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View Full Version : "Big Table" vs "Barbox" phenomenon



haywood
08-22-2004, 11:18 PM
For the last few weeks, I have been predominantly playing on 9-footers. Tonight, I went out and played on a 7-foot bar table. I couldn't believe that my game had improved so much. If I had to guess, I would say my game has improved by at least 2 balls on the "bar box". I was wondering though, is this just an illusion or is this an actual improvement in my game? Any thoughts?

Chris Cass
08-22-2004, 11:43 PM
Hi Haywood,

I'd have to agree it has gone up. First of all, I find that if I can give a guy the 7 out, on the 9ft I can give him the 6 out on the bar table. That's one ball difference. I'd say if you went up 2 balls than that says it all. Your going up. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Regards,

C.C.~~believes the difference in the change intables is equal to only 1 ball.

nhp
08-23-2004, 04:54 AM
People say it is much easier to string racks together on a barbox. For example, I know this one guy (who shall remain nameles) who's record for 9-ball is breaking and running 10 consecutive racks on a 9 foot table, but on barboxes, he said he has run over 15's too many times to count.

Chris Cass
08-23-2004, 07:11 AM
WOW, now that's something.

C.C.~~never ran more than 6 total on the bar box and still, it's all about the snap.

Cueless Joey
08-23-2004, 08:23 AM
I've seen drunks, who have no idea where they are, run a rack of 8-ball on a tinker box. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
A friend of mine looks decent on the barbox. His crooked stroke gets exposed on the big table.

Chris Cass
08-23-2004, 08:46 AM
Hi Joey,

I know exactly what your talking about. Especially on the Diamond bar boxes. It's like brutal. Then again, everyone runs out on me. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Now since I've been playing some on the 9ft I see it wasn't the cue after all. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif Although, it could be the balance of the butt plug?

Regards,

C.C.~~what is that way down there? oh, it's a ball. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Eric.
08-23-2004, 09:01 AM
Hi haywood,

My opinion, I would guess that your game did improve a little. I think there are big differences between barboxes and 9 fters. It's not just the difference of 2 feet. The bigger table (depending of pocket size) will usually expose a "flawed" stroke or "lazy" aiming. For example, on a Valley barbox, you can cut a ball that is a few inches off the rail, into the corner pocket and the OB can touch the side rail as much as 1 diamond before the pocket. If you shot that on a moderately tough 9 fter, you would hang the OB in the jaws of the pocket. The other obvious point is that with longer distances, you haqve to be more accurate. One other point is taht if you play 9 ball on a big table, you have to play better angles and position routes. If you're careless, you could wind up with a longer, more difficult shot than necessary. On a barbox, I don't usually worry about being left "long", I just play for a decent angle.


Eric

KGeeED
08-23-2004, 09:47 AM
I do think your game has improved because of the bigger table. I have a 9 foot table at home and it gets all of my practice time. I find that after playing on the 9 it takes a few games to adjust to the bb because I cannot let my stroke out. The other factors are you play more position on the bb because the balls are not spread out as much and you have also have to be able to break the balls out more and still be able to get the next shot. The way that I try to over come this is to practice with all of the balls on 1/2 of the table before I go out to play on a bb. I know that I am a killer on long shots and thin cuts because of the 9 footer. I especially like it when I get sharking about a lot of green.

ras314
08-23-2004, 11:44 AM
Sounds like most posters are playing on better quality bar boxes than I usually find. Slow cloth and rails combined with unlevel beds get me aggravated real quick. Have to wack everything so hard it negates the easier pockets.

Then when I get back to a good 9 ft it takes a while to realize I've got to aim and stroke better.

Maybe just getting too old and grouchy to switch tables anymore. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Greg/Diamond
08-23-2004, 07:03 PM
Chris,

I'd sure like you're opinion as whether you would prefer the pockets on the Diamond Bar box be tighter. My first coin ops were made with pro specs and many players in my area as well as myself liked the tighter conditions.. These specs were loosened because of input from Terry Bell of the APA, for he feared and probably rightly so, that tighter conditions would alter his handicap system. I'm hoping that some day there will be league specs established, of course along with pro specs!!! Greg/ Diamond

easyout
08-24-2004, 03:46 PM
Greg

are they using diamond tables at the apa in vegas this
week for the nationals?

Greg/Diamond
08-24-2004, 08:16 PM
easyout

No I'm very sad to say I lost my contrac with the APA. It seems they got a better monetary offer from a
valley or brunswick as a sponser not just a table provider. When Mark bought the BCA league this gave them a way out of the contrac I had with them. I couldn't convince them that I am for all leagues and I wouldn't try and switch any APA players to BCA. I want all leagues playing on Diamond tables and aligning myself with any one league would be counter productive with my goals......Greg/Diamond

Chris Cass
08-24-2004, 11:07 PM
Hi Greg,

It's no secret to many I've talked with, that I prefer the Diamond bar tables over the Valley'. My boss even knows that and he's a huge fan of the Valley tables. I welcome the change from the Valley and look at the Diamond, as the new age of pool.

I try explaining the differences in the pocket degree on the angles and the mouth opening being only useful to the straight in shot but you can't talk to some of the rec players and get the point across clearly. /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

I do prefer the pocket be shimmed tighter and see where Terry is coming from too. In his and other league operators and pool hall owners in general feel. That the rec player has to make balls or they get too frustrated and won't keep coming back. That's why most will not shim up the 9 fters. This too is no secret.

We have 6 Diamond bar tables in the ph where I work and a ton of Valley tables. The Diamond tables are forever running me ragged with getting the cb' out from the collector box. The sensors needing batterires and adjusting the sensors along with balls getting hung up in the table too. It's around the sensor area too.

I spend at minimum of 2 times a 5 hr shift. Drives me crazy. I've also had to scoop many pieces of chalk in the ball return area. Seems to be the place that the chalk comes out when these rec players drop the chalk down the pockets by accident.

These were new smart tables and we've had them maybe 1 yr. This problem has been on going for a long time. My boss was ready to throw in the towel as he's all about the ACS and that's mainly Valley as you know.

However, I know and many know how you feel about customer satisfaction. I personally know you. Your all about the player and of course, your trying to get your table out there. Nothing wrong with that.

I know Diamond has offered to come out and replace all the tracks with the new and improved to try to solve this problem. As these weren't bought but are on leased? Not sure. The main thing is whoever it is are willing to come out and repair or replace the entire lot. That is what I'm talking about. Standing up with what you believe in and standing behind the product.

These tables are also extremely durable too. They look great all the time. I would like to see the specs changed on the pocket openings. I like the way the table brings the home to the room instead of the commercial. Playability is what I like the most. Some however will always want to never change. Like McDonalds changing their Chicken. Change is good. lol

Regards,

C.C.~~rec players like to pick up the Valley but don't see many try picking up a Diamond. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

shoutout33
08-25-2004, 08:35 AM
I have no idea why folks get all philosophical about this. I mean c'mon, if you're playing on 9 footers for a good minute and go to a 7 footer, it's a completely different world! Angles aren't as long; less table to cover; yes, you do have to deal with more clusters and less room to work with but for the most part, at least to me anyway, it's way easier! Now, if you're going from a 7 footer to 9, then you have some issues. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Why wouldn't you think you'd get better? Personally, I hate 7 footers. I've played on 8 and 9 footers so much here in the DC area, that it's like I expect to play on nothing but a 9 footer. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif I know that it's not possible, but I wish they would have 9 footers at nationals, but I know it wouldn't be fair for everyone. I think the least that they could do is meet everyone half way and put in 8 footers or something. /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif Now, you really want a challenge? Find someone who has a 10ft. pocket billiards table and try pocketing balls on that! Good luck! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

SpiderMan
08-25-2004, 11:01 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chris Cass:</font><hr>
/ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif Although, it could be the balance of the butt plug?
Regards,C.C.~~what is that way down there? oh, it's a ball. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif <hr /></blockquote>

Sounds uncomfortable!

SpiderMan

Chris Cass
08-25-2004, 11:11 AM
Hey Marty,

I sure do miss you buddy.

C.C.

Chris Cass
08-25-2004, 11:18 AM
Good point Shoutout,

I've been wishing we'd all play on one size table, the same cloth, the same balls the same chalk, the same rules, the same everything, all my life. I bet you do the same thing all your life too. lol It just ain't happening.

I do however think Haywood did go up a ball though. That's from the gambling end of it. Besides, you always want to be positive when it comes to others game. In turn it will bring your game up too. When out side the pool room doors, everything should be cool. Now once you walk through them doors? Then, bring out the switch and click that puppy on.

Regards,

C.C.~~the Miami connection... /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

woody_968
08-25-2004, 11:18 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chris Cass:</font><hr>
/ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif Although, it could be the balance of the butt plug?
Regards,C.C.~~what is that way down there? oh, it's a ball. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif <hr /></blockquote>

Sounds uncomfortable!

SpiderMan <hr /></blockquote>

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chris Cass:</font><hr> Hey Marty,

I sure do miss you buddy.

C.C. <hr /></blockquote>

Um, this is starting to sound a little strange. Something you guys arent telling us? /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Chris Cass
08-25-2004, 11:35 AM
Nope,

You know I wouldn't cheat on you Woody. lol

C.C.~~ /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

ras314
08-25-2004, 11:42 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chris Cass:</font><hr>
You know I wouldn't cheat on you Woody. lol
C.C.~~ /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif <hr /></blockquote>
Uh.... Chris, about that room...... /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

woody_968
08-25-2004, 11:44 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chris Cass:</font><hr> Nope,

You know I wouldn't cheat on you Woody. lol

C.C.~~ /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif <hr /></blockquote>

ROFLMAO

Chris Cass
08-25-2004, 12:02 PM
HAHAHAHA No need to sweat buddy. I'm not into that kind of thing but I won't hold it against anyone to live their life the way they wish.

My buddy Spiderman isn't either but he's got to be one of the best people I've ever met. He's not only extremely intelligent but does excellent work on cues. I happen to love the entire Texas bunch. They party hard and are true as true can be. Plus they get to ride trucks with guns in the back windows. HAHAHAHAHA

Regards,

C.C.

ras314
08-25-2004, 12:31 PM
Well, long's as ol'FL ain't here to start all kinds of bs. Hahahaha. Might have to do an Eric. HAHAHAHAHAH!

That reminds me, got to clean all the guns out of my truck before I hit the road Fri. Bummer.

Greg/Diamond
08-26-2004, 07:09 PM
Chris,

I'm not going to be on the net for a while. Busy getting ready for the US Open and other tournaments. Please give me a call and let me know more about the smart tables you're talking about...location etc. I know there were problems with old sensors but they should have been replaced by now. At least thats what I'm being told at the plant. I'm not active in the day to day operations. Need input from players. thanks,,,,Greg/Diamond ...........update.........After my post here I got on the phone and made some calls. Chris I'm sorry, but I couldn't place you're name with a face. getting old I guess''' I now think I know of your situation and am sorry you're the one who has to work with tables that definitely will be getting an update one way or the other. We are working very hard to help you're employer with financing and Chad reported to me he thinks he has it under control. Either way those old tables needing new sensors will be fixed.....I'm happy to know it's not something new just something that is taking longer than it should have. Banks and lending institutions don't value pool tables as highly as I do ha!....Greg/Diamond

Chris Cass
08-26-2004, 11:14 PM
Hi Greg,

Not surprised you don't remember my face. We only met briefly and it was more in passing. I have had some small dealings with you. I bought a T shirt. LOL I love your logo.

Greg, I know what your goals for your company are and I know how you feel about the sport and it's players. I also know it was discussed and that Chad indeed, had been very supportive and was more than willing to bend over backwards even to go as far as changing the rail tracks
(new update). These tables look new and they definitely are the most durable tables I've ever seen. I think their beautiful myself.

I didn't know it was Chad and I don't know about the finacial end because it's not my business. I do know that there's problems and I know that you stand behind them and the update of your product. That's all I need to know. I will save my dime because it's not needed and I will wav hello at the Open. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Regards,

C.C.~~likes to just walk around the room and talk to the players. lol