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Sid_Vicious
08-22-2004, 06:54 AM
Question came up yesterday concerning movement of obstructing balls with the bridge during execution, "Is is merely an option of the opponent to leave as is, or is there a provision in BCA rules making the secondary movement due to equipment and/or jump intention that makes this a BIH offense?" Seems as I remember it gets a bih fpul call whereas mere bumping other balls normally only gets the option.

Thanks,
Sid

Leviathan
08-22-2004, 07:44 AM
'Morning, Sid. You might want to look at BCA rules 3.21, 3.25, and 3.29. (I don't think that 3.29 applies to the situation you describe, but I throw it in because you ask about the relevancy of intention.)

3.21: FOULS BY TOUCHING BALLS
It is a foul to strike, touch or in any way make contact with the cue ball in play or any object balls in play with anything (the body, clothing, chalk, mechanical bridge, cue shaft, etc.) except the cue tip (while attached to the cue shaft), which may contact the cue ball in the execution of a legal shot. Whenever a referee is presiding over a match, any object ball moved during a standard foul must be returned as closely as possible to its original position as judged by the referee, and the incoming player does not have the option of restoration. (Also see Rule 1.16.1).

3.25: PLAYER RESPONSIBILITY FOULS
The player is responsible for chalk, bridges, files and any other items or equipment he brings to, uses at, or causes to approximate the table. If he drops a piece of chalk, or knocks off a mechanical bridge head, as examples, he is guilty of a foul should such an object make contact with any ball in play (or the cue ball only if no referee is presiding over the match).

3.29: SPECIAL INTENTIONAL FOUL PENALTY
The cue ball in play shall not be intentionally struck with anything other than a cue’s attached tip (such as the ferrule, shaft, etc.). While such contact is automatically a foul under the provisions of Rule 3.19, if the referee deems the contact to be intentional, he shall warn the player once during a match that a second violation during that match will result in the loss of the match by forfeiture. If a second violation does occur, the match must be forfeited.

AS

Chris Cass
08-22-2004, 08:10 AM
Hi Alan,

I believe there's something else too. If it's more than one ball there's also complications. Like if Sid jumped and accidently collided with 2 or more balls.

Regards,

C.C.

Sid_Vicious
08-22-2004, 08:29 AM
I understand, but have to clarify my question again with another question.

Is the obstructing ball in a jump shot a ball in play? If so, what's the penalty upon moving it with the JC after the follow thru?

I call myself on these fouls, so maybe I am hurting myself. I've aslo taken a foul on myself when I fail to maintain the finesse of bridging over a ball by hitting the obstructing ball AFTER the eleveted, legal "pop" on the CB. I don't mean to be sporty at ya'...tell me, what is your personal call under these two particular situations? The script from the BCA manual is about as clear as mud at times to me, sorry.

Maybe it's more a question of what constitutes a ball in play..sid

woody_968
08-22-2004, 09:17 AM
Keep in mind all the different rule sets being played these days. For nine ball most are playing Texas Express, or some from there of /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

That may be what you are getting at,here is a rule on jump shots and object balls from Texas Express (http://www.texasexpress.com/)

6.23: Masse or Jump Shot Interference

If a player executes a jump or masse shot to avoid hitting any numbered ball that obstructs the path to the lowest numbered ball, and as a result moves any numbered ball due to the follow-through of the shot, a foul occurs. The penalty is cue ball-in-hand for the opponent.

Rod
08-22-2004, 10:10 AM
BCA has a similar rule although not very well written. I've used ir many times. Were these guys on drugs when they wrote the book?

5.12 JUMP AND MASSÉ SHOT FOUL
If a match is not refereed, it will be considered a cue ball foul if during an attempt to jump, curve or massé the cue ball over or around an impeding numbered ball, the impeding ball moves (regardless of whether it was moved by a hand, cue stick follow-through or bridge).

Leviathan
08-22-2004, 10:15 AM
Ah--that's the one!

woody_968
08-23-2004, 01:09 PM
Thats the one I was looking for, thanks Rod.

Chopstick
08-23-2004, 01:17 PM
There is another one that sometimes occurs that players aren't generally looking for. During a jump shot the cue ball will clip the ferrule on the way up. You can't really see it but you can hear it.

woody_968
08-23-2004, 03:06 PM
Your right about the ferrule touching the cueball on some jump shots. I dont think it is looked for all that often as it can be so hard to prove.

Sid_Vicious
08-23-2004, 04:28 PM
Many masse shots "ride" the ferrule and make an obvious sound,,,who is ever gonna weed out the arguments with these kinds of interactive types of stroke fouls, that is unless the shooter themselves has the morals to self-call the foul? There is a slo-mo tape exhibiting ferrule fouls during many of the elaborate strokes, and yet it is simpler to keep the rule book in the case...too damned subjective depending on what side of the fence you are standing on...sid~~~calls many fouls on himself, but not these mentioned here since the rules are not in place