as an Elk Master. However, the Tiger Soft is the softest of the layered tips. It's not even a close comparison, IMO, to the other "soft" layered tips. The Tiger Soft is made from a different material than most layered tips.

There will be an article in the upcoming InsidePool Magazine (Sept. 2004) which touches on this subject.

Fred

Chris Cass
08-22-2004, 08:44 AM
Hi Brian,

I've read all the replies so far and would like to add to the mix. The Talisman tip has many problems with delaminations of the third layer it seems. Man6y do to the way that the installer or player effects them.

On Tony' website it'll tell you the what not to do's list. I had a guy ask me the other day about his Talisman. He told me he was having major problems with it. After looking at the tip I seen he used black magicmarker on the sides. Not recommended by Talisman. Also he had been roughing it up with some rather tough means.

These tips are very fragile and you need to know how to correctly install them and how to do the maintenance on them. Which is very little.

All the Tiger products are quit good. I don't care much for the Tiger tip as it hits too hard rather than transfer the feeling of solidness. However, the Everest is a softer tip and works great from an all around prespective. Both for the 9ft and the bar box. I shoot mainly bar box and I know what your asking.

All these different tips are trade offs such as cue construction differences. If you like the playability of the tip? Then, forget about the maintenance of it. That you'll have to go with.

Myself, I shot with many tips over the yrs. The longest was the LePro. I think the Everest is much softer than the LePro also. I've shot with the Sumo as well for 2 yrs. The harder tips gave me the feel of more control and a much quicker responce. However, I make way many more balls with the Everest and LePro. It does change my game quite a bit too. Seems with the softer tips I hit much softer and more of a finnesse game where with the Sumo or Talisman H I shoot rather a cut and dry game.

Tough choices but it'll all boil down to one thing. Which is more important to you? Which, will do the job you need to do and which will please you the most? I think you should give the Everest a chance.

Regards,

C.C.~~no help but atleast it's another ear.

drawshot
08-22-2004, 09:54 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote NH_Steve:</font><hr> I recently had a medium Talsiman put on one shaft and it doesn't get nearly the nice soft grip on the cue ball that the soft does (with very little deflection!). I'm sticking with soft -- but I wish they didn't delam now and then...

<hr /></blockquote>

Hey NH Steve,

Is this true... Softer tips will give you less deflection?
Or is it that Soft Talisman will give you less deflection?

66goat
08-23-2004, 06:36 PM
I think it's somewhat comparable to buying a cue. You can find a million different opinions on each type of tip but until you try one out for any length of time you don't really know what you want. Tips aren't that expensive as long as you don't go crazy. Try one out and replace them once or twice a year until you find that perfect fit. Take notes on how they feel and compare them as you move through you selections over the years. I have a decent selection, but if you're only looking for one at a time then your local Cue Doctor will be your best bet. He probalby has a few of his own suggestions to share as well. Good luck man! /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif