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Chopstick
08-27-2004, 11:12 AM
Has anybody used or seen one of these things?

www.breakrak.com (http://www.breakrak.com)

It looks pretty interesting. I might buy one. Hey Spidey, there's a video on this sight of a guy doing the old Funland break with it.

Paul_Mon
08-27-2004, 11:27 AM
Here's my review of the Break Rak from early 2003

I was recently given a Break Rak by its inventor Charlie Bond. A few months back Charlie and I got into a spirited discussion over the merits of the Break Rak. Site unseen I told him my thoughts about the Break Rak. At the time I doubted that the Break Rak would be a useful tool in developing a consistent break. I also felt that the cost of a Break Rak was extremely high and that for my money I would rather pay someone to rack real balls for me. I told Charlie that I would never consider buying one without first trying it out. He graciously agreed to send me one free of charge to experiment with.

First of all you need to know that the Break Rak is a training aid that develops cue ball control when using a hard break. It will not give you any feedback as to how the balls spread. It sole purpose is to provide feedback on where the cue ball ends up after breaking a rack of 9 balls. To that end the Break Rak is a complete success, IMO. I can say with complete honesty that I have better cue ball control after using the Break Rak for one week. I used it about ½ hour the first time I set it up and again for about 20 minutes later that day. Each day since I’ve used it about 15 minutes per day.

The next day I brought it to the pool hall and it met with mixed reviews. The counter man and another player believed that it would benefit their breaking ability. Neither one of them or I think that anyone would rent it for use at the pool hall. Most pool players believe that they “know it all” and any invention of this kind is a gimmick. In my initial conversation with Charlie I called this product a gimmick too. My thinking now is that the Break Rak is indeed a gimmick, but not in a negative way.

In today’s global marketplace we see new gimmicks all the time. Some of us buy them and love them others sit back and settle for the status quo. I own one of pools most expensive gimmicks the Predator 314 shaft. Golf is full of swing aids and training devices. Pool is long over due for a truly effective break training device and the Break Rak meets that need. It is now up to the marketplace to decide if the Break Rak is worth the price. I’ll not quote the retail price here as it may have changed since it was first introduced. Charlie will be in Valley Forge this March demonstrating and selling Break Rak’s.

In closing I want to acknowledge Charlie as a gentleman who proudly stood behind his product and its merits. I admire his ingenuity for a well-conceived product and wish him success with his business

Sid_Vicious
08-27-2004, 11:31 AM
You have mail(PM) sid

SPetty
08-27-2004, 12:18 PM
I have one. I think it does what it's intended to do if you desire to gain more control of your break shot.

Without going to the web site and reading the claims, I think it's intended to allow you to perfect your break stroke by allowing you the opportunity break over and over without having to stop and rerack the balls every time. I think it reacts enough like a real rack to be able to make necessary adjustments for cue ball control.

That is, if it is your desire to smack the rack and leave the cue ball in the center of the table (as is conventional wisdom), this tool will help you learn to accomplish that. If you desire the type of break where the cue ball hits the rack, then goes off to the side to come back to the center of the table, this tool will help you learn to accomplish that.

I think with some practice time with the BreakRak, your stroke and your speed control and your cue ball control will improve on your break shots.

What the BreakRak doesn't do is tell you if you've made the kind of hit that pockets a ball on the break. But I think that once you've mastered your break shot with the BreakRak, then while playing or while practicing, you can move the cue ball back and forth along the line until you're hitting the break shot that you know how to hit, and pocketing a ball or two on the break.

poolplayer1988
08-27-2004, 03:17 PM
I have one of the BreakRAKs and it has helped my break tremendously. I couldn't control the cue ball when I broke, but I could hit'em pretty hard. I got freaking tired of chasing balls all over the table when I was trying to practice my break, so I started looking on the net for something to help me out. Now, I can plow the balls and squat the ball damn near anywhere I want. Like any good training aid, this product does help if you use it to practice with and concentrate on improving. I'd recommend it to anyone.

Doug Talbot

ELnino
08-27-2004, 09:34 PM
I have one and I think besides Accu-Stats it's the best training tool on the market. I don't care how well you play, if your break isn't working you're not going to beat good players. You have to control the table and the break is the most important shot to do just that.

DennyS
08-28-2004, 05:55 AM
I'm happy to say that the Break-Rak is one of the most positive Training Aides we use at the Ohio Pool School. I use the Break-Rak in conjunction with video and my radar gun. Not only do I want my students to gain more cue ball control but also to increase their consistency in cue speed , Timing and accuracy .The sum of all parts equal a great Break.Thank you Charlie for a great teaching aide!

ceebee
08-30-2004, 08:10 AM
Mr. Chopstick, the BreakRAK is a success. The idea was originally just a practice tool for me, because a good Break Shot had eluded me for so long (25 years). After perfecting the Break Shot with my new training aid, about a month later I went into the Pool Hall & things were different. Everybody wanted to know what I had done to gain such a great Break Shot... well their friends had to have a BreakRAK & their friends wanted a BreakRAK too. I was in business.

My BreakRAKS are in every state of the USA, it's now in 15 other countries too. My BreakRAK is used in every major Pool School and by almost 3 dozen BCA Instructors. My sales to Pool Rooms are starting to escalate too, it's a great tool for use as a rental.

A great Break Shot is the key to great playing, you can start controlling your matches with a good Break Shot.

rah
08-30-2004, 09:22 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chopstick:</font><hr> Has anybody used or seen one of these things?

www.breakrak.com (http://www.breakrak.com)

It looks pretty interesting. I might buy one. Hey Spidey, there's a video on this sight of a guy doing the old Funland break with it. <hr /></blockquote>

Before you put out all of that money, here is what I do: I have one of those cueballs with the circle/dot/black equator line. I hit the ball down to the other end of the table, trying to go five rails with control. You will be surprised to see that your chalk mark can hit the dot on the head but your cue ball does not come back straight as it should. This means that you are stroking crooked but still hitting the dot. This puts unwanted spin on the ball.

How can you tell this using the break gimmick? I am just curious as I have contemplated for some time in buying this break rack gimmick, but as so far I have concluded that my cheaper method is better in some respects.

woody_968
08-30-2004, 10:53 AM
rah,

The drill you are talking about is a great one, and has really helped my break. But the one thing the drill doesnt tell you is if you hit the head ball square, and that is a BIG key to a consistent break.

Some may believe in the Breakrack and some may not, but IMO it is much more than a "gimmick".

Disclaimer - I do not currently own a breakrack but it is on my "to buy" list.

RUNaRAK
08-31-2004, 12:04 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote rah:</font><hr>
Before you put out all of that money, here is what I do: I have one of those cueballs with the circle/dot/black equator line. I hit the ball down to the other end of the table, trying to go five rails with control. You will be surprised to see that your chalk mark can hit the dot on the head but your cue ball does not come back straight as it should. This means that you are stroking crooked but still hitting the dot. This puts unwanted spin on the ball.

How can you tell this using the break gimmick? I am just curious as I have contemplated for some time in buying this break rack gimmick, but as so far I have concluded that my cheaper method is better in some respects. <hr /></blockquote>

Rah?? The drill that you are speaking of has very very few similarities to the Breakrak.. I always thought that I was an above average breaker and have had success for the most part. After purchasing and trying the breakrak, I realized that I was not hitting the head ball squarely very often. Initially, I used the breakrak for about 30 minutes and have needed less time in practicing to maintain the break stroke that I wanted.
I have purchased several gimmicks and if that is what you wish to call them, so be it!. This gimmick does work famously for its intention. Control whitey!
Well worth the investment IMHO and would recommend it to anyone wanting to improve their break. Best of luck to the initial poster.
Great product Charley! Thanks... /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Joe...

Rod
08-31-2004, 12:27 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I realized that I was not hitting the head ball squarely very often. <hr /></blockquote>

If people only knew how often and poor they make contact.

woody_968
08-31-2004, 02:00 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr>
If people only knew how often and poor they make contact. <hr /></blockquote>

When Scott got me to work on making the cueball squat without hitting a rail my break really improved. Its amazing how much a little off center hit on the one takes away from the break.

GeorgeV
08-31-2004, 02:03 PM
I haven't used a BreakRak. Just watched the online video to see how it works. Interesting device. Seems like you'd get good feedback when you hit the cue and the head ball properly, but what happens if you don't hit it square or hit it with too much top or side spin? If you don't hit it square, it's gonna go off in some whacky direction. The video doesn't show what happens then. Seems like if put an excessive amount of top or side spin on the cue ball, it could go flying when it hits the cables or the frame.

Anybody know?

RUNaRAK
08-31-2004, 02:18 PM
George,

If you miss the ball completely and hit the cable, you need more work on your stroke before considering the Breakrak. I cannot say that I ever totally missed the ball and hit the cable but if I did, I am sure that I would be repairing a hole in my wall. Hitting the ball off center will not normally send it flying off the table.

It is a good device that gives great feedback.

It does not matter how great something is, you will always have those who are going to talk it down. Regarless as to whether they have tried it or not. I have it and find it to be a valuable TOOL!

SPetty
08-31-2004, 02:52 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote GeorgeV:</font><hr> If you don't hit it square, it's gonna go off in some whacky direction. <hr /></blockquote>Yep, that could happen. If you hit the cue ball with speed and miss the head ball that bad, yeah, the cue ball could leave the table. I did it on purpose the first time I tried the device to see what it would do. /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif Sure enough, the cue ball hit the "bungee cord" and left the table! /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

BUT, if your break is that bad and if you're serious about improving your break and if you buy a BreakRak to help you, you'll follow the suggestion of using it properly. The suggestion is to start out close to the rack, like from mid-table, and stroke well until you can do it properly from there. Then move the cue ball backwards a bit and do it again until you can do it properly from there. Then move the cue ball backwards a bit and do it again until you can do it properly from there. Like a progressive drill.

Sid_Vicious
08-31-2004, 02:58 PM
"The suggestion is to start out close to the rack, like from mid-table, and stroke well until you can do it properly from there. Then move the cue ball backwards a bit and do it again until you can do it properly from there. Then move the cue ball backwards a bit and do it again until you can do it properly from there. Like a progressive drill."

DOH! I side stepped that suggestion and completely forgot about it until you mentioned it here again. I guess it's "back to the drawing board"..sid

Rod
08-31-2004, 03:24 PM
Ah nah, as much as you've played, just back off speed until solid hits return. As a matter of fact anyone should do that. The exception is newer players and I imagine that's why it's written that way. To help people from killing themselves, or breaking property. LOL

Besides you can't convince some players to back off let alone newer players. They just have to whack em and learn the hard way. When they lose a set, game, or match they start to wonder. Hmm, maybe there is something to hitting balls square. 5 years later,(light bulb comes on again) humm, that guy might have been right.

Once people play fairly well, a big reason for loosing is lack of control. That includes the all important break and shooting shots in general to hard. For most, either one spells - disaster.

Rod

rah
09-01-2004, 09:26 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote woody_968:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr>
If people only knew how often and poor they make contact. <hr /></blockquote>

When Scott got me to work on making the cueball squat without hitting a rail my break really improved. Its amazing how much a little off center hit on the one takes away from the break. <hr /></blockquote>

"cueball squat"- please explain. I have never heard of this term!

Barbara
09-01-2004, 09:35 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote rah:</font><hr>
"cueball squat"- please explain. I have never heard of this term! <hr /></blockquote>

It means making the cueball stop dead or with very little travel after hitting the rack. AKA "sticking the cueball".

Barbara

woody_968
09-01-2004, 11:33 AM
As Barbarah has said it means making the cueball stick, or set, right after hitting the rack.

This is something that cant be practiced without hitting something, be it a normal rack or a "break rack", although I guess you could do it with a single ball but the reaction may be a bit different.

IMO the entire goal is to hit the cueball with NO spin at all. Just hitting the cueball up and down the table will tell you if you have applied right or left english, but you must have a ball to contact to find out if you put draw or follow on the cueball.

Didnt mean to get off of your question, I realise some of this is still in response to if a break rack could help make someones break better. The more I think about it the more I think it could be helpfull.

Woody

GeorgeV
09-01-2004, 04:38 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote RUNaRAK:</font><hr> George,

If you miss the ball completely and hit the cable, you need more work on your stroke before considering the Breakrak.
<hr /></blockquote>

Did I say anything about missing the ball completely? No.

Just about everybody who wants to improve their break is trying to learn to control the cue while getting a good spread. If you don't already have control of the cue all the time, sometimes it's gonna go whacky AFTER HITTING THE HEAD BALL. I'm not knocking the product at all. I just asked what happens when you don't get a perfectly square hit on the head ball.

RunaRak, if you ALWAYS get a square hit on the head ball, then you don't need the BreakRak. You're perfect!

ceebee
09-02-2004, 01:59 PM
The BreakRAK is designed to simulate a Rack of Balls. The Cue Ball's response, after impact, is very near perfect.

The BreakRAK offers you the luxury of repetition, because it resets itself for you to immediately fire away at the Rack again.

Being able to IMMEDIATELY make refinements in your grip, posture, stance or stroke is a big help in learning the proper way of doing things.

If you miss-hit the BreakRAK or a real Rack of Balls badly, the response will be the same.... very negative.

GeorgeV
09-02-2004, 03:37 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote ceebee:</font><hr>
If you miss-hit the BreakRAK or a real Rack of Balls badly, the response will be the same.... very negative. <hr /></blockquote>

That's what I thought -- and that's okay. Controlling the cue ball is more important than POWER anyway.

Pelican
09-02-2004, 10:52 PM
It works for it's intended purpose, plain and simple. I have had one for a couple of months and get compliments on my break now. This is on a full rack of 15 not 9 ball.

Later, Pel

Chris Cass
09-02-2004, 11:11 PM
Tap, Tap, Tap.

C.C.

#### leonard
09-07-2004, 07:18 AM
Paul a splended endorsement that received notta reply. That is what makes golf the game and not pool.

The inventor put his money where his mouth was.####