PDA

View Full Version : knowing your angle



Stretch
09-02-2004, 04:52 PM
It's so easy for me to stand a little wrong on those funny angles. Especialy those mid range testers where your shooting at an angle off the side rail. It helped me a lot to do this.......stand behind the object ball and view down the line through the contact point to the pocket useing your cue. By looking down at the butt where it crosses the rail you have an exact spot on the rail in line with the shot. See where i'm going with this? When you stand behind the cue ball you can see the angle involved from the aiming line to object ball, and line from ob to spot on the rail. Which is the mirror image of the angle from aiming line to pocket! On certain shots, mainly those wierd angles. I find i can see this angle better and align myself better to the shot when a quick look at this spot tells me if i'm standing just right or i need to take a little more off the object ball to make it.

Do any of you people use this aiming line spot for a reference when setting up? If not you might like to try it out and see what you think. St

Barbara
09-02-2004, 05:08 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Stretch:</font><hr> stand behind the object ball and view down the line through the contact point to the pocket useing your cue. By looking down at the butt where it crosses the rail you have an exact spot on the rail in line with the shot. See where i'm going with this?

<font color="blue">Acutally, I'm lost. Can you use the http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/9egg/ table to diagram what your'e referencing? I'm a little slow today, sorry St</font color>

When you stand behind the cue ball you can see the angle involved from the aiming line to object ball, and line from ob to spot on the rail. Which is the mirror image of the angle from aiming line to pocket! On certain shots, mainly those wierd angles. I find i can see this angle better and align myself better to the shot when a quick look at this spot tells me if i'm standing just right or i need to take a little more off the object ball to make it.

Do any of you people use this aiming line spot for a reference when setting up? If not you might like to try it out and see what you think. St

<hr /></blockquote>

Thanks Dude, good to see you back as a regular again!! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Barbara

Ross
09-03-2004, 12:37 PM
I think Stretch is talking about a sitution like this:

START(%IL9L8%Pb8D2%QN8I4%RI8M9%UR6D0%VD2Z5%WD2O7%X a9D6)END

Angles A and B are the same, and he is saying that he can visualize angle A easier than B. That is my impression at least.

By the way, the shot I diagrammed (with cb close to the rail) is overcut regularly, even by A players. I don't know if it is because of difficulty in judging the angle or because of bridging at an angle on the rail. I think it is the latter - it causes subtle body alignment shifts or a misperception of the center of the cb, leading to a masse effect.

bocepz
09-03-2004, 03:35 PM
I dont use that type of technique for aiming. Although I'm a little confused about the exact way that you described, I assume it's for aiming.

A lot of people tend to get annoyed when someone takes longer than 20 seconds to aim for EVERY shot. In some tournaments, the time taken for thinking and aiming is limited.

My aiming technique is using an imaginary line from the pocket (or other endpoint such as one used for combo shots) to the contact point. But the line of aim connecting the endpoint and the contact point has to be through the center of the target ball. That's where I aim by positioning my cue stick straight toward that contact point behind the cue ball (the cue also points through the center of the cue ball with no english used, otherwise parallel to the imaginary line connecting the center of the cue ball and the contact point).

As I have been getting a hang of that technique, I can picture the line of aim in less than 2 seconds for most shots and maximum of 5 seconds for any shots.

-Ant

Rod
09-03-2004, 05:09 PM
[ QUOTE ]
A lot of people tend to get annoyed when someone takes longer than 20 seconds to aim for EVERY shot. In some tournaments, the time taken for thinking and aiming is limited.
<hr /></blockquote>

Too bad people get annoyed, what's the hurry? Even the pro's have a 30 sec shot clock and that is usually for TV. During the tourney it can take much longer. As I recall the US open didn't use a shot clock.

I've never figured why people think you have to get shots off like a rabbit. For those that do, go ahead, be my guest. I'm not slow by any means nor am I fast but some people are real slow and some are real fast.

I think the poster eluded to "certain shots" not "every" shot. What tournament has you shooting 20 sec shots?

Rod

Stretch
09-03-2004, 08:41 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bocepz:</font><hr> I dont use that type of technique foraiming. Although I'm a little confused about the exact way that you described, I assume it's for aiming.

A lot of people tend to get annoyed when someone takes longer than 20 seconds to aim for EVERY shot. In some tournaments, the time taken for thinking and aiming is limited.

My aiming technique is using an imaginary line from the pocket (or other endpoint such as one used for combo shots) to the contact point. But the line of aim connecting the endpoint and the contact point has to be through the center of the target ball. That's where I aim by positioning my cue stick straight toward that contact point behind the cue ball (the cue also points through the center of the cue ball with no english used, otherwise parallel to the imaginary line connecting the center of the cue ball and the contact point).

As I have been getting a hang of that technique, I can picture the line of aim in less than 2 seconds for most shots and maximum of 5 seconds for any shots.

-Ant <hr /></blockquote>
"But the line of aim connecting the endpoint and the contact point has to be through the center of the target ball. That's where I aim by positioning my cue stick straight toward that contact point behind the cue ball (the cue also points through the center of the cue ball with no english used, otherwise parallel to the imaginary line connecting the center of the cue ball and the contact point)."

This is probably spliting hairs, but just for the sake of argument /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif If you aim the centre of the cue ball at the contact point, you will hit the ball a wee too thick, sometimes enough to miss. Most shooters will use a little outside english on angles which negates the tendency to hit to thick just because of this. This angle visualization i see for "certain" shoots dosn't take much time at all. It's part of my pre-shot routine to go look down the line from contact point to pocket anyway, but by extending that imaginary line back to the rail, it makes determining the angle better when your standing behind the cue ball. If your shooting anything more than a 45 deg. angle for instance, your not aiming on a spot on the ob anyway are you? So your now shooting "the angle", and that's where setup and stance is key. St

bocepz
09-06-2004, 07:00 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr>Too bad people get annoyed, what's the hurry? Even the pro's have a 30 sec shot clock and that is usually for TV. During the tourney it can take much longer. As I recall the US open didn't use a shot clock.

I think the poster eluded to "certain shots" not "every" shot. What tournament has you shooting 20 sec shots?<hr /></blockquote>

I feel the need to clarify my statements to sensitive people such as yourself.

First of all, I know for a fact that a lot of people do find it irritating when their opponents take too much time preparing the shot. And by no means I intended to say that it is a bad habit nor it should be avoided. And based on my assumption alone due to the need for aim calculation from the opposite side, the aiming technique that Stretch suggested spends quite some time before the shot is actually executed.

Second of all, it is good that you can bring up a tournament's 30-second time limit. I myself have no idea what the exact time limit is for tournaments. As far as I know, some tournaments do limit the time for each shot (just like what I mentioned in my earlier post). I'd like to know what makes you assume that I play in some tournaments with 20 second time limit, unless it was merely a childish sacrasm. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Note: I mostly play in bars where money is at stake. I'm thinking about joining the tournaments, and I'm still at large regarding specific tournament rules. The part that I know some tournaments limit the shot time, I learned from some of the tournaments shown on the ESPN channel.

And last, I'd like to apologize if any of my posts sound offensive to anyone. I might have disagreed to someone's idea or might have expressed ideas opposed to someone else's. However, I'm in no place to say what is good or bad that anyone has his/her own way of judgement.

bocepz
09-06-2004, 07:50 PM
I agree with you in about the part that it doesn't work on thin angles. I must have forgotten to include it in my post. Thank you for bringing it up.

I would like to add to your statement regarding the use of english to create "throw" spin to the object ball to aid the shot. Throw shots will only be useful when the cue ball is hit with smooth speed. Too fast and the spin wont be transferred enough, while too light and the cue ball might not reach its target. Too little english wont do any good either. Also, the distance between the cue ball to the target ball shouldn't be too far or else the cue ball wont have enough spins to throw the target ball by the time it hits. I learned this first from Robert Byrnes's "Advanced Technique in Pool and Billiards" as well as plenty of experiments.

A throw shot is not only useful to aid cut shots, it is also useful to hit and make a ball at an impossible angle (such that a cut is needed to make a ball but another ball is somewhat covering the proper contact point). I use it plenty to cheat the pocket. Things to consider about throw shot is not only by how much the object ball is thrown, but also by how much the cue ball will squirt. Squirt is the term I used to describe the cue ball's path traveling slightly off the intended line of aim when english is used to some extent. The amount of both squirt and throw varies depending on a lot of things including the type of shaft and the surface of the balls. Knowing this, I wouldn't recommend it to beginners who start to learn the use of english. I believe it is good to know, but not good to use in serious learning (serious learning of trick shots doesn't count) /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif.

To anyone who would like to talk about throw and squirt in more detail, please post a new topic rather than going off Stretch's original topic.

At last, I'd like to let you know that I'm still somewhat confused about your technique that I was blindly assuming it will take quite some time to perform. I may have a better idea if you perhaps come up with some kind of graphical interpretation of it. And I love learning new stuff about pool.

-Ant

inofficial glossary:
throw - the target ball runs slightly off the line supposedly be based on the contact point with the cue ball due to the transfer of spin (the push of the spin to be exact) from the cue ball

squirt - the cue ball travels slightly off the line of aim because it is hit a distance away from the center horizontally; an extreme version of this is one that you see in a miscue

cheat the pocket - making use the size of the pocket by sinking balls toward the edge of the pocket rather than the center of it to get a better positioning on the cue ball for the subsequent shot

Rod
09-06-2004, 08:00 PM
Sure, "some" people find it irritating. If it's not to long or doesn't happen on every shot it's accepted in most tourneys. You'll find in most tourneys nothing is ever said or enforced for that matter. Exception, is one who always takes a long time. Outside of that it all balances out.

I've run hundreds of them, people play at all speeds. One thing I did though is start a match ASAP if there known slow players on either side or on teams. An efficent TD has everything to do with how long a tourney takes. I've told them to speed up and it might help for a while. Some people make honey pouring in January seem fast. LOL

No big deal, on one hand I don't care for real slow players. On the other I don't care for people that are frustrated and get pushy. (slow down and smell the roses) It's considered ok if a person takes a bit longer once in a while. They do it from pro's all the way down.

In our society today, big cities/towns are worst. People are in a hurry to go nowhere. They want everything fast, if that doesn't happen, it's a panic. Like the lady behind me at the bank. I thought she was going to have a panic attack waiting for a teller. You should have heard the snorting, comments, deap breaths etc. I was betting she wasn't going to make it. She did but if it had been a minute longer, she wouldn't have. LOL Another thing that happens to people is 20 seconds turns into 1 minute. 1 minute turns into 3 minutes etc. I've seen it all before, no big deal if they want to get hyper, fine. I pay less attention.

This wasn't directed at you, because I don't know you, just some people in general. It was your comment about time that started the wheels turning.

Rod

Stretch
09-07-2004, 04:17 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ross:</font><hr> I think Stretch is talking about a sitution like this:

START(%IL9L8%Pb8D2%QN8I4%RI8M9%UR6D0%VD2Z5%WD2O7%X a9D6)END

Angles A and B are the same, and he is saying that he can visualize angle A easier than B. That is my impression at least.

By the way, the shot I diagrammed (with cb close to the rail) is overcut regularly, even by A players. I don't know if it is because of difficulty in judging the angle or because of bridging at an angle on the rail. I think it is the latter - it causes subtle body alignment shifts or a misperception of the center of the cb, leading to a masse effect. <hr /></blockquote>

Hi Ross. Unfortunately i can't use the wie table to see your diagram but by the sounds of it, you understand the angles involved. On the angle shots away from the side rail. They are real tricky for the reasons you so aptly described. By looking along the contact to pocket line on the ob and extending that back to the cushion you have a point that when looked at from behind the cueball tells you if your allignment to the object ball is correct.

Here's what can happen on funny angles. You go down and look from the object ball to the pocket and get a good fix on the contact point for the shot. Now do you freeze your eye on that the whole time while you go back around to behind the cue ball? Or do you take your eye off the ob untill you've set up behind the cue ball, and start sighting in for the shot. If you've taken your eye off the ob's contact point, how do you know you can see the exact spot again when you are now looking at it from a different perspective from behind the cue ball? Well i find the line by seeing that the object ball's contact point is in a direct line between the pocket and the spot on the rail. Then the angle just "appears", and I'm grooved in for the shot. St

Stretch
09-07-2004, 04:48 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr> Sure, "some" people find it irritating. If it's not to long or doesn't happen on every shot it's accepted in most tourneys. You'll find in most tourneys nothing is ever said or enforced for that matter. Exception, is one who always takes a long time. Outside of that it all balances out.

I've run hundreds of them, people play at all speeds. One thing I did though is start a match ASAP if there known slow players on either side or on teams. An efficent TD has everything to do with how long a tourney takes. I've told them to speed up and it might help for a while. Some people make honey pouring in January seem fast. LOL

No big deal, on one hand I don't care for real slow players. On the other I don't care for people that are frustrated and get pushy. (slow down and smell the roses) It's considered ok if a person takes a bit longer once in a while. They do it from pro's all the way down.

In our society today, big cities/towns are worst. People are in a hurry to go nowhere. They want everything fast, if that doesn't happen, it's a panic. Like the lady behind me at the bank. I thought she was going to have a panic attack waiting for a teller. You should have heard the snorting, comments, deap breaths etc. I was betting she wasn't going to make it. She did but if it had been a minute longer, she wouldn't have. LOL Another thing that happens to people is 20 seconds turns into 1 minute. 1 minute turns into 3 minutes etc. I've seen it all before, no big deal if they want to get hyper, fine. I pay less attention.

This wasn't directed at you, because I don't know you, just some people in general. It was your comment about time that started the wheels turning.

Rod <hr /></blockquote>

Hi Rod. I always enjoy reading your contributions. So after your post all i can say is "time is the fire which we burn. Patience is the temperature control". St~~not too fast, not too slow, juuuuuust right:)"

Rod
09-07-2004, 05:45 PM
I like that!