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bluewolf
08-26-2004, 09:56 AM
Guess I opened up a can of worms on az by asking how long people had stayed in the zone, and now they want to know what deadstroke is.

I have been in the zone before but never in what I have heard is 'deadstroke'. I figure with the players I know here, that some of you could articulate the difference.

So I guess I am wondering about that. I have heard people talk about the zone, the signs that a person is there, what it feels like and so forth but never in any detail, what things are like in deadstroke or what the differences are.

All I could really get about that is from a couple of players who I think experienced deadstroke once or so and had great difficulty articulating the difference. It does sound better than the zone to me though so really wonder about it.

Any takers?

Laura

rah
08-26-2004, 10:09 AM
I like deadstroke better than the zone because you can run your mouth a hundred miles a minute, stand on you head, step up to the table like in pin the tail on the donkey after being spun around a couple of times and you still can't miss. When you step up to the ball, this is perfect, your bridge hand falls exactly where it is supposed to. There are no adjustments that have to be made. The cue stick feels like part of the arm. Everything is working in perfect sync.

I don't think this necessarily happens when going into the zone, although I am not going to rule out the possiblility that it could.

Getting into deadstroke, IMO, comes from playing many hours in a row. Maybe biorhythms has something to do with it.

And one other thing. The zone is hard to stay in all day long, getting in and getting out and resting and getting back in. When you are in deadstroke, it can last for days or even longer.

The one danger about being in deadstroke is that you may become overconfident and try to do some wild ass stuff and sometimes not think.

I still prefer deadstroke anyday.

Chris Cass
08-26-2004, 10:15 AM
Hi Laura,

I don't see much difference except one, your more knowing what's happening. The other, is beyond explination till it's over. LOL

C.C.

Chris Cass
08-26-2004, 10:17 AM
So, what is this place? Like time out, for you? Kind of like playing tag, a safe zone where noone can tag you, it ? HAHAHAHAHAHA

J/K,

C.C.

Stretch
08-26-2004, 10:20 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bluewolf:</font><hr> Guess I opened up a can of worms on az by asking how long people had stayed in the zone, and now they want to know what deadstroke is.

I have been in the zone before but never in what I have heard is 'deadstroke'. I figure with the players I know here, that some of you could articulate the difference.

So I guess I am wondering about that. I have heard people talk about the zone, the signs that a person is there, what it feels like and so forth but never in any detail, what things are like in deadstroke or what the differences are.

All I could really get about that is from a couple of players who I think experienced deadstroke once or so and had great difficulty articulating the difference. It does sound better than the zone to me though so really wonder about it.

Any takers?

Laura <hr /></blockquote>

I can articliate sum times. But for the sanity of the masses i'll be brief.

To me, being in the zone is simply a reference to your frame of mind dureing your peak performance. It speeks to me about being in another place where there is absolutely no distractions. And that's a good thing. That's where you have to be to compete and get your best game out. Dead Stroke is one step further. Dead stroke is where your thoughts are instantly turned to perfect action. Effortless, easy, and smooth. St

Eric.
08-26-2004, 10:22 AM
I found this on AZ Billiards, hope it helps:

"Yesterday, 12:35 PM
God
Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 77
vCash: 500

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny "V"
I was under the impression that Deadstroke is The Zone.

There's the Zone, there's Deadstroke, and then there is The Dead Zone. That's when you can tell someone's future by shaking thier hand.
__________________
Be like a child.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by God : Yesterday at 12:53 PM. "


Eric &gt;the helpful one

RedHell
08-26-2004, 10:30 AM
So basicaly what you're saying is:

The zone : Perfect state of mind

Deadstroke: The zone + the body joining in

Is that is ?

bill190
08-26-2004, 10:48 AM
When I am in deadstroke, other players say I am *not* aiming and wonder how I am making so many shots. I just go up to the table and quickly whack the ball without any warm-up strokes. The pockets seem like they are two feet wide and I can't miss them.

When this happens, I am just having fun playing pool and being careless with my shots - not thinking about the leave, no worries, all my business matters are taken care of, a good song is playing, playing someone who I like and is fun to play with, etc. I am on autopilot and nothing matters.

Unfortunately I can't play this way any more (for fun). People will not play with me anymore if I win every game. So I have to limit my deadstroke playing to the first three or four balls, then need to start thinking about my shots again. After I run a few balls, then I miss my shot and try to give my opponent a good leave so he can get a few of his balls in and catch up. When I'm thinking about my shots, it ruins the deadstroke.

For league tournaments I need to think about my cue ball leave, safeties, etc. So never in deadstroke.

For money tournaments, I have been practicing specific things each time lately, so I'm thinking about my shooting. So no deadstroke. But when it is getting to be quite late and I want to go home and could care less if I win or not, (Actually would prefer to lose so I could go home), then here comes deadstroke and I can't miss. And the funny thing is I just whack the ball without aiming and intend to miss. But my arm is on autopilot and just seems to naturally line up the shot. So if I want to miss the shot, I need to aim and think about it! This is kind of weird.

I saw a thread about conscious/subconscious shooting. Maybe that is what I am doing?

Voodoo Daddy
08-26-2004, 11:28 AM
The Zone...hmmmmmm, thats when the cueball is where it should at all times. Deadstroke...well, aint that when nothing goes wrong unless you make it wrong?
DEAD PUNCH = all things combined. You can tell when your in DEAD PUNCH when your opponent unscrews his break cue in the middle of the set, HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

Voodoo~~~not so helpful but entertaining

Deeman2
08-26-2004, 11:36 AM
I always thought they were one and the same, but as I have spent so little time in either, I'll yield to the others here. I once thought I was in The Erogenis Zone but my wife said I missed it by a half diamond. /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Deeman

Popcorn
08-26-2004, 12:05 PM
I think sometimes people use the term "Dead Stroke" incorrectly. They apply it to unexpectedly having a good night, "I was in dead stroke". I don't think that is the case. I feel dead stroke is when you are at the top of your game and in control. It does not come surprisingly, it is worked for. Players that play 4 and 5 hours a day know what I mean. You have a game you can totally depend on. When you are matching up you have to have a very good idea how you expect to play and what it will take to beat you. Sometimes someone may ask, "How can you play a stranger you never saw play, aren't you afraid"?. No, not at all, I know how I will play, it's not wishful thinking and know what kind of player it takes to beat me. Dead stroke is just that, your game is right there at your command. The zone is really nothing, just playing over your head a little and surprising yourself. It is not even a goal since it is completely undependable. You know when you are in deal stroke even before you get to the table. You know it in the car on the way to the pool room. That's my interruption anyway.

Rod
08-26-2004, 01:21 PM
I was waiting for someone to do all the typing for me. LOL You called it Popcorn. The Zone is relatively new terminology, probably from reading to many books. LOL
If you think your in the zone as defined by most, your not, because your thinking about it.

You don't play all those hours hoping you'll hit some magical zone that is a fleeting period of time. You do put in that time however to play the way you expect to play every time you go to the table. You have complete confidence in your game obtained by being dedicated to the perfection of the sport.

For those that want to zone, go right ahead. You'll always be looking for those magical moments. While the player in dead punch expects it. Try and make a living on the road hoping you'll play well or enter that magical zone.

I'm not sure who coined that phrase (the zone) but your better off not even thinking about it. Put in your time, pay your dues and you'll be the best you can be. It's not fantasy land. People fantasize to much, stay in the present and know your ability. JMO of course.

Rod

Mr Ingrate
08-26-2004, 01:56 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman2:</font><hr>I once thought I was in The Erogenis Zone but my wife said I missed it by a half diamond. /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Deeman <hr /></blockquote>
My wife thinks I'm always in the erroneous zone.

Stretch
08-26-2004, 04:04 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote RedHell:</font><hr> So basicaly what you're saying is:

The zone : Perfect state of mind

Deadstroke: The zone + the body joining in

Is that is ? <hr /></blockquote>

That's it. Perfect harmony between mind and body. St

nineball33
08-26-2004, 10:13 PM
I've never been in the zone or in dead stroke my question is how do you make your mind fully concentrate to get in the zone or dead stroke is their a drill that will teach you full concentration? /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Chris Cass
08-26-2004, 10:25 PM
HAHAHAH

Hi Popcorn,

Looks like we answered the same answer. lol Only I did it 2 sentences. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Regards,

C.C.~~I have a few gears. I switch as needed. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif although sometimes I stay in park too long. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Popcorn
08-27-2004, 08:13 AM
I am curious what it is you are looking for? Pool is a nuts and bolts game, you learn the game and stay practiced and you will play your speed what ever that is. Praying for some mystical intervention to happen and make you a better player then you are in general is silly. You should be ably to expect to play your speed with in a range most every time you go to the table. When players talk about a zone I don't think it applies to pool, or golf , or any sports like that. I can see it in something like weightlifting or sprinting where the person tries to get themselves into a frame of mind to produce a possible peak performance for that one instant, but not in pool. In fact, if someone was to try to depend on that kind of thing, worrying about every distractions or meditating trying to get into some kind of magical frame of mind they would be vulnerable to anything and everything around them that does not gel with what they were trying to do. I can respect your wishing there was some way to play better, but the truth is to just practice and build confidence in your game and you'll be able to play because you will have something real to base your confidence on.

Chopstick
08-27-2004, 11:22 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Eric.:</font><hr>
There's the Zone, there's Deadstroke, and then there is The Dead Zone. That's when you can tell someone's future by shaking thier hand.
<hr /></blockquote>

Don't forget the bozone. That's where most of my shots come from. /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Eric.
08-27-2004, 12:07 PM
Chopstick! Long time, no hear(post).

I'll add that to the list.

I got my pearl of wisdom from a post on AZ Billiards.


Eric

bsmutz
09-01-2004, 03:55 PM
Nineball33,
I guess I've never been completely confident in my game, but to try to help you be a better player or figure out a way to concentrate more, I have found a way to do that (at least for me). Normally, I play at home, bar, or pool hall. Usually I am by myself or playing someone in the family that isn't nearly as dedicated as I am. Under these circumstances, I normally am only able to concentrate for short periods of time and usually it only happens when I am reminded by missed shots that I must settle down and concentrate. The usual way that things go is that I make most of my shots, am frustrated by the occasional easy shot missed, but still beat whoever I'm playing or feel that I made progress in my practice (shot drills well or beat my opponent). Just putting in the hours feels like I made progress sometimes. Now for the good part. Whenever I play snooker (it helps to play against someone who is equal to or slightly better than you) my concentration level goes up by leaps and bounds. It is so difficult to make balls on a snooker table compared to a regular pool table that you have to concentrate fully on almost every shot to make a ball. The table is bigger, the pockets are incredibly small, and the balls are smaller. Plus there are more balls on the table. If you want to learn concentration, staying down on the shot, and really challenge yourself at the same time, I recommend playing snooker once in awhile. It may be that pocket reducers offer a similar challenge but I have never tried them. An added side benefit for me is that I play much better pool after playing snooker for a few hours. It's kind of like going from a large pool table to a smaller one only better because the pockets are now huge in comparison as well as the longest shot being a lot shorter (not to mention fewer balls to get around). The table I've been playing snooker on lately has cloth that is almost like paper it is so thin. The balls roll forever which makes playing shape ever so difficult. Give it a try, I'll think you'll be pleased with the results.

wantsumrice
09-01-2004, 11:06 PM
[ QUOTE ]
An added side benefit for me is that I play much better pool after playing snooker for a few hours. <hr /></blockquote>

I tried snooker for the first time tonight, and I have to say, it's not my cup of tea. I admire those who are excellent at the game, 1) because it takes SO much concentration on each shot, but more importantly 2) because it takes SO much patience.

I found myself shooting 8/9 ball much worse after playing snooker. It's strange how pool can play mind games with someone /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

~ivan *never playing snooker again*

nhp
09-02-2004, 05:53 AM
Here is my take on it:

About two years ago, I was playing the best pool of my life. I was in dead stroke, this lasted for about 1 whole year. I met a girl, stopped playing as often, and my game went to crap. Every once in a while, I would get in the "zone", as to where I was completely focused, and was shooting good, but it never lasted long. Maybe one or two sets, maybe a whole tournament or gambling session. When I was in deadstroke, it would never go away. All I had to do was warm up for about 10 minutes, and I was shooting great. I could talk to people, take a break, come back, and I would still be in dead stroke. For me, dead stroke is a feeling in my stroking arm, like in my triceps, where they are controlling the cue perfectly, I can feel and see my shaft going perfectly straight, and staying perfectly level. My stance felt perfect and rock solid, very comfortable, I could play for hours and hours and not get tired. I have a light cue, but when I was in dead stroke, my cue felt slightly heavier, but very comfortable, and I could really juice up the ball with little or no effort. The sound of a good draw shot is a high pitched *clack* when my tip hits the cueball, and my hit is very solid. I haven't been in deadstroke for about 2 years. Every day when I practice I wish and wish to get that feeling back, but it hasn't come yet. Some times I wonder if it will ever come back....